Is George W. Bush's IQ Really 129?

[Gokul43201]

No one said anything about "skillful manipulation". And even so, I believe that skillful manipulation of words does have something to do with intelligence - wit and intelligence have a high correlation. It's not the only thing, however, and that's the flaw in you line of "reasoning".

But if you don't have a basic vocabulary, or seem to be oblivious of grammar, or even what constitutes a logical argument, you can't claim to be a man of intellect.

 

[the number 42]

If the skillful manipulation of words had anything to do with intelligence, Mohamad Ali would be proclaimed a genius.

If the skillful manipulation of words was the only measure of intelligence I might agree.

I've met many people who are not articulate but appear to be intelligent in other ways e.g. strong artistic talent, complex mental arithmatic skills etc but GWB is a different matter. Let me put it this way: if he was ordinary joe delivering the mail I would consider it cruel to highlight his fairly obvious lack of intelligence. Come on, guys - who can look at this guy and listen to him speak without thinking 'Thunderbirds are Go'...? An IQ of 129?

 

[selfAdjoint]

Some bloggers are wondering whether his mind has deteriorated since he was governor of Texas. Apparently when he debated the former governer during his first run for that office he gave every sign of inteligence, responded quickly and flexibly and used big words with ease. Versus now. Daring doctors are offering diagnoses ranging from pre-senile dementia to mad cow disease. Personally I think that if true, it could be due to excessive cocain usage in his thrities. Well known to rot your brain.:)

 

[wasteofo2]

Not to mention all the drinking he did...

 

[omin]

I'd like to add a point.

Are you sure Bushes IQ isn't .911? That's a real intelligence problem.

 

[Zoidsoft]

Or rather, it's all about the De-ception. Bush enjoys being perceived as stupid. It will get him more votes than if he was perceived to be smart; at least this is the case with the average joe, american public. It is also protection for him against his enemies who underestimate him, making his job easier. Reagan is also one to understand this very well.

It may be different now, but when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart, and most people who vote rermember those days. Young people in general are less likely to vote.

I think this was also part of Clinton's problem in never being fully accepted as a leader. Many people in the south deeply hate him, which interestingly is a demographic that is a bit behind in education. Clinton reportedly has an IQ of 137 (I wish I could remember the source). The 182 reported by the "fake" Lovenstein Institute is bogus.

zoidsoft

 

[Gokul43201]

Bush enjoys being perceived as stupid. It will get him more votes than if he was perceived to be smart; at least this is the case with the average joe, american public...

It may be different now, but when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart, and most people who vote rermember those days.

I can't agree more. People seem to have a soft spot for 'stupid' while 'intellectual' is about the worst thing you can be labeled.

 

[Zoidsoft]

I can't agree more. People seem to have a soft spot for 'stupid' while 'intellectual' is about the worst thing you can be labeled.

Forest Gump was a real hit in this country in 1994. Just another observation that I'm not quite sure of:

It seems to me that the nerds, misfits, blenders in high school became democrats predominately, while the jocks and social climbers became republicans.

I could swear this was true at my high school, but maybe it's peculiar to my experience.

zoidsoft

 

[Gokul43201]

It seems to me that the nerds, misfits, blenders in high school became democrats predominately, while the jocks and social climbers became republicans.

As Larry King said, (in response to a Bill Maher statement that the South is, on average, dumber than the rest of the country), "Can you actually say something like that...I mean, in this day and age ?"

(I wonder what Larry meant ? In this day and age...of political correctness ?)

 

[Zoidsoft]

I think that this is cultural, not genetic. This is as politically correct as I'm willing to get. The issue that worries me long term is that the USA as a whole does not favor intelligence, as say many other countries, particularly India, japan and China. This means that the US is going against evolution, which in the long term dooms the "american species" to extinction.

zoidsoft

 

[Smurf]

GBW's IQ 129? I can't imagine he scored too high on the verbal reasoning part of the test, so he must be a GENIUS in visuo-spatial and mathmatical skills (if I'm right in assuming that these make up the test).

Either that or he's a walking example of how we don't use our whole brain.

 

[Gokul43201]

I think that this is cultural, not genetic. This is as politically correct as I'm willing to get. The issue that worries me long term is that the USA as a whole does not favor intelligence, as say many other countries, particularly India, japan and China. This means that the US is going against evolution, which in the long term dooms the "american species" to extinction.

zoidsoft

Ha ha...but the Indians, Chinese and Japanese (especially, the intelligent ones) are becoming Americans! I'm sure you see enough of this...at Cornell ?

 

[Zoidsoft]

Ha ha...but the Indians, Chinese and Japanese (especially, the intelligent ones) are becoming Americans! I'm sure you see enough of this...at Cornell ?

Actually, there was a report on 60 minutes a couple of months ago about a school in India that was so good (in computer science) that the worst students go to Ivy league schools in the USA as a fall back position (if they flunk out). I wish I could remember the name of the school.

zoidsoft

 

[Smurf]

I'd comment on this but I don't understand what you and Gokul are arguing about right now, are you saying Americans shun Intelligence and that's why they're getting weaker, are you saying that Chinese, Japanese and Indians are following this trend? or are they on the rise?

 

[Zoidsoft]

I'd comment on this but I don't understand what you and Gokul are arguing about right now, are you saying Americans shun Intelligence and that's why they're getting weaker, are you saying that Chinese, Japanese and Indians are following this trend? or are they on the rise?

I wouldn't say that America is getting weaker. Evolution as a trend takes many thousands of years, but nations rarely last that long anyway, so the point may be moot. But as a metaphor, when America shuns education as an important part of life, it is going against the grain of nature.

zoidsoft

 

[Gokul43201]

Actually, there was a report on 60 minutes a couple of months ago about a school in India that was so good (in computer science) that the worst students go to Ivy league schools in the USA as a fall back position (if they flunk out). I wish I could remember the name of the school.

zoidsoft

Ha ha. Perhaps you refer to the Indian Institute of Technology ?

And NO, I don't think anyone that flunks out will stand a chance of getting into an Ivy League School - not that they would find the level of education daunting, were they accepted.

 

[Gokul43201]

I'd comment on this but I don't understand what you and Gokul are arguing about right now, are you saying Americans shun Intelligence and that's why they're getting weaker, are you saying that Chinese, Japanese and Indians are following this trend? or are they on the rise?

We're not really arguing.

But neither are we saying that the Asians are following the "trend" of shunning intelligence.

 

[the number 42]

I wouldn't say that America is getting weaker. Evolution as a trend takes many thousands of years, but nations rarely last that long

Bear in mind that the brain evolves (or devolves too, I suppose) much faster than the rest of the body.

But let's stick to the point: Bush's IQ 129? I agree with the comment that he may have been bright once upon a time, but lifestyle has taken its toll. It would be interesting to see test his IQ now. Indeed if his IQ has deteriorated, that's nothing less than a matter of national security. Its happened before, after all, to poor old Ronnie.

 

[Zoidsoft]

Ha ha. Perhaps you refer to the Indian Institute of Technology ?

And NO, I don't think anyone that flunks out will stand a chance of getting into an Ivy League School - not that they would find the level of education daunting, were they accepted.

I googled it and found:

http://www.indianembassy.org/US_Media/2003/mar/cbs_iit.shtml

zoidsoft

 

[The_Professional]

Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?

 

[Integral]

Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?

You are treading on soft soil, watch your step!

 

[johny_doe]

Just for the sake of argument

Bush's IQ can't be much higher than the actual president, Al Gore, Gore invented the frickin internet after all, . That was a joke, but still, bush needed an earpiece for all his debates to know where "he" stood. I say "he" because bush is a puppet. Just for the sake of argument, Bush can't have a 129, he'd mention it, because everyone said it was low he'd want to prove it wrong. Clinton was in mensa, with an IQ of the upper 140's to 150's. Mensa is a "club" for those with overly high IQ's, 145ish and up. Bush isn't near mensa, but he'd say he had a high IQ. Thought I should leave you with a quote, "There is no french word for entrepreneur."

P.S. I don't want to go through the time to add the french accent marks to the french word, that Bush said didn't exist.

 

[selfAdjoint]

I just saw the story of Terman and his "smart kids" again. Terman was one of the early workers in IQ, and he collected longitudinal data on a sample of young people who all had IQs over 130. He often said there were two young men who just missed the cut by a couple of points who later won the Nobel Prize, while none of the people who were in the study did anything like that.

It turns out that the two who were passed over were Robert Shockley and Louis Alvarez. If Bush is not less smart than those two, he is smart enough. Bush is not really dumb, but he is monstrously misguided. It happens (look at Shockley in his later years!)

 

[Tigers2B1]

Could it be that Kerry’s composite IQ is lower that Dubya’s? Hard to say since Kerry hasn't released his SAT scores - where the SAT-IQ correlation exists. THIS LINKED SITE shows other information which indicates that Bush, may in fact, have a higher IQ than Kerry -

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

Side Bar To selfAdjoint - The Terman kids (aka The Termites) were kids who scoed in the top 0.5 percentile as I recall. In any event, those kids scored 140 and above on the IQ test used by Terman.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Boy, Sailor really went through a lot of work to produce his "probably". I'm not going to worry about it. Kerry's history in the Senate supports the notion that he's smart enough. And of course I have never denied that Bush is smart enough, though I think he's been a disaster for the country.

 

[Zantra]

still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

 

[pelastration]

if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

Zantra, I like that. Maybe ... not the country ... but for sure his business. He generates billions for his friends on your taxes. Now that's smart ... or he had some "luck" (?), meaning meeting the wrong guys at the right moment.

 

[Zantra]

Zantra, I like that. Maybe ... not the country ... but for sure his business. He generates billions for his friends on your taxes. Now that's smart ... or he had some "luck" (?), meaning meeting the wrong guys at the right moment.

YA I just rented Fahrenheit 9/11.. interesting stuff about all that saudi business he gets.

 

[Gokul43201]

I wonder if all the cocaine use is slowly catching up to him...

 

[GCT]

I'm not too surprised, he has handled all of the pressures of the presidency quite well, which I'm sure that most of us won't be able last if given the chance.

 

[Dayle Record]

IQ enhancement isn't quite like botox injections, but I am sure it can be done. In fact that sort of enhancement is much easier than silicon or botox, just a push of a button, a slip of false information.

Nukular zzzzzzzapppppp
Nukular zzzzzzzapppppp
Nuclear, oh thank you I feel much better now.

You sure this is how IQ enhancement works? Now, I already did the maze today. It's hard work. zzzzzzzappppp
ouch that smarts, huh huh huh getting smarts isn't as easy as it is made out to be. Ooooo my hair is starting to smoke.

 

[Moonbear]

Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?

It will decline with the sort of brain damage induced by chronic alcohol consumption. It's very likely he was a very smart person, I'm not so sure he is anymore. A friend of mine told me he heard an old clip of him giving a speech while running for governor of TX, and he was very well-spoken, no ahs and ums, stumbling over all his words, and failing to string sentences together. It seems he used to be able to speak in public and make some sense. So, is the loss of this ability because he is acting dumb to get votes from the average Joe, or have all those years of drinking finally caught up with him?

 

[franznietzsche]

still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

Being intellgient helps you, but it is never a good thing socially, no matter how old you are, and politics is the art of social manipulation. It is good to be smart, not to appear smart. There is a strong cultural suspiscion of intelligence, people don't typically like people who are better than them, they don't accept these people as being normal, or even similar to themselves. Sad fact of life.

 

[franznietzsche]

The people now think the real power is no more in politics. We used to think an alternative way was possible. I think the american responsability in establishing free market as the rule of the world today is not funny.

Socialist. Forgive our capitalism Comrade Humanino.

 

[Moonbear]

still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

True, but the "cool kids" working at gas stations and factories are more numerous than industry leaders, and they vote for the likeable guy, the one just like them, not the one who uses big words they can't understand. Bush speaks in very simple sentences, which are easy for the average Joe to understand. Kerry is getting better at it, but didn't start out very good at it. He would go into long, technical explanations of things that got people lost and confused, so they assumed he was just avoiding the question rather than understanding the depth of the answer being given.

I should also add that something else Bush does when speaking that helps with the average Joe voter is he talks in absolutes. Things are all black or white, no shades of gray. Kerry talks about different aspects of an issue, and speaks as he would to Congress, debating the pros and cons, addressing that there isn't always a perfect answer, but there are some better answers. This is lost on the average Joe. They see it as uncertainty. They think a leader must have all the answers all the time.