Is Cheating the Answer to Academic Frustration?

[cragar]

true cyrus, i was just surprised he says he studies and still gets bad grades but yet when he makes the cheat sheet he does better so why is his studying not getting him a descent grade on the test but yet the cheat sheet does.

 

[FrancisZ]

I've had two Russian teachers like that. One of them was older and you could smell alcohol on his breath. He was always grumpy and whenever we asked him to clarify something he'd just say "it is seemple!" and move one to the next subject.

The other one was young and cocky and treated us like idiots, but he also actually made sure we understood the concepts (in his condescending way). He always cracked me up, I miss his teaching style to be honest.

Ditto. I think it just might be a culture clash though.

All three of my Russia-born Professors were very intelligent; and I respected them for that. Two were very insensitive however.

One of those two, the lady: if you asked her a question, she'd insult you as a response. Funniest thing ever said by a Russian Professor using English though: "Guys, you need to FOCUS on the MATRICES."

With accents (Siberian or otherwise), it always comes out as "Guys...you need to Fah - cus on the Mat-tress-es!"Such intelligent, well-mannered people; and I'm such an ***! But I couldn't help laughing.

No wonder they hated me.

 

[xxChrisxx]

I find it curious how schools in the US seem to favour multiple choice style questions, yet the UK does not.

Personally I hate multiple choice questions, I have no idea why (its quite an irrational hatred) I just find them very tedious.

 

[Cyrus]

Multiple choise? Who gives a multiple choice exam in a engineering/physics course? I've never had one.

 

[rootX]

Personally I hate multiple choice questions, I have no idea why (its quite an irrational hatred) I just find them very tedious.

I only get them in my economics exams.

I hate them because sometimes questions are too vague unlike my engineering exam questions. But if you work hard, nothing is bad/tedious ...

 

[xxChrisxx]

Multiple choise? Who gives a multiple choice exam in a engineering/physics course? I've never had one.

Well I don't know the ins and outs of specific courses, I just meant the general trend of exam style (i'll admit I know 1/10 of sod all about the US system). I suppose it does depend on the subject.

I've only ever had 1 in mech eng, that was on manufacturing processes and it was a quarter of the exam. I kind of agree with open book exams though, you'd never be expected to learn any formula in the workplace.

 

[Cyrus]

I kind of agree with open book exams though, you'd never be expected to learn any formula in the workplace.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Maybe open book is the wrong way to phrase it.

When you are given a problem in an exam without a data/formula sheet requiring you to memorize things that in reality you'd simply look up in a book. Obviously this does not include fundamental formulae that everyone taking the exam should know anyway.

 

[Cyrus]

Actually, I meant the second part of the sentence, not the first.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Ah, well it kind of ties in with the first sentence. I didnt mean 'any' formula in the second. What I meant was, exams that force you to learn pages of quite specific data/facts/formula from a book, when in reality if you were working on a problem you would have the book next to you.

I didnt mean to say that you don't have to remember anything, just that you would be expected to know exactly how to use the formula in the books. My issue with this is that I have a fairly poor memory in that it takes me forever to commit things, so I find 'memory test' style exams to be quite unfair.

My missus loves them, as she can read a page of stuff once and remember it pretty much straight off.

 

[franznietzsche]

I didnt mean to say that you don't have to remember anything, just that you would be expected to know exactly how to use the formula in the books. My issue with this is that I have a fairly poor memory in that it takes me forever to commit things, so I find 'memory test' style exams to be quite unfair.

This is a silly sort of statement. Of course you can look up formula in books when you're working--that doesn't mean you should have to.

Should you fail the exam for poor memory if you know how to use the material after referencing the formulae? Maybe not. But you definitely shouldn't get as good a grade as someone who can do all of it without using a reference material. The latter person simply knows the material better. They will be able to solve problems more quickly and efficiently, and likely be able to connect related ideas more quickly because they remember them better. Fair or not, that is a fact.

 

[xxChrisxx]

This is a silly sort of statement. Of course you can look up formula in books when you're working--that doesn't mean you should have to.

Should you fail the exam for poor memory if you know how to use the material after referencing the formulae? Maybe not. But you definitely shouldn't get as good a grade as someone who can do all of it without using a reference material. The latter person simply knows the material better. They will be able to solve problems more quickly and efficiently, and likely be able to connect related ideas more quickly because they remember them better. Fair or not, that is a fact.

How on Earth is that a silly statement. The idea of an examination is to gain an indication as to how well you've understood the course material.

A memory test is utterly useless at gauging that. I can give a non engineer with a good memory several pages of stuff to memorise, they don't have to understand it or know how to use it but so long as they can regurgitate it onto the page in some sort of coherent fason they will get a decent grade. Memory exams have never been an issue for me, as I've always known I've had a crap memory and have adjusted the way I learn accordingly. It takes more time but I get the job done.

My point is that althouh I have a better understanding of the concepts of what's going on than someone else, in some (thankfully memeory test exams are unfavoured my most of the lecturers) exams they do better than I simply because they have a better memory. Another thing I've noticed is that these people can hardly ever derive a formula from first principles. It shows that they only have a superficial understanding and this is precisely what a memory test examines. You press them on the subject matter and they don't know ****.

This is why I love 'show that' questions. If you can derive the formula you get extra marks. If you can't then the people who don't have a deep understanding are not totally screwed.

I can give an analogy to what I mean (it is a more extreme case). You can teach someone to operate FEA software without them having any knowledge of what the program is acutally doing. Hell they don't even need to know what stresses or strains are so long as they have remembered a flowchart on how to operate it.

 

[Mgt3]

Can you cut the bullcrap ? If you get straight As without work, then your University is bad, it is as simple and there is nothing else.

Let's think this through rationally. Everyone has a different idea of what "work" is. For some people, work just barely being able to read through the course material. For others, it's doing practice exercises after class and the readings. Some people do practice exercises, but they do them properly and don't consider these problems "work". A highly intelligent person who completes their assignments and practice problems without too much difficulty will not feel like they have done "work" whereas another student in the same class will be pulling their hair out from the amount of difficulty the class is giving them. They won't be able to make it through the "work". Work is relative. If you love what you're doing, or, if it comes naturally, you won't be doing work. There are indeed straight A students in the sciences. These people are few and far between, but they exist.

The person who cheated might be having a hard time studying. They might be very frustrated because they haven't figured out a way to study efficiently and didn't want the record to reflect failure from an extensive amount of effort put into their courses. Such a person is under psychological duress. They aren't trying to "cheat" all of those "hardworking, more honest students". This doesn't justify cheating, although it gives you a little bit of perspective on how a person could do so without mens rea.

 

[xxChrisxx]

The person who cheated might be having a hard time studying. They might be very frustrated because they haven't figured out a way to study efficiently and didn't want the record to reflect failure from an extensive amount of effort put into their courses. Such a person is under psychological duress. They aren't trying to "cheat" all of those "hardworking, more honest students". This doesn't justify cheating, although it gives you a little bit of perspective on how a person could do so without mens rea.

I agree, all the times I've considerd cheating have been becuase I was burnt out on trying to learn the materal, and a fail would not fair for the time invested. I've never acutally gone through with it and as such have failed a few modules (I have a huge sense of guilt).

After finding my weakness (my memory) I adjusted how I learned and was never felt compelled to consider cheating again. I also don't really ever get annoyed at bad marks any more becuase I know that I've done my best, and that's all I can give.

Bottom line for the OP: The guilt you feel by cheating will only get worse if you do it again. You can also be expelled from some Universities depending on how severe the infraction. Its most likely you haven't found the best way to study for you yet, try new ways.

If you really have tried everything; doing badly in something is nothing to be ashamed of, so long as you gave it everything you have. There are other subjects and areas out there, no one is suited to absolutely everything.

 

[Mgt3]

I agree, all the times I've considerd cheating have been becuase I was burnt out on trying to learn the materal, and a fail would not fair for the time invested. I've never acutally gone through with it and as such have failed a few modules (I have a huge sense of guilt).

After finding my weakness (my memory) I adjusted how I learned and was never felt compelled to consider cheating again. I also don't really ever get annoyed at bad marks any more becuase I know that I've done my best, and that's all I can give.

Bottom line for the OP: The guilt you feel by cheating will only get worse if you do it again. You can also be expelled from some Universities depending on how severe the infraction. Its most likely you haven't found the best way to study for you yet, try new ways.

If you really have tried everything; doing badly in something is nothing to be ashamed of, so long as you gave it everything you have. There are other subjects and areas out there, no one is suited to absolutely everything.

I agree. We shouldn't judge the original poster. (What if he's paying for school out of pocket and can't afford to fail?) The original poster should know that there are many here who are willing to help him with his questions. The key to preparation is doing it well in advance. Don't wait until the last week because it's too late by then. You can't get away with cheating again and again; it's like speeding with a radar detector eventually you're going to get caught.

 

[Gear300]

I go to a top 10 school. You wouldn't last 5 minutes without doing work.

I didn't say you couldn't pass the tests if you were that smart. You could. In fact I told a story in a past thread about a guy in a class I had one time that got the highest grades on all his exams but never did any homework: so the professor flunked him.

I've never been a professor so I wouldn't know his/her situation, but that sounds somewhat irrational. Classes do not define intellects, they define career opportunities.

 

[Cyrus]

I agree. We shouldn't judge the original poster. (What if he's paying for school out of pocket and can't afford to fail?) The original poster should know that there are many here who are willing to help him with his questions. The key to preparation is doing it well in advance. Don't wait until the last week because it's too late by then. You can't get away with cheating again and again; it's like speeding with a radar detector eventually you're going to get caught.

"We shouldn't judge the original poster"?

What do you mean, we shouldn't judge the original poster? He cheated for crying out loud! What do I care if he can't afford to pay out of pocket? Is that supposed to justify anything?

Cheating is not condoned around here and is frowned upon. If you cheat, look elsewhere for sympathy.

 

[arunma]

To the original poster and anyone else considering cheating: I would strongly advise against it. Morality issues aside, this can really screw up your career. Most professors absolutely hate cheating. When I was in college I even had a professor who threatened that if anyone was caught cheating, not only would he be thrown out of the university, but the professor would actively hunt the guy down and inform potential employers that he is a cheater. Having been a physics TA, I hear about a few students every year who are caught cheating, and it isn't pretty. Just because you got away with it once is no guarantee that you'll be successful the next time. This goes double for something as conspicuous as a notecard. Other students may be watching, and could report you.

Regarding what Mgt3 said about paying for school out of pocket and not being able to fail. If you're paying for college out of pocket, you can't afford to be thrown out. At least if you fail a class, it doesn't negate all the work you've done in your other classes (i.e. they'll still let you retake it and make up the grade). Once you're kicked out for cheating, you're basically toast. If you think you can't afford to fail, then you definitely can't afford to be caught cheating. Instead of cheating, it's a lot easier to just stop partying on the weekends and study harder.

And if all else fails, memorize your cheat sheet five minutes before class and copy everything down on your scratch paper. What are they going to do, bust you for looking at your own test? Seriously, this method is almost as effective as the cheat sheet, and it's perfectly legal. Heck, I even do it in grad school. My professor makes fun of me for it, but at least it's legitimate.

 

[rootX]

I agree. We shouldn't judge the original poster. (What if he's paying for school out of pocket and can't afford to fail?)... You can't get away with cheating again and again; it's like speeding with a radar detector eventually you're going to get caught.

And when you get caught.. you would have paid like 3-4 times what you paid to now. For the time between, you would never learn anything (paying for getting no returns). Cheating is not an minor offense and the consequences can have a big impact on your degree in case you get caught..

 

[Mgt3]

"We shouldn't judge the original poster"?

What do you mean, we shouldn't judge the original poster? He cheated for crying out loud! What do I care if he can't afford to pay out of pocket? Is that supposed to justify anything?

Cheating is not condoned around here and is frowned upon. If you cheat, look elsewhere for sympathy.

Reading comprehension is your friend. Go back to my original post. I do not condone cheating. I never said I condoned cheating. I simply argued that we shouldn't rush to judge a person before considering the underlying circumstances. Not everyone is able to keep up with the work like you or others may have been able to do in school. Some people pay their tuition out of pocket and can't afford to fail. People under psychological duress will resort to cheating without intending to harm their other classmates. The original poster was obviously remorseful for the unintended consequences of his act evidenced by his original post. I'd be highly surprised if he winds up with an A. Having the material in front of you is no way to answer questions correctly if you don't understand the material (d'oh!). If he has a cumulative final, he's in trouble because he doesn't understand what he was originally tested on. If the class is a prerequisite for something else, he's screwed down the road. In the real world people look for advantages over their competitors every day whether in business, politics, casino games, sports. You only have an argument against this guy if he breaks the curve which is highly unlikely (see above), assuming there even is a curve.

Bottom line: He's only cheating himself. Get over it. His little cheat sheet doesn't hold a candle to the amount of cheating legitimized by educational institutions. Football players are given free rides in classes they deserve to fail. Relatives of college employees get preferential grading. Hell, if a professor has a favourite student, that person could wind up with better grades. Life is not a meritocracy and it ain't going to change. Get over it.

 

[Mgt3]

Regarding what Mgt3 said about paying for school out of pocket and not being able to fail. If you're paying for college out of pocket, you can't afford to be thrown out. At least if you fail a class, it doesn't negate all the work you've done in your other classes (i.e. they'll still let you retake it and make up the grade). Once you're kicked out for cheating, you're basically toast. If you think you can't afford to fail, then you definitely can't afford to be caught cheating. Instead of cheating, it's a lot easier to just stop partying on the weekends and study harder.

I agree. Nine times out of ten, cheating isn't the rational option (from a rational choice perspective). My point is that someone doing poorly across the board will be under lots of psychological stress. They aren't thinking rationally.

 

[Mgt3]

When I was in college I even had a professor who threatened that if anyone was caught cheating, not only would he be thrown out of the university, but the professor would actively hunt the guy down and inform potential employers that he is a cheater.

The imbecile should keep his mouth shut before he gets slapped with a heavy lawsuit. The actions of your former professor violate numerous privacy, education, and tort laws. Threatening to disclose private academic records only empowers cheaters.

 

[Cyrus]

Reading comprehension is your friend. Go back to my original post. I do not condone cheating. I never said I condoned cheating. I simply argued that we shouldn't rush to judge a person before considering the underlying circumstances.

Who care's what the circumstances were? Don't cheat, Ever. Period! I take issue when you say 'don't rush to judge', because it is inexcusible!

Not everyone is able to keep up with the work like you or others may have been able to do in school. Some people pay their tuition out of pocket and can't afford to fail.

Please try again with the exucues. I know many people who went to school and paid out of pocket and never cheated. This is the most absurd load of crap I've heard, and is disrespectful to all my friends that busted their asses to get good grades while working. If he can't work while going to school, he should quit school and not dishonor the rest of his classmates by cheating. I have zero, zero, zero, zero, zero patience for this argument. One of my friends would work the night shift at UPS for days and would be a walking zombie sometimes. He never cheated, and always got top grades.

People under psychological duress will resort to cheating without intending to harm their other classmates. The original poster was obviously remorseful for the unintended consequences of his act evidenced by his original post. I'd be highly surprised if he winds up with an A. Having the material in front of you is no way to answer questions correctly if you don't understand the material (d'oh!). If he has a cumulative final, he's in trouble because he doesn't understand what he was originally tested on. If the class is a prerequisite for something else, he's screwed down the road.

Sorry, that doesn't justify anything.

In the real world people look for advantages over their competitors every day whether in business, politics, casino games, sports. You only have an argument against this guy if he breaks the curve which is highly unlikely (see above), assuming there even is a curve.

Excuse me? So it's ok if he cheats so long as he doesn't break the curve. You have got to be out of your mind.

Bottom line: He's only cheating himself. Get over it. His little cheat sheet doesn't hold a candle to the amount of cheating legitimized by educational institutions. Football players are given free rides in classes they deserve to fail. Relatives of college employees get preferential grading. Hell, if a professor has a favourite student, that person could wind up with better grades. Life is not a meritocracy and it ain't going to change. Get over it.

There is no excuse for cheating, get over it.

Note: I have several pet peves. Justifying cheating (which you are indirectly doing by saying the poor guy has to work) is one of them.

Taking out a cheat sheet should result in him being kicked out of his university for good.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

This has been mentioned before, but it is worth repeating. Cheating will get you from test to test, but it does not help you at all when you get to an internship or the real world. Without developing skills in your specific area of study, you are simply sabotaging your own future. I'm not trying to be Mr. Clean on this thread, but quite honestly this is a point that few would argue against.

 

[Wellesley]

My last 4 test grades have been 77,72,59, and 48(all core major classes) i am so freakin pissed off w/ myself and I am having doubts if I am smart enough for college.Anyway today i was feeling bitter towards school and said F it and cheated on my microcontrollers exam.I sat in the back of the class and busted out a cheat sheet i made and some snippets of code.The prof. always reads during exams so he didnt notice.I pretty much had all the answers in front of me so I am expecting a high B or low A.I feel bad for cheating but i just did it out of frustration i guess.The part that pisses me off is that i actually study and read my textbooks and still get bad grades.

It seems like you were doing fine until recently. A 77 and 72 in a challenging class are perfectly acceptable, it's average. But to go from a 72 to a 48 in a class in two tests is puzzling. If you passed the test with only a cheat sheet and some code, why couldn't you memorize this while studying? Obviously, you knew what to put on the cheat sheet.

Let's think this through rationally. Everyone has a different idea of what "work" is...
The person who cheated might be having a hard time studying. They might be very frustrated because they haven't figured out a way to study efficiently and didn't want the record to reflect failure from an extensive amount of effort put into their courses. Such a person is under psychological duress. They aren't trying to "cheat" all of those "hardworking, more honest students". This doesn't justify cheating, although it gives you a little bit of perspective on how a person could do so without mens rea.

How is cheating not "cheating" the honest students?! How can people justify immoral actions? If you robbed someone, and claimed that you were under stress, does that make your actions right?

 

[Cyrus]

I know a guy who cheats. He's cheated his whole life on everything. Ever since high school he cheats, even in college another friend of mine told me he does the same kind of nonsense. His major was completely different than mine (bio), but still.

Absolutely unscrupulous...

Now he's doing pretty much nothing with his life.

 

[Wellesley]

See, what gets me are the people who have gotten away with cheating for a long time, and then get caught. Of course they claim, "I didn't mean too!" and "promise" to never do it again.

What will cheating on one test do for you, when you flunk the final exam?

 

[Mgt3]

This has been mentioned before, but it is worth repeating. Cheating will get you from test to test, but it does not help you at all when you get to an internship or the real world. Without developing skills in your specific area of study, you are simply sabotaging your own future. I'm not trying to be Mr. Clean on this thread, but quite honestly this is a point that few would argue against.

That's why I could care less if he tried to cheat on a test.

1. Having a cheat sheet is useless if you don't understand the material to begin with. You won't know how to apply the information. Need proof? Give someone with a poor understanding of calculus a cheat sheet on differential equations and ask them to solve a differential equation. It's not happening.

2. He's only cheating himself. He's not cheating the other students. His grades have no bearing on the other students' abilities to perform well in the course and learn the required material. He isn't denying them a thing, unless he broke a curve, which I highly doubt.

3. If he gets caught, he's kicked out of the university. If he's willing to risk his future who am I to stop him?

We'd like to think all cheaters fail, but I know plenty of rotten a-holes who get ahead. It doesn't make it right, but I know of one guy who cheated in college, cheated in law school, cheated on the bar exam, cheated on his wife, cheated elections, cheated the electorate, cheated other politicians, is a multimillionaire and happy with his life because he found God. Come to think of it, he's one rotten son of a ***** and I hate his guts but that doesn't keep him from prospering financially.

 

[Cyrus]

That's why I could care less if he tried to cheat on a test.

1. Having a cheat sheet is useless if you don't understand the material to begin with. You won't know how to apply the information. Need proof? Give someone with a poor understanding of calculus a cheat sheet on differential equations and ask them to solve a differential equation. It's not happening.

2. He's only cheating himself. He's not cheating the other students. His grades have no bearing on the other students' abilities to perform well in the course and learn the required material. He isn't denying them a thing, unless he broke a curve, which I highly doubt.

3. If he gets caught, he's kicked out of the university. If he's willing to risk his future who am I to stop him?

We'd like to think all cheaters fail, but I know plenty of rotten a-holes who get ahead. It doesn't make it right, but I know of one guy who cheated in college, cheated in law school, cheated on the bar exam, cheated on his wife, cheated elections, cheated the electorate, cheated other politicians, is a multimillionaire and happy with his life because he found God. Come to think of it, he's one rotten son of a ***** and I hate his guts but that doesn't keep him from prospering financially.

Perfect example of how cheating (a) did help himself, (b) didn't get him kicked out, and (c) wasn't useless. But hey, you "could care less" about him cheating.

Zero tolerance for cheating, none.

 

[Mgt3]

Perfect example of how cheating (a) did help himself, (b) didn't get him kicked out, and (c) wasn't useless. But hey, you "could care less" about him cheating.

Zero tolerance for cheating, none.

Cyrus, I don't believe cheating is justified under normal circumstanced and I never argued that. I care more about a scumbag politician billing the local government 70 grand per year for two hours of work per week who's personally affecting me rather than some kid cheating himself. The cases are dissimilar. Cheating becomes a problem when other people suffer as a result of a student cheating. If he cheats, gets caught, and gets kicked out he's hurt himself and no one else. If he cheats and does poorly, which I expect he did, he loses, no one else. If he cheats, breaks a curve, and everyone get's a C now we have a problem.

 

[windsupernova]

Well, cheating can only get you so far IMO. And you will feel a lot more accomplished if you managed to do it yourself through hard work

 

[Wellesley]

I don't believe cheating is justified under normal circumstanced and I never argued that. I care more about a scumbag politician billing the local government 70 grand per year for two hours of work per week who's personally affecting me rather than some kid cheating himself.

Normal circumstances? When can it be justified?

 

[Cyrus]

Cyrus, I don't believe cheating is justified under normal circumstanced and I never argued that. I care more about a scumbag politician billing the local government 70 grand per year for two hours of work per week who's personally affecting me rather than some kid cheating himself. The cases are dissimilar. Cheating becomes a problem when other people suffer as a result of a student cheating. If he cheats, gets caught, and gets kicked out he's hurt himself and no one else. If he cheats and does poorly, which I expect he did, he loses, no one else. If he cheats, breaks a curve, and everyone get's a C now we have a problem.

You just did it again. "under normal circumstances". That impiles its ok to cheat under 'extraordinary circumstances' - it is not.

Ok, and what if he cheats and gets a grade that's on par with the curve, but much higher than what he would have achieved had he not cheated. Now he gets to pass the class along with everyone else (and didn't break the curve), and basically screwed the entire class over.

Do you understand the principle of integrity? You have it or you dont, and what defines it is during extraordinary circumstances.

 

[humanino]

D*mn !

Cheating becomes a problem when other people suffer as a result of a student cheating.

NO
Stop arguing, cheating is never fine, from the beginning it is a problem. Face it : even if you consider cheating you are already a cheating looser. Accepting it is the only the progress away from it.

 

[Choppy]

I have to say I'm with Cyrus on this one.

It's interesting how some people will rationalize certain actions.

With regards to not being able to "afford" to fail - this is perhaps motivation for cheating, but it is not justification. Paying tuition does not entitle anyone to credit for a course - only the opportunity to earn it.