Is Rick Santorum's Religious Extremism a Deal Breaker for Voters?

[Moonbear]

So women should be disallowed from serving in the front lines because men lack the discipline to stick to the mission?

This is a pattern I notice quite often, not just with respect to women in the military, but many other excuses for denying women equal rights. It leaves me wondering whether those coming up with these excuses are really misogynistic, or actually misandristic? (However that ought to be spelled.) It seems the issue they worry about isn't that women aren't strong enough to serve in the roles, but that men are too weak and easily distracted to serve with them.

 

[jreelawg]

The way I see it, Santorum thinks that America was almost perfect, and now in modern times is being taken over by Satan.

Where as Obama, in my opinion thinks that those times in the past, when black people and women were suppressed etc, were actually bad, and that modern times, when people are free, can get an education and be hopeful to the future etc, is good.

They are practically opposite views. Also, the way that they each conduct themselves in regards to their religion is very different. Obama, has focused on helping his community, he is concerned with the plight of the poor, and middle class, and seams to be a charitable guy by nature. These values make sense if he is a christian, as they are the type of values that Jesus supposedly held.

In contrast, Santorum, a wealthy man, has pretty much no history of charity, and in fact rants against it. He has stated he is not concerned with the poor. These are values which seam to go against his own religion.

Personally, I think that people can for the most part make whatever they will out of their faith. There is so much fighting over who is and who isn't an authentic christian.

To me, the type of Christian who seams to focus on good will towards others, and hope and all that stuff, don't scare me.

It's the ones who try to rally angry mobs with angry speeches about apocalyptic spiritual battles who scare me.

 

[CAC1001]

We have scare-mongers on the right warning against the establishment of "Sharia Law" in the US, but some of them appear to want to establish fundamentalist theology as a foundation of our government. I have problems with that.

I agree with the threat regarding Sharia law. There are some very radicalized Muslims in the European nations trying to do this right now. I partially agree regarding the fundamentalist theology. While you do have some people who want to force their theology onto people's lives, you don't have the threat of radical Christians forming areas of the country where the police won't even go into because they're so radicalized (as there are in Germany and France for example wrt radical Muslims), of such Christian radicals saying that they want to create "Christian law" zones of major cities, where their "Christian law" will dominate (in London for example, some radical Muslims want to create Sharia law-controlled areas). And some could say such acts are just of some radicals who shouldn't be taken seriously, but if a group of radical Christians decided to put up posters in neighborhoods of major American cities declaring them "(insert radical Christian theology) zones" it would probably be all over the news.

 

[WhoWee]

We have scare-mongers on the right warning against the establishment of "Sharia Law" in the US, but some of them appear to want to establish fundamentalist theology as a foundation of our government. I have problems with that.

Has Santorum (topic of thread) indicated that he wants "to establish fundamentalist theology as a foundation of our government" - or are you referring to comments made by someone else?

 

[jreelawg]

Santorum- "I didn't say black people".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnjEYcT6n-s&feature=related

Santorum - Black people comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dUqYnbS6m4&feature=related

 

[WhoWee]

Santorum- "I didn't say black people".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnjEYcT6n-s&feature=related

Santorum - Black people comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dUqYnbS6m4&feature=related

It sounded like he said "blind people" - either way - what is the problem his policy?

 

[jreelawg]

It's just funny watching him try to lie about it.

 

[Alfi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=F0XkXRoT558
Re: a date night with Obama. I wondered if Santorum knew how much praise he was heaping on Obama ... then

oh you oh you ... but this is a waste of money ... use yer local bar eh pres.
Impress the country or impress your date ... ? hehehe

when the Prez does a date ... why hold back.

( personaly ... I hope the prez is a 'mile high' club member on AirForce1 ... I would be. :) )

 

[Office_Shredder]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57384204-503544/santorum-obama-wants-to-indoctrinate-students-by-boosting-college-enrollment/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.4

On the president's efforts to boost college attendance, Santorum said, "I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely ... The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."

The man's a loon.

 

[Hobin]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57384204-503544/santorum-obama-wants-to-indoctrinate-students-by-boosting-college-enrollment/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.4
The man's a loon.

I'm not an American, but for the sake of that (and my own) country, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't get elected.

 

[ThomasT]

I'm not an American, but for the sake of that (and my own) country, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't get elected.

I don't think he will, but then I didn't think that G.W. Bush would get elected either. Of course in the first election he didn't actually get elected. Maybe the same sort of thing could happen with Santorum or ... Romney. Considering this, maybe I will vote for Obama.

 

[MarcoD]

Ah, well, we're just kids in a sandbox for grown-ups.

(I am the one most to the left.)

 

[WhoWee]

Does anyone want to discuss Santorum's voting record or comments about the economy (very pro-manufacturing) or foreign policy (very tough on Iran)?

 

[ThomasT]

Does anyone want to discuss Santorum's voting record or comments about the economy (very pro-manufacturing) or foreign policy (very tough on Iran)?

I'd prefer to focus on his religious fanaticism. But if you have something to offer in favor of Santorum, then what is it?

 

[WhoWee]

I'd prefer to focus on his religious fanaticism. But if you have something to offer in favor of Santorum, then what is it?

Has he ever given a religious speech on the floor of the US Senate?

 

[ThomasT]

Has he ever given a religious speech on the floor of the US Senate?

I don't know. I only watch C-Span intermittently. It would be cool, imho, but I don't think he's that stupid. Then again, I'm just waiting for some sort of quote like "God told me to ... " whatever. I just hope it doesn't happen while he's president. But I don't really think there's much chance of that happening.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't know. I only watch C-Span intermittently. It would be cool, imho, but I don't think he's that stupid. Then again, I'm just waiting for some sort of quote like "God told me to ... " whatever. I just hope it doesn't happen while he's president. But I don't really think there's much chance of that happening.

I've watched Santorum for a long time - he's all business. This emphasis on social policy has been media driven - IMO.

 

[ThomasT]

I've watched Santorum for a long time - he's all business. This emphasis on social policy has been media driven - IMO.

So, you don't think he's a religious fanatic? What, just a good actor appealing to the religious right base?

 

[Evo]

Does anyone if this forum seriously think they'll vote for him?

Santorum is not merely engaged in a culture war, but “a spiritual war,” as he called it four years ago. “The Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country — the United States of America,” he told students at Ave Maria University in Florida. He added that mainline Protestantism in this country “is in shambles. It is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.”

Satan strikes, a Catholic exorcist told me, when there are “soul wounds.” Santorum, who is considered “too Catholic” even by my über-Catholic brothers, clearly believes that America’s soul wounds include men and women having sex for reasons other than procreation, people involved in same-sex relationships, women using contraception or having prenatal testing, environmentalists who elevate “the Earth above man,” women working outside the home, “anachronistic” public schools, Mormonism (which he said is considered “a dangerous cult” by some Christians), and President Obama (whom he obliquely and oddly compared to Hitler and accused of having “some phony theology”).

Bolding mine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/opinion/dowd-ricks-religious-fanaticism.html?_r=1

 

[ThomasT]

Does anyone if this forum seriously think they'll vote for him?

He's a strange person ... to me. But, apparently, not so strange to, maybe, about half of America. Scary? Maybe. But then I remember the environement I grew up in. For example, African Americans were prohibited by law from being within the town limits after 6 pm. The evangelical Baptist church reigned supreme, even in a town which was predominantly Catholic.

As far as I can tell, it isn't a whole lot different today. I'm just glad I left. But the point is that a large part of America is in tune with Santorum and other Christian religious zealots. Better than fundamentalist Muslims I guess. At least I know what I'm dealing with. But sort of sad, imho, nonetheless.

 

[WhoWee]

Since Santorum's religious statements are the only topic of discussion - when he said (from the above posted New York Times Opinion Page) "“Satan has his sights on the United States of America,” " - wasn't he trying metaphorically to say the US is a "good place" - and if we're not careful - it will become a bad place?

 

[ThomasT]

Since Santorum's religious statements are the only topic of discussion - when he said (from the above posted New York Times Opinion Page) "“Satan has his sights on the United States of America,” " - wasn't he trying metaphorically to say the US is a "good place" - and if we're not careful - it will become a bad place?

It could be taken that way. But he, like other devout Christians I've known, seems to believe that there actually is a supernatural being, Satan, with extended human-like traits, and who is the precipitator of evil in the world.

I don't think he takes the mythological constructs of Christianity as metaphors. I think he's operating from a literalist understanding of the Christian bible.

I don't want to think he's that ... backward. But he did after all say it the way he said it.

 

[WhoWee]

From the link in post #193 - my bold - he's his own worst enemy. my color change

"PHOENIX--Rick Santorum on Tuesday stood by comments he made in 2008 about Satan attacking the United States, telling reporters here that he is going to “stay on message” and continue to talk about jobs, security, and “taking on forces around this world who want to do harm to America.”

The three-year-old speech is getting renewed scrutiny after several Web-based publications circulated audio and text of his remarks over the holiday weekend. Speaking to a group at Ave Maria University in Naples, Fla., Santorum said, “This is not a political war at all. This is not a cultural war at all. This is a spiritual war. And the Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies, Satan, would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country: the United States of America.”

When reporters asked about the comments at a rally on Tuesday evening, Santorum said, “I believe in good and evil. I think if somehow or another, because you’re a person of faith, you believe in good and evil [and it’s] a disqualifier for president, we’re going to have a very small pool of candidates who can run for president.”
Asked whether he still thinks that Satan is attacking the United States, Santorum called the inquiry “not relevant to what’s being discussed in America today.”

“If they want to dig up old speeches of me talking to religious groups, they can go ahead and do so, but I’m going to stay on message and I’m going to talk about things that Americans want to talk about,” Santorum said, “which is creating jobs, making our country more secure, and, yeah, taking on the forces around his world who want to do harm to America, and you bet I will take them on.”

Earlier, he pledged to “defend everything I say” after noting that people might worry about his statements because he isn’t “robotic” like some of the more “commoditized candidates.”"

 

[ThomasT]

... he's his own worst enemy. ...

Only wrt people who don't believe as he does. The problem is that there are lots of people who do believe as he does.

 

[mege]

Only wrt people who don't believe as he does. The problem is that there are lots of people who do believe as he does.

Isn't that the point of an election?

 

[WhoWee]

Only wrt people who don't believe as he does. The problem is that there are lots of people who do believe as he does.

Isn't the whole point of campaigning to attract a larger base? If he stops commenting - it will go away. Let's not forget, there will be two people (along with their running mates) in the general election. If old comments are fair game for one candidate - they will be fair game for the other. IMO - everyone would prefer to focus on the present and future given the economy, the national debt, the Middle East, etc.

 

[ThomasT]

Isn't that the point of an election?

WhoWee suggested that Santorum is his own worst enemy. I suggested that, wrt about half of America, he isn't. Wrt the Christian Right we could say that Obama is his own worst enemy. And so on.

 

[ThomasT]

Isn't the whole point of campaigning to attract a larger base?

Of course. I just commented on your "he's his own worst enemy" comment. Wrt who is he his own worst enemy? Obviously, imo, not wrt extreme Christians.

If he stops commenting - it will go away.

His fundamental base? Yes, I agree. But you seemed to suggest that his comments were hurting him. And I agree that his comments hurt him wrt people outside his fundamental extremist Christian base.

IMO - everyone would prefer to focus on the present and future given the economy, the national debt, the Middle East, etc.

When a candidate's opinions/policies are based on a belief in the canons of ancient mythology, then I think this affects his fitness wrt the responsibilities of the chief executive. That is, the single most important thing to consider about Santorum is, imo, the fact that he's a theistic religious fanatic. This apparent fact is, by itself, enough for me to exclude him from consideration. And, this apparent fact is, by itself, enough for many Americans, maybe about half eventually, to consider him the only acceptable candidate.

 

[WhoWee]

WhoWee suggested that Santorum is his own worst enemy. I suggested that, wrt about half of America, he isn't. Wrt the Christian Right we could say that Obama is his own worst enemy. And so on.

Please stay focused on Santorum - comments about Obama are off topic.

 

[WhoWee]

Of course. I just commented on your "he's his own worst enemy" comment. Wrt who is he his own worst enemy? Obviously, imo, not wrt extreme Christians.

His fundamental base? Yes, I agree. But you seemed to suggest that his comments were hurting him. And I agree that his comments hurt him wrt people outside his fundamental extremist Christian base.

When a candidate's opinions/policies are based on a belief in the canons of ancient mythology, then I think this affects his fitness wrt the responsibilities of the chief executive. That is, the single most important thing to consider about Santorum is, imo, the fact that he's a theistic religious fanatic. This apparent fact is, by itself, enough for me to exclude him from consideration. And, this apparent fact is, by itself, enough for many Americans, maybe about half eventually, to consider him the only acceptable candidate.

I don't think the general public is so one dimensional in their thinking that only social issues or religious beliefs will determine the fate of the candidate - unless the other issues (economy, foreign affairs, pending legislation, recently enacted legislation, court appointments, budget/failure to budget, taxes, deicits) are not equally considered.

 

[WhoWee]

If we can advance this - I think Santorum was his own worst enemy (with his base including the TEA Party) when he called politics a team sport in the AZ debate.

 

[ThomasT]

Please stay focused on Santorum - comments about Obama are off topic.

It's not off topic if it helps to illustrate a point about the topic.

 

[ThomasT]

I don't think the general public is so one dimensional in their thinking that only social issues or religious beliefs will determine the fate of the candidate - unless the other issues (economy, foreign affairs, pending legislation, recently enacted legislation, court appointments, budget/failure to budget, taxes, deicits) are not equally considered.

I don't that the other issues are equally considered. That is, I don't think they're as important to Santorum's base, or those outside his base, as his religiosity.

 

[WhoWee]

It's not off topic if it helps to illustrate a point about the topic.

I'm not certain that is correct.

 

[ThomasT]

If we can advance this - I think Santorum was his own worst enemy (with his base including the TEA Party) when he called politics a team sport in the AZ debate.

Ok, that might well be the case. Do you happen to have a link for that handy. If not, I'll Google it.