Integral for work done leading to potential energy sign confusion

In summary, the discussion revolves around the application of integrals to calculate work done in the context of potential energy. It highlights the potential confusion arising from the signs associated with work and energy, emphasizing the importance of understanding the direction of forces and displacements to avoid misinterpretation of results.
  • #1
Ebby
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Homework Statement
What is the work done by gravity in moving the particle from a distance of infinity to a distance R from the centre of the Earth (where R > the radius of the Earth)?
Relevant Equations
W = F * r
img20231022_10310754.jpg

What is the work done by gravity in moving the particle from a distance of ##\infty## to a distance ##R## from the centre of the Earth (where ##R## > the radius of the Earth)?

The answer is obvious, since the displacement and the force of gravity are in the same direction. Therefore, gravity does positive work in the amount ##W_{grav} = GMm/R##.

However, I want to show you how I am tempted to formulate my answer wrongly, which leads to an answer of the wrong sign. I am hoping someone can explain clearly why this is wrong. I keep coming back to problems like this, and am plagued by the same confusion every time. I am hoping finally to resolve this issue in my mind!

So, we're going to use the equation generally given with the form: ##W = \int_a^b \vec F \cdot \, d\vec r##. In this particular case we have: $$W_{grav} = \int_\infty^R -\frac {GMm} {x^2} \, {\hat x} \cdot -dx \, \hat x$$
$$= \int_\infty^R \frac {GMm} {x^2} \, dx$$
$$= GMm \int_\infty^R \frac 1 {x^2} \, dx$$
$$= \frac {-GMm} {x} \left. \right |_{\infty}^R$$
$$= \frac {-GMm} {R}$$

Which is of course wrong.

Additionally, I have difficulty thinking of a force (gravity in this case) doing positive work on an object, and yet the object having less P.E. afterwards, not more. It's more intuitive for me to think of an object being "worked on" and consequently having more energy. What is a better way to think about this?

EDIT: I see that my sketch is slightly wrong. There's a ##\hat x## that needs to be the numerator, not the denominator. Anyway, all the LaTeX is fine.
 
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  • #2
There should be dx rather than -dx in the first integral. dx goes in the x-axis direction, the force is negative as it is in the opposite direction, and the direction of motion is determined by the limits of the integral.
The work is converted to the kinetic energy of the falling body.
 
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  • #3
Your problem is using the equation for work ##W = \int_a^b \vec F \cdot \, d\vec r## incorrectly. You can (a) use the "cosine" definition of work ##dW=\vec F \cdot \, d\vec r=F\,dr\,\cos\theta##, in which case you have to worry about the angle between the force and the displacement or (b) use unit vector notation but not a mix of both which is what you did. The second method is foolproof if you set it up right. Here is how:

First write the two vectors in unit vector form. I will be using the radial direction but you can easily change symbols ##r## and ##\mathbf{\hat {r}}## to ##x## and ##\mathbf{\hat {x}}##). By definition ##\mathbf{\hat {r}}## points radially out and ##r## increases in that direction which means ##d\mathbf{r}=dr~\mathbf{\hat {r}}## always. This is where you went wrong.

Next write the force and form the dot product
##\mathbf{F}=\dfrac{GmM}{r^2}(-\mathbf{\hat {r}}).##
##\mathbf{F}\cdot d\mathbf{r}=\dfrac{GmM}{r^2}(-\mathbf{\hat {r}})\cdot dr~\mathbf{\hat {r}}=-\dfrac{GmM}{r^2}dr.##
You now have the integrand, so put it under the integral sign, set the limits and integrate $$W=\int_{\infty}^R \left(-\frac{GmM}{r^2}dr\right)=\frac{GmM}{R}.$$ Note that if you were integrating the opposite way (radially out), all you would have to do is flip the limits of integration which flips the overall sign of the integral. When applied correctly, the unit vector method automatically takes care of all signs regardless of vector direction and sense of integration.
 
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  • #4
Ebby said:
It's more intuitive for me to think of an object being "worked on" and consequently having more energy.
What kind of energy? Answer: Kinetic not potential. The work energy theorem says that the change in kinetic energy is equal to the total work done on the object, ##\Delta K=W_{tot}##. In this case $$\Delta K =W_g=\frac{GMm}{R}$$ and the kinetic energy increases. The gravitational potential energy change is, by definition, the negative of the work done by gravity, $$\Delta U = - W_g=-\frac{GMm}{R}.$$ The two equations can be combined to a statement of mechanical energy conservation: $$\Delta K+\Delta U=0$$ which says that the sum of energy changes is zero, i.e. one kind of energy increases at the expense of the other. The conversion from one form to another is mediated by the conservative force which does work on the object that is either positive (increase of kinetic and decrease of potential) or negative (decrease of kinetic and increase of potential).
 
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  • #5
you don’t assign a direction to dx in the integral, that is taken care of by the order of the integration bounds. So don’t negate it twice.
 
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  • #6
Thank you. This is very helpful, especially @kuruman's explanation.
 
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FAQ: Integral for work done leading to potential energy sign confusion

What is the integral form of work done in the context of potential energy?

The integral form of work done in the context of potential energy is given by \( W = \int \vec{F} \cdot d\vec{r} \), where \( \vec{F} \) is the force vector and \( d\vec{r} \) is the differential displacement vector. This integral calculates the work done by the force as an object moves along a path.

Why is there confusion about the sign of potential energy in the work done integral?

The confusion arises because the work done by conservative forces is related to the negative change in potential energy. Mathematically, \( W = -\Delta U \), where \( U \) is the potential energy. This negative sign indicates that work done by the force decreases the potential energy of the system.

How do you determine the correct sign when calculating work done and potential energy?

To determine the correct sign, remember that if a force does work on an object, it typically decreases the object's potential energy, leading to a negative sign in the potential energy change. Conversely, if work is done against the force, the potential energy increases. Always consider the direction of the force and the displacement when setting up the integral.

Can you provide an example to illustrate the sign convention in potential energy calculations?

Consider a mass \( m \) being lifted vertically upward by a height \( h \) against gravity. The work done by the lifting force is \( W = mgh \), but the work done by gravity is \( W = -mgh \). The potential energy change \( \Delta U \) is \( mgh \), and since the work done by gravity is negative, it confirms the relationship \( W = -\Delta U \).

Is the confusion about the sign of potential energy specific to certain types of forces?

The confusion is most common with conservative forces, such as gravitational and electrostatic forces, because these forces have associated potential energies. Non-conservative forces, like friction, dissipate energy rather than store it as potential energy, so the sign convention for potential energy changes does not apply in the same way.

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