I finally got it. I finally know what women is thinking

[JasonRox]

I'd like to point out that you probably weren't even born that year. It is also almost a sure bet that my longest romantic affair lasted at least twice as long as anything you've ever been involved in. I've also probably had a great deal more of them than you. But please, don't let that prevent you from lecturing me. It's sort of amusing.

I think I finally figured out why you seem so clueless about some things I bring up. You probably think the entire world is like a university, where 98% of the people you meet every day fit these criteria:

1. within 4 years of your age
2. single
3. from at least a remotely similar socio-economic background,
4. have similar education, and
5. none are married.

Moreover, you see the same people every day, or at least every week when you go to class.

Not one of those things is generally true outside school. Not one.

Say you are out in the real world. First off, half the population is over the age of 60 or under the age of 20. Half of them have never been to college. The only people you run into regularly are those you work with, and that is Absolutely Verboten. People do it all the time, but people also have unprotected sex with relative strangers fairly often, too. If anything goes wrong, you just hosed your career.

On average, you might run into someone not married, from the same general background, not from work and otherwise a possible fit about once a week. It usually happens somewhere like the supermarket.

Now, assume you approach this person just like everyone else and have a nice chat. You put no particular effort into flirting with them. Do you get a phone number? Certainly not if you just treat them like everyone else. You wouldn't ask a guy behind you for HIS phone number, so why would you ask her if you treated her just like everyone else?

Newsflash: the odds are you will never see that person again. You cannot pick up where you left off and let things evolve "naturally". Real life does not work that way. If you don't have a phone number after the five minutes you spend discussing the papers on the checkout line, it's over. (Note: I've never gotten a phone number in a situation like that, nor have I ever asked.)

Surprisingly enough, she knows this too. It's funny how that works, isn't it? The moment you say anything at all, you're "flirting". If you aren't, she probably is. You can either play along or walk away. Those are your options.

Now, the ONE place you can go which, like a college campus, is likely to be filled with singles of approximately the right age (even if the match isn't nearly as close) is a singles bar. I've never frequented them, but I imagine they are even more artificial than the checkout line. People go to them with the expressed intent of flirting. I expect that's about all your going to get in one of them.

You could, of course, join a poetry group, take pottery classes, or do something of that nature. At least there is an excuse other than flirting to deal with other people, even if the age range and marital status isn't going to be all that great. But you know what? The only difference from the checkout line is that you'll see the same people repeatedly. Otherwise it's exactly the same: the instant assumption is that if you look like a possible match, that's the primary reason you're talking to her instead of someone else in the class.

So, you see, your solution of "just talking to them and waiting for something to happen" isn't going to work very well outside a campus. You will never see them again, and therefore nothing will ever happen. You can certainly try that approach by frequenting a bar or similar venue, but you aren't going to be "just talking to them". Such places are not conducive to that, not at all.

[edited to add] There's a few other people here around my age. Ask one of them. There are other options I didn't cover (e.g., cocktail parties, weddings, funerals, etc.), but the trick to most of those things is you're supposed to bring a date or spouse. No matter who you hit on there, you're hitting on someone else's date. It's considered exceptionally poor form, and you are unlikely to be invited back.

Well, I ignored your post as soon as you assumed that I meet everyone on campus or something silly.

I meet girls everywhere! And guys too!

I took a trip out of town once, and chatted with about 3 girls in two nights. They had nothing to do with why I was there as well.

Note: I got a contact information with one girl as I did not sit there and day dream about it in a checkout line.

I literally meet people everywhere. So, your point, I don't see.

 

[JasonRox]

Newsflash: the odds are you will never see that person again. You cannot pick up where you left off and let things evolve "naturally". Real life does not work that way. If you don't have a phone number after the five minutes you spend discussing the papers on the checkout line, it's over. (Note: I've never gotten a phone number in a situation like that, nor have I ever asked.)

If you know this happens, why don't you just ASK? Ever thought of that one. Then you sit here complaining about girls doing nothing when you're doing nothing yourself. Like come on. You know this happens and you doing nothing about it.

Why don't you ask them out for lunch right there and now? Not spontaneous enough? Do something besides stand there and dreaming about it. If you lack success, it's probably because you lack doing anything at all.

You had long term relationships. Who freaking cares? Understanding girls has nothing to do with seniority! I see married men, and long term relationship guys that don't know **** about girls or sometimes their own girlfriend! So, your argument to understanding girls more than I because you've been in long term relationships already shows how naive you are about girls and how little you know about them.

 

[JasonRox]

[edited to add] There's a few other people here around my age. Ask one of them. There are other options I didn't cover (e.g., cocktail parties, weddings, funerals, etc.), but the trick to most of those things is you're supposed to bring a date or spouse. No matter who you hit on there, you're hitting on someone else's date. It's considered exceptionally poor form, and you are unlikely to be invited back.

If you got game, it's not poor form.

If there is a girl I want, and she has her boyfriend right there, I know what to do to get her interests. The guy won't even know it. It's because everyone thinks everyone should be obvious. But you can send subtle messages that show interests, and sometimes sexual ones too, while no one else sees it but that girl. That's the key. That's what I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about hitting on them out in the open. I find that to be the least effective. You want girls to enjoy talking to you without sometimes them even knowing why, but eventually they find out why and they love it.

Why? Because you make them feel good.

Note: Direct compliments don't sound as sincere as indirect ones.

How to become good at indirect compliments?

Well, that comes from talking to girls a lot. Being comfortable with yourself. Learning how to communicate effectively. Having a good value system. That's how it goes.

 

[verty]

If there is a girl I want, and she has her boyfriend right there, I know what to do to get her interests.

I think this is perfectly acceptable. If a girl/woman is so loosely attached that she would be interested and stolen or whatever, then so be it. If that is the case, it was a lie to begin with so why be upset?

It's your partner cheats, why be upset? You learned more than you knew before. The upsetting part is when it has gone on for years in secret.

That is where I draw the line. Competition is fine but if you are lying to score then you are depraved. It's one thing to tell people what they want to hear, to compliment them etc, but to blatantly lie because you want to use them is morally reprehensible. (I'm not accusing, just using the 2nd person mode of speech.)

 

[ShawnD]

Why? Because you make them feel good.

Translation: talk about them, not yourself

edit: that also means try not to relate by telling a story about yourself after she says something. "oh yeah i know what you mean. this one time..." is not good.

 

[JasonRox]

I think this is perfectly acceptable. If a girl/woman is so loosely attached that she would be interested and stolen or whatever, then so be it. If that is the case, it was a lie to begin with so why be upset?

It's your partner cheats, why be upset? You learned more than you knew before. The upsetting part is when it has gone on for years in secret.

That is where I draw the line. Competition is fine but if you are lying to score then you are depraved. It's one thing to tell people what they want to hear, to compliment them etc, but to blatantly lie because you want to use them is morally reprehensible. (I'm not accusing, just using the 2nd person mode of speech.)

I totally agree.

 

[Evo]

I totally agree.

Until the day the boyfriend/husband guns you down.

Enjoy being young and having a large number of "possibilities". Believe me it will not last. Ask anyone single here over 25 how the dating pool is. Also hitting on someone's boyfriend or girlfriend will eventually lead to trouble, I don't advise it.

 

[ShawnD]

I'm only 21 and the dating pool is already crap. Lately I've just been finding women on websites like okcupid, myspace, and nexopia. The okcupid ones are the best quality if anybody cares.

The dance club is sort of like a lottery. There's a 1 in 10 chance you'll sleep with somebody who turns into a girlfriend. The other 9 are crazy, rude, or cheating on their boyfriend. Then there's the probability of actually getting a girl at the club, which may vary.

 

[JasonRox]

Until the day the boyfriend/husband guns you down.

Enjoy being young and having a large number of "possibilities". Believe me it will not last. Ask anyone single here over 25 how the dating pool is. Also hitting on someone's boyfriend or girlfriend will eventually lead to trouble, I don't advise it.

I never said hitting on them. It's not even obvious. The person you are "hitting" on might even know.

I don't really want to explain, but no I do not hit on girls that have boyfriends. I just talk with them. That alone can turn them on. That's what I'm saying.

The dating pool is small sure, but how many people out there over 25 have terrible partners? A lot! So, by simply talking to them, you can score some points.

Everyone is so crazy about finding a single person to talk to because talking to someone who isn't single is not ok. That's just lame. Insecure people and insecure relationships are the norm these days. Lame.

 

[JasonRox]

I'm only 21 and the dating pool is already crap. Lately I've just been finding women on websites like okcupid, myspace, and nexopia. The okcupid ones are the best quality if anybody cares.

The dance club is sort of like a lottery. There's a 1 in 10 chance you'll sleep with somebody who turns into a girlfriend. The other 9 are crazy, rude, or cheating on their boyfriend. Then there's the probability of actually getting a girl at the club, which may vary.

What?!

I'm 23 and they're everywhere.

 

[Moonbear]

What?!

I'm 23 and they're everywhere.

It depends on where you live. When I lived on the east coast, there were plenty of single people into the 30s, and people were mostly only starting to get married after college in their mid-20s. When I moved to the midwest, things suddenly changed, and the culture there is that people are married much younger...and have kids already too. Trying to find single people was really hard. Now I live in a town where there seem to be a lot of single women, but it's hard to find single men in their late-20s or 30s. The men all seem to move here already married. I'm sure there are single men, but I just don't know where they go (there are definitely a lot of younger single men, so the dating scene for people under 25 still looks pretty good).

 

[JasonRox]

It depends on where you live. When I lived on the east coast, there were plenty of single people into the 30s, and people were mostly only starting to get married after college in their mid-20s. When I moved to the midwest, things suddenly changed, and the culture there is that people are married much younger...and have kids already too. Trying to find single people was really hard. Now I live in a town where there seem to be a lot of single women, but it's hard to find single men in their late-20s or 30s. The men all seem to move here already married. I'm sure there are single men, but I just don't know where they go (there are definitely a lot of younger single men, so the dating scene for people under 25 still looks pretty good).

I'll take that argument.

But, I still have to say that if the girl is taken, it's still doable.

 

[Astronuc]

Two cousins of mine (they are actually twins) and their respective ex-husbands. One of them met her ex on a plane...talk about an unusual place to ask someone out.

Being on a plane is a social venue. If one flies coast-to-coast or internationally, one could spend 5 or more hours sitting next to one or two people.

I think she only went out with him initially because she was surprised to be asked on a plane (and he is a very good looking guy, but turned out to be a control freak).

There are all kinds of personalities. One purpose of dating is to learn about the other person - besides having someone with whom one can socialize.

. . . more interested in the idea of getting married rather than who it was they were getting married to, . . .

Unfortunately, that seems rather common - and may be a major contributing factor to the high divorce rate. Another factor is that of personality disorders, such as the need to control the other person in a relationship, or the need for someone to be deceptive. In dating, in addition to having a good time, one should be learning about the other - family history, interests, education, aspirations, integrity, and so on.

Of course, there are those who simply settle for a casual relationship or a good time, and nothing more. Most of my male friends and some female were this way. I believe all have been divorced at least once, and many are now single.

in defense of writing personal poems, Snodgrass said, "The only reality which [a poet] can ever surely know is that self he cannot help being. ... . "

William DeWitt Snodgrass (poet) One can only be sure of oneself, and one can never know with full certainty what another is thinking. The best one can do is be honest and forthright, and hopefully find another who is also honest and forthright.

Each person is an exception to the rule, so for men to generalize about women or women about men is counterproductive.

 

[Moonbear]

But, I still have to say that if the girl is taken, it's still doable.

I stick with the theory that if someone is so easily persuaded to leave a marriage for you, then they will be just as easily persuaded to leave you for the next person who comes along. And, if they are already unhappy in their marriage, they ought to have the guts to get a divorce before they start roaming. So, while you can find people that way, you have to think about what you're going to get.

 

[ShawnD]

[rush to get married] seems rather common - and may be a major contributing factor to the high divorce rate.

It's understandable though. Every time I meet a fun girl, she's already in a relationship, so she goes into the friend pile which keeps getting bigger and bigger. It's incredibly hard to find a single girl who is fun to be with, so the only thing to do is latch on when it is feasible to do so.
I have about 6 female friends and 5 male friends. The women are ages 18, 19, 20, 22, and 22. Of those 6 women, the only ones not in serious relationships right now are 18 and 22. Only 1 of my male friends is in a relationship.

Finding a partner is like shopping on Boxing Day. You need to get stuff early and fast or you'll be left searching through the crap nobody else wants.


edit: this sort of plays into the original topic at hand. Those female friends are dating people because women are aggressive. The male friends are still single because they sit back and wait for things to just happen. I try to make things happen but it doesn't work when all I can meet are women who are already taken.

 

[Moonbear]

Finding a partner is like shopping on Boxing Day. You need to get stuff early and fast or you'll be left searching through the crap nobody else wants.

Or, it could be like finding a valuable antique at a garage sale, ready to be tossed away by someone who doesn't appreciate its value. I just keep telling people I've skipped the first divorce so many people in my generation have gone through, and will eventually find a nice divorced guy whose first wife simply didn't appreciate his dedication to work (workaholics aren't for everyone, and spending too much time at the office rather than at home can be a big factor in breaking up marriages).

 

[JasonRox]

Or, it could be like finding a valuable antique at a garage sale, ready to be tossed away by someone who doesn't appreciate its value. I just keep telling people I've skipped the first divorce so many people in my generation have gone through, and will eventually find a nice divorced guy whose first wife simply didn't appreciate his dedication to work (workaholics aren't for everyone, and spending too much time at the office rather than at home can be a big factor in breaking up marriages).

True, and that's unfortunate.

I know this might sound obvious to some people, but the partner you want is obviously someone you appreciate, but as well as you want to spend genuine time together. What I mean by genuine it isn't something you just do.

For example, couples might say "I love you" consistently at certain times, but then after awhile it just becomes routine. It just seems less genuine after awhile. I like it more when my girlfriend tells me she loves me spontaneously rather than like before bed or something. It feels more real. I do same as well.

Like, I went out last night. Girlfriend wasn't there, but I wanted her to be there. It just seems like some people don't feel that way about there partner. Or whenever something happens, she's the first person I want to tell.

Things like that.

Anyways, I'm having fun in my relationship. She's definitely worth a lot to me.