Is it too late to go back to school and pursue a different career?

[Art]

I joined some years back - out of curiosity went to a few meetings organised in local bars and the like, they were okay, people were fine and pretty much like any other group of folk, talked about the usual pub stuff - football etc.

Unlike other people's experiences here (anecdotal or otherwise) intelligence wasn't so much as mentioned by anyone. It seemed more a social opportunity to meet a disparate group of individuals from outside one's normal sphere. There are also SIGs which allow people with the same interest to communicate globally. MENSA is especially useful for people who travel a lot, which can be a lonely experience, as it gives them an introductory route to meet people in the cities they visit. In many countries MENSA has dedicated officers to assist traveling members in regard to visa requirements, accommodation and advice and information on places to visit.

On a national / international level judging from their newsletters there does seem to be a pompous attitude from the political class who strive for 'appointments' to committees etc. but every club and society I've ever known has suffered from the rise to prominence of those with the 'organising and elitist genes' (think golf for example) and so MENSA is probably the same as other clubs in that regard - no better, no worse.

btw most if not all of the fee MENSA charge applicants for the test is to cover the copyright fee they have to pay to the test originators as is made clear in the literature they provide with the test.

 

[Gilligan08]

I have always had a problem with groups or organizations where their intentions are to separate themselves in an elitist fashion. Things like MENSA and frats create an us and them attitude. If you are really a genius then there certainly there is a better way to prove it than by joining a group. Though I have no problems with groups whose soul pupose is to do good or socialize but they have to except everyone who is willing too, regardless of ability or status.

 

[NeoDevin]

Though I have never had much desire to be part of any such groups, I have no problems with their existing. There is no reason a group should have to accept everyone who wants to join, otherwise there would really be no reason to form the group in the first place.

 

[Gilligan08]

Though I have never had much desire to be part of any such groups, I have no problems with their existing. There is no reason a group should have to accept everyone who wants to join, otherwise there would really be no reason to form the group in the first place.

I have really no problems with them existing. Certainly people have the right join whatever group that makes them feel good about themselves.

And your right there is no other reason for them to exist which was exactly my point that there entire purpose is to exclude. But you are wrong that there is no other reason for groups like this to form. There are groups out there that are for people who want to do good or maybe just socialize. I don't see why someone needs a High IQ for anyone of those reasons.

 

[NeoDevin]

If someone decides they want to socialize with people who have high IQ's, that's there choice, I don't choose it, but I can't say they're wrong for doing it.

 

[Art]

A lot of golf societies require an applicant to have a minimum handicap before they'll be accepted as members and I don't see people getting bent out of shape over that.

 

[Evo]

A lot of golf societies require an applicant to have a minimum handicap before they'll be accepted as members and I don't see people getting bent out of shape over that.

Do they go around claiming that they are better than the general public? That's what I dislike about Mensa members. I can't tell you how many times some moron will contact me saying he's a Mensa member as if that will make up for the fact that he otherwise seems to be rather dim witted. Intelligent people don't introduce themselves by claiming to be intelligent, know what I mean?

 

[D H]

... but they have to except everyone who is willing too, regardless of ability or status.

A non-MENSA member speaking here, so no bones to pick.

No, they don't. It is not yet illegal to discriminate against those with lesser ability. Were that the case, every organization that grants scholarships based on ability would be doing so illegally, be that ability athletic, intelligence, whatever. Should the US come to this sad state of affairs, all that would mean is that said organizations would lose their tax-exempt status. It is none of your frickin' business to say who should or should not be allowed to join an organization in which you do not belong and that obeys all extant laws.

 

[turbo]

Intelligent people don't introduce themselves by claiming to be intelligent, know what I mean?

Evo, successful actuaries are no smarter than successful engineers. They just refer to different tables.

The difference is not in raw intelligence (although what is that anyway?!) but in the ability to make observations, integrate observations, make and test inferences based on these observations, and extrapolate with some new ideas (for new phenomonological tests, not wild speculation!). Have we managed to instill this in our current crop of kids? Not yet.

 

[Gilligan08]

A non-MENSA member speaking here, so no bones to pick.

No, they don't. It is not yet illegal to discriminate against those with lesser ability. Were that the case, every organization that grants scholarships based on ability would be doing so illegally, be that ability athletic, intelligence, whatever. Should the US come to this sad state of affairs, all that would mean is that said organizations would lose their tax-exempt status. It is none of your frickin' business to say who should or should not be allowed to join an organization in which you do not belong and that obeys all extant laws.

Wow, not sure how you were able to mangle the conversation in that way but, I never said it was illegal or even suggested that it should be. I said I disagree with the ideaology of groups that do that. That is it. I fully agree that people have the complete legal and natural right to join MENSA.

As far as the golf thing goes, its a sport. I don't think it really falls under the same kinda thing as MENSA. Certainly there are everything from Rec leagues to professional leagues as far as that goes. Where's the competion in MENSA, there isn't any. All it does is let's everyone know you have a high IQ.

I guess if I were to join MENSA it would be for strictly social or philanthropic reasons. But, then again I could probably think of some better group for that reason that didnt exclude anyone.

 

[Art]

Do they go around claiming that they are better than the general public? That's what I dislike about Mensa members. I can't tell you how many times some moron will contact me saying he's a Mensa member as if that will make up for the fact that he otherwise seems to be rather dim witted. Intelligent people don't introduce themselves by claiming to be intelligent, know what I mean?

Bearing in mind there are only 60,000 MENSA members in the US from a pop of 350,000,000 it is incredible you have met so many as to allow you to form such a firm opinion unless of course some or all of the braggarts you met were lying about their membership. Think about those numbers for a moment. Only 1 in 6000 people in the US are members. Most folk would not communicate in any depth with 6000 people in a lifetime so the odds of meeting even 1 genuine member is slim and the odds of that person mentioning their membership even slimmer so the liklihood is those obnoxious people you refer to are indeed unintelligent and to try and impress you otherwise falsly claim membership of MENSA.

All the members I know (including myself) and I know quite a few from the meetings I referred to, never mention their membership to anyone they know in the real world mainly because it's irrelevant in the course of most conversations and because of the reaction it engenders from some people unqualified to join, know what I mean?

And if you have never met a golfer who bragged about his handicap then I'm astonished. I would consider most golf clubs and societies to be far more elitist than MENSA.

 

[Chi Meson]

Art,

Does Mensa have an online forum yet that doesn't require Compuserve?

Back in 1994, it was my reason for joining both. Later, I found that anyone who had Compuserve didn't need to be a member of Mensa to participate in the Mensa forum. It was pretty good, I must say. A lot of interesting discussions, exactly as it is here. It was my erstwhile online home for four years or so, much the way PF is now.

Then I went back to Mac, switched from Compuserve (not Mac-friendly at the time) and the Mensa forum was lost. That's when I tried their mailserve chat groups. Rubbish.

That was in 1999, and occasionally since then I would see if the Mensans had figured out how to get a true online community going.

 

[J77]

Is being a member of MENSA comparable to being a Freemason... ?

btw. I just got 141 on a facebook IQ test, do you think they'd let me join...

 

[Art]

Chi - Not that I know of in the format you mentioned though as a somewhat sedentary member there could well be one I am unaware of. I know there is a US SIG named NTN (National Trivia Network) which I believe operates as an online forum but as a SIG membership would be restricted to MENSA members.

 

[Art]

Is being a member of MENSA comparable to being a Freemason... ?

btw. I just got 141 on a facebook IQ test, do you think they'd let me join...

Only if you also know the secret handshake, can prove a blood connection to royalty and have a par handicap in golf. Gotta keep the standards up

 

[Chi Meson]

Is being a member of MENSA comparable to being a Freemason... ?

I think riding around in little cars wearing silly hats would be a big step up for Mensa.

 

[Art]

I wonder why it is that people who excel in other disciplines such as football or motor racing and of course golf are idolised whilst people who stand out from their peers by virtue of their intelligence are held up as objects of ridicule and scorn. I am sure many people on this forum would have first hand experience of the abuse even children receive from their peers if they display academic excellence. This same prejudice perhaps explains why top physicists and the like earn a fraction of the salary top sportsmen earn whilst their contribution to society is arguably far greater.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I wonder why it is that people who excel in other disciplines such as football or motor racing and of course golf are idolised whilst people who stand out from their peers by virtue of their intelligence are held up as objects of ridicule and scorn.

For me, the issue is not the intelligence, but the membership. What is the point in joining a group of people whose only common feature is their test scores? In IQ tests, I consistently score 2 or 3 points below the requirement. A simple rounding error could get me in. Mensa accepts any qualifying score, regardless of how many times you failed to qualify. However, in addition to IQ tests, they also accept GRE scores. On the basis of my scores (from more than 30 years ago), I qualify in a breeze. I suppose the reason for the discrepency is that despite the similarities, these two tests quantify different things. Did you join to meet other people who tested well in their IQ scores, or was it the GRE's that attracted you?

At any rate, I qualify. Now give me one good reason to part with $30 a year. I would get the satisfaction of someone telling me that I am smart. Now that I know I qualify, I've already been told, haven't I? , Anyway, my mother has always said that, and my wife and kids never will. To meet other people who can get the next number in the sequence as well as or better than I, while avoiding those who can't? My mother can't count to three without making two mistakes, can I at least wave to her from the window? My wife, on the other hand, may not do well in those kinds of tests, but she has an intelligence about her that shines in all she does. Can I send her a postcard at least?

 

[Art]

For me, the issue is not the intelligence, but the membership. What is the point in joining a group of people whose only common feature is their test scores? In IQ tests, I consistently score 2 or 3 points below the requirement. A simple rounding error could get me in. Mensa accepts any qualifying score, regardless of how many times you failed to qualify. However, in addition to IQ tests, they also accept GRE scores. On the basis of my scores (from more than 30 years ago), I qualify in a breeze. I suppose the reason for the discrepency is that despite the similarities, these two tests quantify different things. Did you join to meet other people who tested well in their IQ scores, or was it the GRE's that attracted you?

At any rate, I qualify. Now give me one good reason to part with $30 a year. I would get the satisfaction of someone telling me that I am smart. Now that I know I qualify, I've already been told, haven't I? , Anyway, my mother has always said that, and my wife and kids never will. To meet other people who can get the next number in the sequence as well as or better than I, while avoiding those who can't? My mother can't count to three without making two mistakes, can I at least wave to her from the window? My wife, on the other hand, may not do well in those kinds of tests, but she has an intelligence about her that shines in all she does. Can I send her a postcard at least?

Why do you consistently take IQ tests?

What is the point of forming a club for adults to hit a little ball around a field with a stick? What is the point of a club whose members kick an air filled ball up and down a field? Do you question the raison d'etre of these clubs too?

Are you a member of any club or society? Do you only communicate exclusively with members of that club? Do you know of anyone who limits themselves in such a way? My guess is probably not so why would you make such an absurd assumption about members of MENSA who btw are encouraged to bring their partners and children to all get-togethers.

 

[Zenparticle]

I wonder why it is that people who excel in other disciplines such as football or motor racing and of course golf are idolised whilst people who stand out from their peers by virtue of their intelligence are held up as objects of ridicule and scorn. I am sure many people on this forum would have first hand experience of the abuse even children receive from their peers if they display academic excellence. This same prejudice perhaps explains why top physicists and the like earn a fraction of the salary top sportsmen earn whilst their contribution to society is arguably far greater.

Maybe it's just me, I haven't seen anyone excelling in school being ridiculed. I have however seen how kids that do not do well academically ridiculed, put down and tossed to the curb. I agree that professional athletes are payed enormous amounts of money and scientists are not, maybe NBC/ABC should air a science competition and start making action figures, hats, shoes- you name it and put that stuff on TV then most would, like sheep follow to be like the person in the box...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Why do you consistently take IQ tests?

I took three, the last one about 40 years ago.

What is the point of forming a club for adults to hit a little ball around a field with a stick?

To hit the ball with the stick.

What is the point of a club whose members kick an air filled ball up and down a field?

To kick a ball.

So what do you do at a Mensa meeting? Solve 'which one doesn't belong' puzzles?

 

[Art]

To hit the ball with the stick.


To kick a ball.?

Which some people might dismiss as rather pointless

So what do you do at a Mensa meeting? Solve 'which one doesn't belong' puzzles

Sometimes they organise mental challenge competitions comparable to physical challenge competitions but as I've already explained it's mostly about meeting people and convivial conversations. Much as this forum tends to attract intelligent people who switch readily beween the technical and the non-technical areas of this site. Birds of a feather tend to flock together.

 

[Art]

Maybe it's just me, I haven't seen anyone excelling in school being ridiculed. I have however seen how kids that do not do well academically ridiculed, put down and tossed to the curb. I agree that professional athletes are payed enormous amounts of money and scientists are not, maybe NBC/ABC should air a science competition and start making action figures, hats, shoes- you name it and put that stuff on TV then most would, like sheep follow to be like the person in the box...

I think John Lennon summed it up best in Working Class Hero. "They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool"

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Birds of a feather tend to flock together.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. What feather? The issue is not pointlessness. I'm one of those who thinks kicking a ball around is pointless. Well, goal-less. That is, without object. But I recognize that it is a common interest for those clubs. What is the common interest for Mensa members. Their own literature claims that there isn't any. So what do you get with Mensa membership that I don't get when I go down to the corner bar? It seems like IQ puzzle solving is the only commonality. But it isn't even an interest in them that is common, just a facility with them.

 

[Evo]

Art, it's not being intelligent that people ridicule, it's the mentality of people that feel a need to have someone validate that they are smart. To me a validation of intelligence is what you have achieved academically or professionally, and more importantly, what comes out out of your mouth, so to speak.

Since I hang out online and in real life at places frequented by intelligent people, (I used to date a prominent attorney here that headed a lot of the charity balls and other social soirees) I don't find the number of Mensa members disproportionate, of course some are probably lying. You know how many very intelligent people hang out at PF, do you doubt any of them when they say they were or could have joined Mensa? You do seem rather touchy about the fact that you are a member. I'm sure not all Mensa members are pompous windbags. Just remember, you personally aren't being ridiculed, it's the "Mensa mentality" that's just too easy to poke fun at. I personally poke more fun at the "druids" that walk in circles around Stonehenge dressed in sheets once or twice each year. Do you suppose some of them are also Mensa members?

 

[Art]

Art, it's not being intelligent that people ridicule, it's the mentality of people that feel a need to have someone validate that they are smart. To me a validation of intelligence is what you have achieved academically or professionally, and more importantly, what comes out out of your mouth, so to speak.

Since I hang out online and in real life at places frequented by intelligent people, (I used to date a prominent attorney here that headed a lot of the charity balls and other social soirees) I don't find the number of Mensa members disproportionate, of course some are probably lying. You know how many very intelligent people hang out at PF, do you doubt any of them when they say they were or could have joined Mensa? You do seem rather touchy about the fact that you are a member. I'm sure not all Mensa members are pompous windbags. Just remember, you personally aren't being ridiculed, it's the "Mensa mentality" that's just too easy to poke fun at. I personally poke more fun at the "druids" that walk in circles around Stonehenge dressed in sheets once or twice each year. Do you suppose some of them are also Mensa members?

To be honest there are some I would doubt but undoubtedly many here would qualify which helps make my point - 1 out of every 50 people are eligible to join MENSA so it is far less elitist than popular misconception would portray. It's official charter states ...

Mensa "provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. Its activities include the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, journals, special-interest groups, and local, regional, national, and international gatherings; the investigations of members' opinions and attitudes; and assistance to researchers, inside and outside Mensa, in projects dealing with intelligence or Mensa." [Mensa Constitution]

My personal opinion is it is used mainly as a networking forum where people can make useful business and social contacts which I think is the underlying reason for the existence of many clubs which is why I am genuinely puzzled by the degree it is singled out for criticism.

This thread was formed to ask who is a member and since I said I was it seems all the vitriol and demands for justifying it's existence are directed at me so I'm just having a little fun

This idea that people join to bolster their ego is slightly paradoxical. Surely the way to appear smart and thus massage your ego is to hang out with stupid people not with the brightest where you can be a very small fish in a big pond.

btw another reason for being a member is their monthly magazine which can have some interesting articles in it. This month's main feature is Global Warming lol

 

[Gilligan08]

To be honest there are some I would doubt but undoubtedly many here would qualify which helps make my point - 1 out of every 50 people are eligible to join MENSA so it is far less elitist than popular misconception would portray. It's official charter states ...My personal opinion is it is used mainly as a networking forum where people can make useful business and social contacts which I think is the underlying reason for the existence of many clubs which is why I am genuinely puzzled by the degree it is singled out for criticism.

This thread was formed to ask who is a member and since I said I was it seems all the vitriol and demands for justifying it's existence are directed at me so I'm just having a little fun

This idea that people join to bolster their ego is slightly paradoxical. Surely the way to appear smart and thus massage your ego is to hang out with stupid people not with the brightest where you can be a very small fish in a big pond.

btw another reason for being a member is their monthly magazine which can have some interesting articles in it. This month's main feature is Global Warming lol

I think your losing the point here. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that these social groups can be fun and even usefull, I just think why exclude people from an social organization? I mean I realize I am an Idealist but I think social groups should be open to all. I see no point to join this specific organization. I would rather join my idealistic "come one, come all" group ( no requirements ).

As far as the sport bashing is concerned why is everyone hating on hitting a ball with a stick. Sure there may be no great philosophical reason to do it, but it's fun (from someone who hit a ball with a stick for 12 years of his life). Of Course not everyone might find it fun. Cant sit in physics building all the time which ironically I am writing from.

And the reason Athletes make so much money is because there is a huge demand for them. Physicist not so much, even though there contributions might be considered greater by the people of this forum. But don't be jealous I am sure there lives are stale and unfulfilling. haha!

 

[D H]

Your idealism is, IMHO, misplaced. Many organizations are exclusionary, and rightfully so. A university alumni club restricts membership to those who matriculated from the university. A professional society restricts membership to those who satisfy constitute what the society deems to be a professional. An amateur sports club may preclude professional athletes from participating in events. What is wrong with these restrictions?

 

[Gilligan08]

OK, but what those societies have is common interests. What common interest does MENSA have,talking about High IQ's. Being an Alumni doesn't preclude anyone as long as you graduated. Yes, this could be construed as having a prerequsite for admission but I don't think it really lies along the same grounds as someone who joins MENSA.

And of course sport clubs will exclude profesional players, I don't want MJ stuffing me when I am playing Rec league B-ball, and I don't think he would take to much offense to not being able to play. Sport leagues have to stay within reasonable abilities so everyone has fun. Certainly there are other leagues that better players can join. But the basis of MENSA is to exclude, at that is the prupose of it. Alumni groups don't really exclude anyone unless you didnt graduate from that school. Alumni groups help you stay in contact with people you went to school with and that's it.

Basically the difference is that MENSA was created for the purpose of excluding.

 

[Art]

I doubt there is a single professional in this forum who is not a member of at least one club or society which has conditions of entry and I'm willing to bet their entry conditions would be more stringent and so would exclude a lot more of the population than MENSA's do.

 

[Gilligan08]

Well I am not a professional yet, so I don't know what it takes to be in one of these groups. But I am in groups on campus, none of which have resctictions on who can join. So there are plenty of groups out there that are open for membership. I guess I see MENSA as having a VERY loose connection between its members. There is no really commonality in just having a High IQ. I don't even know my own, because my parents decided to never tell me (probably because I'm an idiot, and they didnt know how to tell me). But really because my father used to administer IQ tests while working for the Public Health Service and he absolutly thinks they have no bearing on someones chances of success academically (of course this is his own opinion). And I never said MENSA is the only group I disagree with. I might object to whatever organizations you are referring too. This idea of joining a group to set yourself apart from others has always bothered me for some reason. Sport leagues and most things like this arent created for the intention of excluding. MENSA and things like Fraternities have no other real purpose except excluding. I feel like these are silly things that help people to build an identity. A quick alternate solution to finding ones self, is to create yourself by identifying with a smaller group. But, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion. In fact I might very well be.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I doubt there is a single professional in this forum who is not a member of at least one club or society which has conditions of entry and I'm willing to bet their entry conditions would be more stringent and so would exclude a lot more of the population than MENSA's do.

Take the Rittenhouse Astronomical Society for instance. It too provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. Its activities include the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, journals, special-interest groups, and local and regional gatherings; and assistance to researchers, inside and outside the Society, in projects dealing with astronomy. Although there is an expectation that you wouldn't join unless you were interested in astronomy, there are no conditions of entry other than a membership fee, and meetings are not restricted to members and their guests.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

By the way, here is their web site:
Rittenhouse Astronomical Society

Here is a description of 'Members Night", emphasis mine:

Members Night November 14th! This is an opportunity for members to present a topic of astronomical or scientific interest. It can be one they are directly involved with (like attending one of the many Star Parties by various astronomy clubs) or an interest, possibly a skill they wish to share with fellow members. Please contact us if you are interested in giving a 10 or 15 minute mini-presentation! A possible theme to consider is "Astronomy Gimmicks, Guides and Gear" (9/28/07)

All Call For Members Night ! Although members present our topics for the evening, the public is welcome to attend. Check out our meeting line-up for ideas we have submitted so far...still more openings to consider your presentation! (10/15/07)

Attendence is not restricted to members even on members night.

 

[wildman]

Most people’s jobs and lives are pretty boring. Life is especially boring for the extremely bright caught in mundane work. This can cause a person to feel the need to affirm that they are intelligent and worthy. MENSA plays this role. As such it can be quite beneficial to those people.

On the other hand, if you are a bright star in engineering or scientific research, looking forward to each day’s adventure, you don’t need something like MENSA. Actually you would find it silly. After all, who needs someone to affirm your intelligence after spending the day doing something like solving a trajectory problem that brings the Space Shuttle home safely or doing research that will end up published in "Nature"?

 

[Zantra]

IMHO, if you are truly gifted intellectually artistically, or otherwise, you most likely already know, and don't require validation from a test or a membership to tell you so. I doubt someone with a 150+ IQ takes the test, and is profoundly overwhelmed by the brand new concept that he/she is not a moron. They knew by the time they were 10 years old.

Everyone seeks some kind of validity. Mensa is not that means. Learn a new language, create a new language, invent a cooler video game or write a book. Do something worthwhile. If you're not using it, you shouldn't be bragging about having it. because that just makes it a waste. I believe that being gifted and not using it (as is the case with many of the mensa members I've heard) is worse than not having the gift at all. I've never heard positive things about Mensa. I'm sure when it was founded, it was altrustic and brought together the collective intellectual giants of it's time. Obviously that has changed in general.