Innovative Evolution of the Bamboo-Eating Pandas: A Unique Survival Strategy

[sophiecentaur]

TL;DR Summary

A discussion how pandas, despite looking ridiculous, could be regarded as a pretty successful species. A very simple example of Darwinism at work.

Once you have got over the 'cute' appearance of pandas the temptation to regard them as a shouldn't be allowed, nonsense species.

However, their evolution can actually be seen as a an inovative step towards. They have, apparently, been around for three million years so they are successful. You could almost regard them as a form of extremophiles. They are the only mammals that manage on a diet of just bamboo shoots. Where's the advantage in that? Bamboo is such a dominant species that it inhibits all other major plant species. Nothing else competes for such a frugal food source and their population density is low. There's nothing else to eat in a bamboo forest but bamboo and panda meat and the distance between pandas is too great to make it worth while for predators to venture far into bamboo forests - just on the offchance of finding a single prey species..

So pandas 'just survive ' on a very limited diet, which is theirs alone. Furthermore, why should they look so ridiculous? Imo it's because they need to see each other from a distance and you'd admit they are very visible. But there are no predators to spot them - just other pandas with (so the zoos have found) low fertility.

 

[berkeman]

Well, when you're lucky enough to be born in a place where you have no natural predators, maybe just looking cute works...

https://wwf.panda.org/discover/know...t_panda/panda/kung_fu_panda_enemies_defences/

 

[BillTre]

Their cuteness has endowed them with a human based range expansion, into zoos on other continents.
This is less likely to happen to such a extent with a less cute species.

Some pets and lab animals have been really successful in this way. Zebrafish (Danio rerio) came from India

and are now found (and bred) in laboratories, as well as in fish farms and homes on six of the seven continents. No zoogeographical limitations on them!

 

[Vanadium 50]

One can make a similar argument to a lesser extent with koalas and eucalyptus leaves.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Well, when you're lucky enough to be born in a place where you have no natural predators, maybe just looking cute works...

https://wwf.panda.org/discover/know...t_panda/panda/kung_fu_panda_enemies_defences/

I was trying to distinguish between luck and evolution. These guys have not changed for millions of years so there must be both feeding advantages and lack of predation. By growing up in a bamboo forest, they needed to develop the right digestive system. Lack of predators gave them time to do that. Maybe the species moved away from the edge of the bamboo into a monoculture and, double whammy, they were predated less.

There are not many examples of such a relatively simple environment where the (dominant) variables can account for the resulting evolution. there are many 'cute' looking species which couldn't get away with just looking cute when predators are around every corner.

Their appearance needs to be explained away somehow and being seen by potential mates and parents / offspring is more important than not being seen by predators. The fact that we find them 'cute' says as much about us as about them. But that's all to do with recognising similarities between us and them and possibly the shock value of such a weird creature that looks so totally harmless. (But they can bite.)

Despite the smartness of finding their niche, they are really stuck in it and, unlike many herbivors, they are unlikely to cope with their changing environment fast enough.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Their cuteness has endowed them with a human based range expansion, into zoos on other continents.
This is less likely to happen to such a extent with a less cute species.

Yes. That was a useful extra factor. Same could be said for the tobacco plant!!!!

 

[Rive]

There's nothing else to eat in a bamboo forest but bamboo and panda meat

Just for the log: pandas are still mid-sized bears, around the same build as black bears.
Those claws and canines are no joke, whatever 'cute' is all the rest...

 

[sophiecentaur]

Those claws and canines are no joke,

Yes. They are big and not to be messed with. It's true that, once an animal has survived to a certain size then the number of possible predators drops. Baby pandas are incredibly small and vulnerable but they stick with mum until they are are a more viable size. That's another evolutionary thing (choice) which affects reproductive rate.

The arms race between animals often relates to reproductive competition as well as defence from predators so big teeth and claws may actually not actually indicate the presence of large predators. It's often boys scrapping in front of girls to impress future mates.

This whole panda thing is just the tip of an iceberg and it just struck me as a comparatively simple discussion point for considering the how and where species manage to thrive. I imagine there are species in similar isolated conditions where the web of interactions is also relatively easy to appreciate. There's no way you could even start to appreciate what goes on amongst the predators and prey out on the African Plains.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Those claws and canines are no joke, whatever 'cute' is all the rest...

Koala claws are not to be messed with either. Cute animals, but they are ill-tempered and have sharp, pointy bits.

The arms race between animals often relates to reproductive competition as well as defence from predators

Evolution works on the four F's - fight, flight, feeding and reproduction.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Koala claws are not to be messed with either. Cute animals, but they are ill-tempered and have sharp, pointy bits.

Evolution works on the four F's - fight, flight, feeding and reproduction.

It's good to be able to minimise the impact of whichever of those you can. e.g. having a large, protective mum.

I don't know a lot about Koalas but living in trees is an advantage. I've seen footage of rescued koalas in the recent fires; they are not great runners!

 

[Vanadium 50]

Koalas aren't great anythings. They spend most of their waking hours shoveling low-grade food into their mouths. Like pandas, they have found a niche, but a consequence of this niche is they need to eat constantly to get enough calories. This is why they are so bad tempered - anything that interrupts their eating is literally life-threatening.

 

[sophiecentaur]

So pretty similar circs. I guess some of that cuteness is in common and perhaps due to their slow and non-threatening movement.

Then there are sloths . . . . .

 

[Vanadium 50]

Cuteness may be due to being proportioned like human infants. The diet may make them chubby and their arboreal lifestyle may make them almost bipedal.

Termites just eat one thing and they are not cute.

 

[BillTre]

Termites just eat one thing and they are not cute.

So do ticks, fleas, tapeworms, or Urechis unicinctus (known as the penis fish). They are not cute either.

 

[sophiecentaur]

There are many secies that don't have the same venn diagram. The only common venn space is the final f.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Termites just eat one thing and they are not cute.

Termites spend a lot of their input energy in defending themselves against predators. Panda-like niches are actually pretty rare.

 

[256bits]

Despite the smartness of finding their niche, they are really stuck in it and, unlike many herbivors,

They would eat meat and other protein foods if readily available, which it isn't.
They do have the 'basic' short digestive system of carnivores , even after millions of years of evolution that has not adapted to host bacteria able to efficiently break down plant cellulose.
The problem is that they would be more or less defenseless against 'jungle' predators due to their size and not so fast movability.

Did the early pandas find the bamboo more tasty, or did they move to the bamboo forest to escape predators?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Did the early pandas find the bamboo more tasty,

Evolution is often (always?) faster when there's a change in circumstances. So I'd suggest that something happened to an original set of food sources (selective plant disease or arrival of a plague of insects), leaving the choice between moving home or get used to all that's left: danged bamboo leaves. Panda digestion is only just good enough, as it is.

I have a feeling that this thread has a few too many personal theories to survive much longer. The species will probably die out soon, due to predation my the mods. But it's been an interesting dalliance for the Christmas season.

 

[Rive]

I have a feeling that this thread has a few too many personal theories to survive much longer.

Actually, as I've just checked the evolution of the panda lineage is quite interesting as-is, even without any personal theories.
They are surprisingly old (among bears, at least).

 

[256bits]

Personal theories?? Where?
Some mild supposition perhaps - an idea may be true, although uncertainty of proof warrants discussion.
Any Panda expert available?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Any Panda expert available?

She went back to China, I believe.