Is the Woolwich Attack a Reflection of Broader Terrorist Ideologies?

[ImATrackMan]

I have to question that notion that it heightens racial tensions. Islam is a religion, not a race.

So antisemitism isn't racism, then?

 

[Lavabug]

'Jewish' actually does denote an ethnnoreligious group, unlike the word muslim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish

So if by antisemtism you mean the colloquial expression for hatred of jews, it is very much racism by definition, unlike "Islamophobia".

Edit:

Here are some real eye-openers/jaw-droppers:
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/

 

[ImATrackMan]

Sorry, I was thinking of racial/religious prejudice. Carry on.

 

[Intrastellar]

I like to show this video when such discussions occur. I recommend that everyone watches it.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Here are some real eye-openers/jaw-droppers:
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpyco...ink-of-the-uk/

It's good to know what these people think, so we can work hard to make sure their wishes never come true. Those Muslims basically want a world devoid of happiness.

 

[russ_watters]

Sorry, I was thinking of racial/religious prejudice. Carry on.

Part of the problem is that there is no single-word label for hating someone else for their religion (religism?) or ethnicity (ethnism?), favorite sports team (Yankeesism?) or whatever. So people overuse "racism", broadening it to cover other types of hate. The overuse doesn't actually have any impact on the discussion though so there is no point in hairsplitting it.

 

[russ_watters]

I like to show this video when such discussions occur. I recommend that everyone watches it.

Uh, what? He's suggesting there are American troops in Saudia Arabia and Kuwait, Iran, etc. oppressing the people on behalf of their governments?

Bin Laden, a Saudi, hated us in part because we had troops in Saudia Arabia. Were they there to oppress the Saudi people and protect the Saudi government from a popular uprising? Uh, no, they were there because the Saudi government begged us to protect them from the imperialistic dictator next door!

Analogy fail.

It frightens me that he teaches classes in that sort of thing. "As a sociologist, I understand." Well you can't understand much if you have most of the key facts wrong.

 

[lisab]

Part of the problem is that there is no single-word label for hating someone else for their religion (religism?) or ethnicity (ethnism?), favorite sports team (Yankeesism?) or whatever. So people overuse "racism", broadening it to cover other types of hate. The overuse doesn't actually have any impact on the discussion though so there is no point in hairsplitting it.

That's a stunning observation...how many millions of humans have been killed due to hatred of their religion, yet we have no "ism" word for it specifically. I've never noticed that !

"Bigot" is an umbrella term for all those -isms you mentioned. But it's kind of diluted.

It's always bothered me that "racism" is used in reference to Hispanics, but "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race.

 

[Evo]

I think it's just loosely referred to as "religious intolerance". And you're both right, ethnicity is frequently confused with race.

 

[russ_watters]

"Bigot" is an umbrella term for all those -isms you mentioned.

"Bigot" is an appropriate umbrella term, but it is a label for the person (racist/bigot), no the ideology (racism).

[edit] Oh, but there is "bigotry".

 

[Intrastellar]

Uh, what? He's suggesting there are American troops in Saudia Arabia and Kuwait, Iran, etc. oppressing the people on behalf of their governments?

Bin Laden, a Saudi, hated us in part because we had troops in Saudia Arabia. Were they there to oppress the Saudi people and protect the Saudi government from a popular uprising? Uh, no, they were there because the Saudi government begged us to protect them from the imperialistic dictator next door!

Analogy fail.

It frightens me that he teaches classes in that sort of thing. "As a sociologist, I understand." Well you can't understand much if you have most of the key facts wrong.

did you even finish watching the video ? if so then you have missed the point completely.
you can just change Iraq into the invaded Muslim countries, a Muslim in Iran is mad because a Muslim in Palestine has his land taken from him (whether this is the truth is not our topic of discussion), this should be obvious if you have listened to what the murderer said in the video.

If your point is that this is not what people in the middle east think (Iraq in particular, the example given by the video), then clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm an Iraqi, and most of my contacts is with Iraqi people both inside and outside Iraq, and I can say that what the video mentions resembles to a good degree how Iraqi people think. What this video tries to do is to make you understand why would they react in that way.

In that aspect, you are not different from the terrorists you are ranting about, you as well refuse to admit the existence of another point of view, never mind the validity of it.
I hate bin laden as well, and all kinds of terrorism or extremism that this act or any similar one show, but I was trying to offer another point of view, which you not only reject but "frightens you"

 

[aquitaine]

Part of the problem is that there is no single-word label for hating someone else for their religion (religism?) or ethnicity (ethnism?), favorite sports team (Yankeesism?) or whatever. So people overuse "racism", broadening it to cover other types of hate. The overuse doesn't actually have any impact on the discussion though so there is no point in hairsplitting it.

For some people that's probably the case, but for me it's a matter of values. I don't care that their Man in the Sky has a different name, since I'm an atheist it's all nonsense anyway, but I do care that they still practice what amounts to levitical law. Maybe "valueist" would be a better description.

you can just change Iraq into the invaded Muslim countries, a Muslim in Iran is mad because a Muslim in Palestine has his land taken from him (whether this is the truth is not our topic of discussion), this should be obvious if you have listened to what the murderer said in the video.

Egypt was in control of the Gaza strip for a great many years, do you know what they did for the Palestinian people living there? Nothing, because that's not what this is really about. You cannot take these people at their word.

 

[Intrastellar]

Egypt was in control of the Gaza strip for a great many years, do you know what they did for the Palestinian people living there? Nothing, because that's not what this is really about. You cannot take these people at their word.

thank you for the reply. Your point would be valid if we were discussing the stances of the political leaders. My point (and the video) has more to do with discussing the thoughts of the people who are directly involved in terrorism acts, the people who are carrying it out, or the general population. And I assure you that Egyptians I have met do care a lot about that.

 

[boomtrain]

thank you for the reply. Your point would be valid if we were discussing the stances of the political leaders. My point (and the video) has more to do with discussing the thoughts of the people who are directly involved in terrorism acts, the people who are carrying it out, or the general population. And I assure you that Egyptians I have met do care a lot about that.

interesting theory. It's difficult to test the will of the people carrying out terrorist acts or the general populations of their countries of origin. Perhaps by looking at the major sources of aid to the Palestinian people we can get some insight regarding their feelings toward their oppressed co-religionists.

According to the Development Assistance Committee, themain multilateral donors for the 2006–2007 period were UNRWA and the EU (through the European Commission); the main bilateral donors were the US, Japan, Canada and five European countries (Norway, Germany, Sweden, Spain and France).[58] Since 1993 the European Commission and the EU member-states combined have been by far the largest aid contributor to the Palestinians.[59] The Arab League states have also been substantial donors, notably through budgetary support to the PNA during the Second Intifada; they have been however criticized for not sufficiently financing the UNRWA and the PNA, and for balking at their pledges.

 

[Intrastellar]

interesting theory. It's difficult to test the will of the people carrying out terrorist acts or the general populations of their countries of origin. Perhaps by looking at the major sources of aid to the Palestinian people we can get some insight regarding their feelings toward their oppressed co-religionists.

After the 2006 Palestinian elections, the Arab countries tried to contribute to the payment of the Palestinian public servants' wages, bypassing the PNA; at the same time Arab funds were paid directly to Abbas' office for disbursement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians#Major_donors

I did a bit of research and discovered an interesting, yet largely unknown, little fact: Arab states provide less than 3 percent of the annual budget of UNRWA, the UN agency that assists Palestinian refugees throughout the Middle East.

http://freund.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/02/do_arab_states_.html

During the Paris Conference, 11% of the pledges came from the US and Canada, 53% from Europe and 20% from the Arab countries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians#Major_donors

well yea, maybe you are right and I'm wrong after all, I only wanted to offer another point of view.

 

[aquitaine]

thank you for the reply. Your point would be valid if we were discussing the stances of the political leaders. My point (and the video) has more to do with discussing the thoughts of the people who are directly involved in terrorism acts, the people who are carrying it out, or the general population. And I assure you that Egyptians I have met do care a lot about that.

And yet they don't seem to care about muslims killing each other in Iraq or Pakistan? The problem is you're assuming Islamism is some kind of monolithic entity, it isn't. In that imperialist undercurrent carries many Bin Ladens and terrorists of all kinds, some are opposed to each other. With that in mind, I'm not taking what they say seriously.