Is Free Speech Being Confused with Hate Speech in Schools?

[russ_watters]

When the confederate flag is displayed it is a symbol of the south, nothing more. It doesn't mean "grrr, slavery was right!" or other such nonsense.

No? What does "the south" stand for, then? What heritage, specifically, is that flag meant to remind us of?

If you are truly this confused by the symbolism of the confederate flag, why aren't you actively pushing for the removal of mississippi, georgia, south carolina, etc's state flag? They are all based on the confederate flag. Such a divisive and hateful state flag should not be allowed to stand!

I'm not confused nor am I "actively pushing for" anything. But remaining state flags based on the Confederate flag should be re-designed and many have been. The issue of Georgia's flag is instructive because it is a clear demonstration of precisely my point:

The state flag used from 1956 to 2001 (see below) featured a prominent Confederate Battle Flag, which some residents found offensive due to its historical use by the Confederate States of America and its contemporary use as a symbol by various white supremacy groups. People found it offensive because the emblem was originally adopted not during the American Civil War period but in 1956 during the height of the fight for desegregation during the Civil Rights Movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state )
In other words, the flag was designed during the civil rights movement as a reaction against it. The Confederate Battle Flag was chosen precisely because of the "heritage" of racism it represents. And it has since been changed because of the recognition that it is wrong to display it.

Just as there is a lot more to american heritage than the revolutionary war, there is a lot more to southern heritage than just the civil war. If you can't understand that then I am sorry, i can't help you.

You keep asserting it, but you have yet to explain it. If there is more to Southern heritage represented by the Confederate Battle Flag, then tell me what that heritage is! What good things is the Confederate Battle Flag a symbol of?

Don't just tell me I'm wrong, explain!

 

[WhoWee]

Just out of curiosity, should a student (or teacher) be permitted to wear a belt buckle displaying this image?
http://gaylife.about.com/od/gaypride/p/rainbowflag.htm
What if just one person finds it offensive?

 

[1MileCrash]

You are misunderstanding my point. If the confederate flag is for heritage purposes I don't mind. So in Alabama, it would be understandable for someone to wear it to display one's heritage. However, in Michigan this is not the case. This was taken to be a reference to the KKK. A group of, let's be honest, murderous bigots. By the way, if someone were wearing the belt buckle in Alabama in reference to the KKK then I would still have a problem with it.

My question is - why is the confederate flag taken as a reference to the KKK? Please- answer me that. I really want to know the source of this.

Yeah, you're going to find some with the confederate flag too, but you'll find them using our good ol' American flag much more commonly, and you'll find them using the christian flag by FAR the most often.

If I were in michigan, and I saw a confederate flag hanging from someone's porch, my immediate thought would be that they have family or are originally from the south. The idea that they meaning to display "hate" (of what, no one has seemed to clear up yet - could be hate for brownies as far as I know.) would never enter my mind. Then again, I actually know what the flag means.

In all honesty, this makes about the exact same sense as saying the buddists that lived thousands of years ago that made a practice out of using the swastika were in fact, Nazis.

 

[russ_watters]

The confederate flag is currently used a symbol of country pride and the love of small town affairs. It has little to do with racism, just as a student wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt has little to do with marxism.

Insofar as Che Guevara t-shirts are a fad, often with little or no connection to the history, I agree with you. But that doesn't make it any more right than wearing a Nazi emblem because one likes the pretty red color or a Dallas Cowboys bumper sticker because you like the pretty silver and blue star.

 

[BobG]

One thing that bugs me about McDowell's reply.

The letter starts out very professional and exactly what you'd expect from a college educated Economics teacher.

Right up until the paragraph about the argument. The style disintegrates. That paragraph reads as if it were written by a student in middle school with few written communications skills beyond good spelling. It's hard to believe the same person wrote both that paragraph and the rest of the letter.

Then the style reverts back to the professional style you'd expect from a college educated Economics teacher.

It probably doesn't mean anything other than that the teacher was still pretty wound up about the incident, but it was something that was too strange not to notice.

 

[russ_watters]

Just out of curiosity, should a student (or teacher) be permitted to wear a belt buckle displaying this image?
http://gaylife.about.com/od/gaypride/p/rainbowflag.htm
What if just one person finds it offensive?

You're missing the point. At issue isn't the people viewing the symbol, but the people using the symbol. Certain symbols have a history and oft-intended use as hate speech. In other words, the symbol was adopted for the purpose of displaying hate. It is because of that history that such symbols are categorized and treated that way. The rainbow has no connection with hate speech.

 

[Evo]

My question is - why is the confederate flag taken as a reference to the KKK? Please- answer me that. I really want to know the source of this.

Nice selecting pictures to suit your post. You realize it's just as easy to post hundreds of KKk members holding the confederate flag.

In answer to your question.

The Confederate battle flag, called the "Southern Cross" or the cross of St. Andrew, has been described variously as a proud emblem of Southern heritage and as a shameful reminder of slavery and segregation. In the past, several Southern states flew the Confederate battle flag along with the U.S. and state flags over their statehouses. Others incorporated the controversial symbol into the design of their state flags. The Confederate battle flag has also been appropriated by the Ku Klux Klan and other racist hate groups. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, more than 500 extremist groups use the Southern Cross as one of their symbols.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

 

[russ_watters]

If I were in michigan, and I saw a confederate flag hanging from someone's porch, my immediate thought would be that they have family or are originally from the south. The idea that they meaning to display "hate" (of what, no one has seemed to clear up yet - could be hate for brownies as far as I know.) would never enter my mind. Then again, I actually know what the flag means. [emphasis added]

Is that feigned ignorance or a Freudian slip? Anyway, I was pretty specific in my first response to you, but let me try again:

The Confederate Battle Flag is predominantly a symbol of the Confederate side of the Civil War. The Civil War was predominantly fought over slavery. That is why modern hate groups (such as the government of the state of Georgia in the 1950s!) often choose to use the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol of their racism: it is the most direct, relevant and recognizable symbol of racism available to them.

In all honesty, this makes about the exact same sense as saying the buddists that lived thousands of years ago that made a practice out of using the swastika were in fact, Nazis.

Actually, you're arguing against your own point there. Since the Confederate Battle Flag was created during the Civil War, it couldn't possibly have been a symbol of the heritage of pre-civil war southerners.

 

[BobG]

Yeah, you're going to find some with the confederate flag too, but you'll find them using our good ol' American flag much more commonly, and you'll find them using the christian flag by FAR the most often.

Nice selecting pictures to suit your post. You realize it's just as easy to post hundreds of KKk members holding the confederate flag.

In answer to your question.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

1MileCrash is technically correct in that the US flag is used more often than the Confederate flag. There is no special symbolism in having the US flag at KKK meetings. The US flag just makes the meeting seem more official as opposed to a disorganized gathering of a gaggle of lunatics.

Using the Confederate flag at KKK meetings is reserved for those KKK groups that believe the US flag is a symbol of the Jewish controlled government.

Some KKK groups just hated minorities. Some KKK groups also hated the US government.

The pictures of KKK groups with the US flag were just pictures of the slightly less extreme KKK groups.

By the way, that's not exactly an endorsement that hate groups ought to be able to claim any symbol they feel like grabbing as their own. For example, which of the following are symbols of white supremist hate groups and should no longer be used as answers on arithmetic tests?

a) 18
b) 28
c) 23
d) 100%

Answer: All four are.

18 stands for AH, or Adolf Hitler.
28 stands for BH, or Blood and Honor.
23 stands for W, or white.
100% stands for racial purity, or 100% white.


Or, conversely, what's wrong with these kids?
[PLAIN]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Pledge_salue.jpg

Answer: Nothing. That's the way kids did the Pledge of Allegiance prior to World War II.


Things like this go way beyond rationality.

 

[russ_watters]

1MileCrash is technically correct in that the US flag is used more often than the Confederate flag. There is no special symbolism in having the US flag at KKK meetings. The US flag just makes the meeting seem more official as opposed to a disorganized gathering of a gaggle of lunatics.

Ehh, I'd think it is more an intent to claim they are on the same side as "us" or that "we" should be on their side. They believe they are patriots and fly the flag as a symbol of that...

...flying the battle flag as well would be contradictory, so it would surprise me to see both at the same time. One link from a specific group I saw said that they started flying the Confederate Flag during the civil rights movement as a protest against government oppression. In other words, to say that the government should be overthrown or fought against as during the civil war. They also sometimes fly the American Flag upside-down for the same reason.

 

[WhoWee]

You're missing the point. At issue isn't the people viewing the symbol, but the people using the symbol. Certain symbols have a history and oft-intended use as hate speech. In other words, the symbol was adopted for the purpose of displaying hate. It is because of that history that such symbols are categorized and treated that way. The rainbow has no connection with hate speech.

Let's test the statement:
If a Gay person wears the Gay flag it's ok - right?
If a Mexican wears a Mexican flag it's ok - right?
If a Black person wears African garb it's ok - right?
If a Muslim wears Muslim garb it's ok - right?
If a Jewish person wears a Jewish symbol it's ok - right?
If a Christian wears a cross it's ok - right?
If a hunter wears a hunting permit it's ok - right?
If a biker has tattoo's (of non-hate symbols) from head to toe it's ok - right?
If a Southern (redneck stereotype) wears the Confederate flag it's ok - right?
If a Nascar fan wears a Confederate flag it's ok - right?
If a Russian wears a Soviet symbol it's ok - right?
If a German wears a Nazi symbol - it's ok?
If a KKK member wears a (symbol with a hood - of some type?) on his buckle - it's ok?

Hmmm - it feels as though the KKK and Nazi people would have a problem - even though they are being honest. While it MIGHT be possible one or more of the (seemingly) acceptable displays might be just as hateful?

 

[russ_watters]

Let's test the statement:
If a Gay person wears the Gay flag it's ok - right?
If a Mexican wears a Mexican flag it's ok - right?
If a Black person wears African garb it's ok - right?
If a Muslim wears Muslim garb it's ok - right?
If a Jewish person wears a Jewish symbol it's ok - right?
If a Christian wears a cross it's ok - right?
If a hunter wears a hunting permit it's ok - right?
If a biker has tattoo's (of non-hate symbols) from head to toe it's ok - right?
If a Southern (redneck stereotype) wears the Confederate flag it's ok - right? no
If a Nascar fan wears a Confederate flag it's ok - right? no
If a Russian wears a Soviet symbol it's ok - right?
If a German wears a Nazi symbol - it's ok? no
If a KKK member wears a (symbol with a hood - of some type?) on his buckle - it's ok? no

Hmmm - it feels as though the KKK and Nazi people would have a problem - even though they are being honest. While it MIGHT be possible one or more of the (seemingly) acceptable displays might be just as hateful?

Huh? See responses in bold. I'm not sure I see any connection between your post and mine that you responded to.

 

[WhoWee]

Huh? See responses in bold. I'm not sure I see any connection between your post and mine that you responded to.

Here is a direct connection.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=dw-confederateflag100906
"TALLADEGA, Ala. – Over the rolling Alabama hills, the soft autumn breeze still whistles through Dixie, finding a legendary track on race week and a sea of flags to push and pull – American flags, driver flags and the flag that remains the third rail of NASCAR, the Confederate.
In America, a NASCAR race is the last major sporting event where the Stars and Bars is still so prevalent, still so prominent, and while the debate over whether the flag's presence is appropriate isn't new, the stakes for NASCAR continue to get higher.

After a decade of massive growth, NASCAR's popularity has slowed and television ratings have slumped. To restart its progress, NASCAR must continue to attract new fans in fresh, more diverse markets, many of whom view the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism and oppression. Yet NASCAR doesn't want to alienate its loyal base, many of whom view the waving flags in the infield as a symbol of honor, history and traditional Southern pride. "

 

[1MileCrash]

The Confederate Battle Flag is predominantly a symbol of the Confederate side of the Civil War. The Civil War was predominantly fought over slavery.

Now, I am no history revisionists who will say slavery no part, because it did. It played a large part in the southern states' decision to succeed from the union along with a myriad of other reasons. The south was wrong in it's reasons for succeeding.

The US government rejected the legality of succession. (succession is mentioned no where in the constitution). In this respect I'd say the north was wrong in declaring that succession was illegal despite the constitution's silence on the matter, as the US is a group of states that willingly joined together in union.

This is where the confederate flag was created, as a symbol of the confederate states and their right to succeed from the union. Nope, it had nothing to do with slavery. It's best symbolism can be summed up with scottish origins and the american colors. Really.

Regardless...

I'm still not getting the racism, even taking into account your misunderstandings, I mean considering that persons of all races, including whites were slaves, and that slaves were mainly imported through the north?

That is why modern hate groups (such as the government of the state of Georgia in the 1950s!) often choose to use the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol of their racism: it is the most direct, relevant and recognizable symbol of racism available to them.

Are you being serious here?

Actually, you're arguing against your own point there. Since the Confederate Battle Flag was created during the Civil War, it couldn't possibly have been a symbol of the heritage of pre-civil war southerners.

No.

The confederate flag was created during the civil war, as a symbol of the southern states. Not as racism, or twinkie hatred, or cobbler whoring or whatever it is.


Just so we're understanding each other - you believe that the creation of the Confederate flag did not symbolize the confederate states, or the southern Us, but the advocation of slavery and (weirdly) racism?

Ponder this - does the American flag mean racism or slavery to you? I mean, the north had slaves almost just as long as the southern states did, the southern states were just behind in getting rid of them. If you consider the confederate flag to be solely a symbol of racism, do you at least admit that the US flag can be thought of as a symbol for slavery in the same way, along with the flags of several other nations?

Why do you insist that it is all that the flag symbolizes? Why does it symbolize that at all? Does the US flag represent discrimination to you? Or does it represent the proud inhabitants of the country and the pride they have for where they live?

 

[BobG]

Ehh, I'd think it is more an intent to claim they are on the same side as "us" or that "we" should be on their side. They believe they are patriots and fly the flag as a symbol of that...

...flying the battle flag as well would be contradictory, so it would surprise me to see both at the same time. One link from a specific group I saw said that they started flying the Confederate Flag during the civil rights movement as a protest against government oppression. In other words, to say that the government should be overthrown or fought against as during the civil war. They also sometimes fly the American Flag upside-down for the same reason.

Exactly! The use of the Confederate flag is to express a little more hate against even more people.

However...

The message being sent by a symbol depends on the context in which that symbol is used; not the symbol itself. The reality is - allowing a symbol to be consistently misused distorts the symbol's meanings to whatever the new users want it to mean. Having people misuse a symbol should tick off people who actually respect that symbol more than anyone else.

For example, I'm surprised when I hear people defend the students that wore US flag T-shirts to protest a Cinco de Mayo celebration. That's not what the US flag was intended for, it's not even appropriate to wear the US flag as apparel, and it leads to idiotic reactions such as telling a kid he has to stop displaying his flag because it's Veteran's Day.

 

[WhoWee]

Is this hate speech - or maybe just ambitious campaigning?


http://american3p.org/establishment-news/black-panther-kill-white-babies/

 

[WhoWee]

Is this free speech or hate speech?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DQAOZlNrO8&NR=1

 

[Char. Limit]

If a German wears a Nazi symbol - it's ok?

If a German wears a Nazi symbol, he goes to jail. Nazi symbols are banned in Germany.

 

[WhoWee]

If a German wears a Nazi symbol, he goes to jail. Nazi symbols are banned in Germany.

I was limiting the events to the US - but good point.

 

[Char. Limit]

I was limiting the events to the US - but good point.

Not many Germans live in the U.S. A lot of German-Americans, though.

 

[WhoWee]

Not many Germans live in the U.S. A lot of German-Americans, though.

It's been my experience that a German-American (1-2 generations removed from WWII) would be more likely to display a Nazi symbol than a German.

 

[russ_watters]

Here is a direct connection.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=dw-confederateflag100906[/I]

Jeez, what is it with people not explaining themselves tonight? A link to/quote from an article is not an explanation of a connection.

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?!

 

[WhoWee]

Jeez, what is it with people not explaining themselves tonight? A link to/quote from an article is not an explanation of a connection.

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?!

Very tired (last post of the evening) - I'm basically in agreement with you regarding the symbol vs the person with the symbol.

In the case of Nascar "Yet NASCAR doesn't want to alienate its loyal base, many of whom view the waving flags in the infield as a symbol of honor, history and traditional Southern pride."

Taking away the Confederate flag is like taking (ownership of) the sport away from many Southern fans - the flag brands the sport as Southern - it's not a racist statement. However, a Confederate flag painted on the rear window of a pick up truck owned by a young fellow in a Great Lakes city - might be (a racist statement).

 

[russ_watters]

Now, I am no history revisionists who will say slavery no part, because it did. It played a large part in the southern states' decision to succeed from the union along with a myriad of other reasons. The south was wrong in it's reasons for succeeding.

The US government rejected the legality of succession. (succession is mentioned no where in the constitution). In this respect I'd say the north was wrong in declaring that succession was illegal despite the constitution's silence on the matter, as the US is a group of states that willingly joined together in union.

This is where the confederate flag was created, as a symbol of the confederate states and their right to succeed from the union. Nope, it had nothing to do with slavery.

Um...so you acknowledge the war was at least partly about slavery and the flag was a symbol of the Confederate side of the war, but somehow that equals "nothing to do with slavery"? That's completely illogical.

Regardless...

I'm still not getting the racism, even taking into account your misunderstandings, I mean considering that persons of all races, including whites were slaves, and that slaves were mainly imported through the north?

Cop outs, all of them. What fraction of slaves were white? And whether the north participated in slave trade or not, it was the north that fought to end it.

Are you being serious here?

I'd be wondering the same about you, but I know these are common misdirections from people making this argument. I've seen them many times before and they never get less illogical as they are repeated.

But please, you tell me why the government of Georgia chose to put the Confederate Battle Flag into their state flag during the height of the civil rights movement.

Anyway, more misdirection:

The confederate flag was created during the civil war, as a symbol of the southern states.

You must be aware that that sentence does not reference the flag we're discussing. The flag we are discussing is the Confederate Battle Flag. Say it: "BATTLE". This seems like intentional misrepresentation of the issue for you to not use the word "battle". You're improperly labeling the flag in order to misrepresent what it stands for.

The flag that represents the Confederacy, a symbol of the southern states themselves (and not specifically the war), that was created at the start of the Civil War, is this one:

Just so we're understanding each other - you believe that the creation of the Confederate flag did not symbolize the confederate states, or the southern Us, but the advocation of slavery [snip]

Say it: BATTLE. The Confederate Battle flag is a symbol of the Battle. The war. (duh?)

Ponder this - does the American flag mean racism or slavery to you? I mean, the north had slaves almost just as long as the southern states did...

The American flag was not created as a symbol of a fight to preserve slavery.

...the southern states were just behind in getting rid of them.

That is a misrepresentation of the reality: until the Civil War happened, the South had no intention of getting rid of slavery. They were actively fighting against it.

If you consider the confederate flag to be solely a symbol of racism, do you at least admit that the US flag can be thought of as a symbol for slavery in the same way, along with the flags of several other nations?

I never used the word "soley", nor does your attempt to include the Amereican flag have any logic behind it.

Why do you insist that it is all that the flag symbolizes?

You're mischaracterizing what I said. I never used the words "soley" or "all". I used words like "predominantly" and "mostly".

Why does it symbolize that at all? Does the US flag represent discrimination to you? Or does it represent the proud inhabitants of the country and the pride they have for where they live?

Repeating yourself doesn't make it better. In any case, you still have not provided an example of what "heritage" you think the Confederate BATTLE Flag ACTUALLY stands for. Not providing the alternatives implies to me that you don't know of anything else it stands for.

 

[Char. Limit]

Very tired (last post of the evening) - I'm basically in agreement with you regarding the symbol vs the person with the symbol.

In the case of Nascar "Yet NASCAR doesn't want to alienate its loyal base, many of whom view the waving flags in the infield as a symbol of honor, history and traditional Southern pride."

Taking away the Confederate flag is like taking (ownership of) the sport away from many Southern fans - the flag brands the sport as Southern - it's not a racist statement. However, a Confederate flag painted on the rear window of a pick up truck owned by a young fellow in a Great Lakes city - might be (a racist statement).

I've seen Confederate flags in neighboring Idaho. It's not Southern, but it might as well be, considering the culture. Are they reflecting Southern pride or racist statements?

 

[WhoWee]

I've seen Confederate flags in neighboring Idaho. It's not Southern, but it might as well be, considering the culture. Are they reflecting Southern pride or racist statements?

I'm not familiar with the culture of Idaho? However, IMO, there is a correlation between Southern and rural - that is why I used the Great Lakes City - Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, or Buffalo to make a point.

 

[russ_watters]

Exactly! The use of the Confederate flag is to express a little more hate against even more people.

Yes: for the KKK it is blacks all the time and sometimes the government too.

The message being sent by a symbol depends on the context in which that symbol is used; not the symbol itself.

I agree in theory, but in reality, certain symbols are inexorably linked with certain causes. The Confederate Battle Flag is inexorably linked with the Civil War and the slavery it was fought to preserve.

The reality is - allowing a symbol to be consistently misused distorts the symbol's meanings to whatever the new users want it to mean. Having people misuse a symbol should tick off people who actually respect that symbol more than anyone else.

I'm not actually sure to what you are referring. Are we still talking about the Confederate Battle Flag or Che Guevara t-shirts?

For example, I'm surprised when I hear people defend the students that wore US flag T-shirts to protest a Cinco de Mayo celebration. That's not what the US flag was intended for, it's not even appropriate to wear the US flag as apparel, and it leads to idiotic reactions such as telling a kid he has to stop displaying his flag because it's Veteran's Day.

I'm less interested in misuse of a generally benign symbol than with use (or misuse, doesn't matter) of a well-established "bad" symbol.

 

[BobG]

Actually, when you really look at it, the Confederate flag is, at a minimum, a statement of hatred for the United States. It celebrates the days when the South was free of the United States and it, and the accompanying statement the South will rise again, offers the promise that someday the South will be free of the United States once again.

Considering why the South hates the United States and why the Confederate flag suddenly became popular again in the 50's, I could see people interpreting this as a statement of white supremacy as much as a statement of hatred for the United States.

Just a quick sampling of declarations of causes for seceding from the United States:
Texas Declaration of Causes
South Carolina Declaration of Causes
Mississippi Declaration of Secession

Texas, in particular, sounds like its declaration of causes were written by white supremists.

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law.

Texas's declaration is a far cry from the US Declaration of Independence.

The idea of the Confederate flag as a legitimate expression of heritage and pride are more believable the less closely one looks at its real heritage.

 

[Hepth]

Being from and still living in Michigan, and a rural part at that (the majority of my relatives work for an auto company, watch nascar, hunt, have farmland, horses, listen to country, are republican and christian). None of them(to my knowledge) have ever displayed a confederate flag, nor do they sympathize with the south at all, but many of their friends do.
After meeting these friends, as well as a number of other confederate battle flag displaying (truck license plate, painted truck back window, etc) Michiganders I've come to realize that (for the majority of them):

1. They don't believe they are racist.
2. They don't look, nor do they think other people look at the confederate battle flag as anything more than a display of pride of the southern culture, let alone a symbol of racism.
3. They usually are a little racist, but in an ignorant way rather than a hateful one.

I think its one of those "ignorant of the common perception" actions; the flag is a symbol of support of slavery to a LOT of people. Many that are displaying it do not realize this, they truly (and mistakenly) believe it is merely a symbol of "southern heritage/culture".
The swastika is legitimately a symbol of luckiness; but it is perceived by many as a symbol of hate.

Regularly, the confederate flag is MISTAKENLY taken as a legitimate symbol of southern pride; but that doesn't mean those who display it for THIS reason are at fault for their mistaken attribution, nor EXPLICITLY believe its perceived racist agenda.

Just to clarify though, the case in question with the belt buckle is probably not a case of mistaken symbolism; but many will hide under that explanation to avoid persecution for their beliefs.

 

[BobG]

Just to clarify though, the case in question with the belt buckle is probably not a case of mistaken symbolism; but many will hide under that explanation to avoid persecution for their beliefs.

I don't believe she wore the buckle to show her support for Southern heritage and pride.

However, whatever lack of knowledge your relatives' friends may have about the Confederate flag is probably amplified when it comes to your average teenage girl in Michigan.

I think she may not consider it a symbol of anything.

One other note about the original post. As moving as the video of the gay student calling McDowell a hero was, the student actually didn't even go to the high school involved. I believe he may have legitimately been moved by the idea of a teacher standing up for gay students, but the video shouldn't be taken as a testimony about McDowell, himself.

All in all, the original post and article gave a horribly inaccurate picture of the entire incident.

 

[Char. Limit]

All in all, the original post and article gave a horribly inaccurate picture of the entire incident.

Especially since it implicitly stated that the student wearing the belt buckle was one of the students arguing.

 

[BobG]

Actually, given the history of this town, I think I might change my opinion about the students. It would be hard not to know why the Confederate flag was banned.

A Facebook hate group a year ago.

Anti-gay vandalism countered by vandalism defending gays 5 years ago.
Students Defend Gay Rights

The town celebrated Martin Luther King Day with an auction of KKK memorabilia.

The town was the home of KKK leader Robert Miles.
Exit the dragon: Klan sale goes quietly

For a town of 9,000, Howell's a pretty exciting place.

 

[Jasongreat]

Actually, when you really look at it, the Confederate flag is, at a minimum, a statement of hatred for the United States. It celebrates the days when the South was free of the United States and it, and the accompanying statement the South will rise again, offers the promise that someday the South will be free of the United States once again.

I don't see it that way, it may be a statement of hatred against what the United States had become, an involuntary association, but not against the original intent of the of the US. If we look at our founding document, it explicitly says: " — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. If you take a look at the http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/csaconstitution/" . I find it interesting that their miss-treatment coincides with their emancipation, in the north they are shunned and segregated, in the south they coexist and are allowed to even reach the same level. Once they were emancipated in the south, they were shunned and segregated. I think one could argue that it was emancipation that caused the violent treatment, by organizations like the KKK(they were formed originally to protect the whites votes during reconstruction when northern troops were keeping whites out of the voting booth), of blacks in the south and not slavery(which was a policy of the United States government, kept from their time as a colony of Britain, that somehow has the perceived moral high ground in this discussion)

Considering why the South hates the United States and why the Confederate flag suddenly became popular again in the 50's, I could see people interpreting this as a statement of white supremacy as much as a statement of hatred for the United States.

Why, their subjugation and elimination of the state's right to govern themselves except in those instances enumerated in the US constitution? The civil war was about slavery, not african slavery but state slavery and is why, imo, some southern states revived the flag when the US government started to do the same thing over again. If you consider following the founding principles of the US, love of our country, and going against the founding principles as hating our country. It is the south who loves, fought and died for the US. It was the north who hated, fought and died to subvert the US.

 

[Panwasbipolar]

I had a teacher in high school that preferred to reign with an iron fist, not standing for the pledge on religious grounds was fine, but if you brought up atheism or the laundry list of crap that was omitted in the texts we read it was classroom hellfire.

I understand it's somewhat relative to the time we live in but it appears to me this was more about ego rather than anything else.

Political correctness can work both ways I guess.

If they really wanted to be crafty they'd run around yelling , "Hail Caesar!"Cheers!

 

[WhoWee]

The civil war was about slavery, not african slavery but state slavery and is why, imo, some southern states revived the flag when the US government started to do the same thing over again. If you consider following the founding principles of the US, love of our country, and going against the founding principles as hating our country. It is the south who loves, fought and died for the US. It was the north who hated, fought and died to subvert the US.

Ideology had a part, but money also had a lot to do with it.

Slavery did not happen in a vacuum and it didn't occur overnight.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/slavery.htm

It's unfortunate that cooler heads did not prevail. If Lincoln had the communication capabilities available today - we would probably have a different history.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335189,00.html

It's hard to imagine the conditions after the war (from all perspectives). The first question for the recently freed slave (after a short celebration) must have been "what now?".
http://www.history.rochester.edu/class/douglass/part5.html