Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

[CEL]

Do you have a reference re: left/right handed amino acids?

Look at
http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/blaminochiral.htm
or google for chirality

 

[i.neu]

Perhaps there is, perhaps there isn't life "out there". astrobiology/exobiology is still very, very young...we can't formulate anything compelling about life in the universe, yet.As for the Drake equation, it's certainly a long shot... maybe the "Drake Guess" is a more appropriate term than the "Drake Equation".

That being said, I shall adopt the sceptic's position when it comes to extraterrestrials holidaying on Earth. :)

 

[ideasrule]

That being said, I shall adopt the sceptic's position when it comes to extraterrestrials holidaying on Earth. :)

Hush. I'm not "holidaying"; I'm doing scientific research. Don't you see the difference?

 

[baywax]

Look at
http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/blaminochiral.htm
or google for chirality

I still don't think there will be many life forms beyond the types and species we see on earth... and that is one very large number of variations on life.

Vertebrate Animals

Mammals 5,416
Birds 9,956
Reptiles 8,240
Amphibians 6,199
Total Vertebrates 59,811

Invertebrate Animals

Insects 950,000
Molluscs 81,000
Crustaceans 40,000
Corals 2,175
Others 130,200
Total Invertebrates 1,203,375

Plants

Flowering plants (angiosperms) 258,650
Conifers (gymnosperms) 980
Ferns and horsetails 13,025
Mosses 15,000
Red and green algae 9,671
Total Plants 297,326
Others
Lichens 10,000
Mushrooms 16,000
Brown algae 2,849
Total Others 28,849

TOTAL SPECIES 1,589,361

http://www.currentresults.com/Environment-Facts/Plants-Animals/number-species.php


And these are only the known species. At some point we may see a pile of methane that moves and eats and reproduces... but I really doubt it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Invertebrate Animals

Insects 950,000

And 350,000 of those are beetles.

"One thing we can be sure of about God: he had an inordinate fondness for beetles.”

 

[WhoWee]

And 350,000 of those are beetles.

"One thing we can be sure of about God: he had an inordinate fondness for beetles.”

...and yet the "Beatles" said they were more popular (or something?)...

 

[Vectus]

I still don't think there will be many life forms beyond the types and species we see on earth... and that is one very large number of variations on life.

Sorry, but that's absurd. In a potentially extremely different environment with conditions much unlike those on earth, different elemental composition, different selective pressures, a different geological history, potentially different genetic codings for different proteins that may function very differently from ours, ect, ect, there's no telling what kinds of specialized complex life may arise. There are simply too many factors. Not to mention, there are countless ways for a species to effectively fill a niche.

That's not to say that we might not find some species that are somewhat similar or may employ the same general mechanisms as species on earth, but chances are if there are any similarities that they are very basic or very coincidental. The seemingly endless diversity of life here on Earth is testament to this, not the other way around.

 

[CEL]

I still don't think there will be many life forms beyond the types and species we see on earth... and that is one very large number of variations on life.

99% of all the species that ever lived on Earth are now extinct. You should multiply your numbers by 100 to account for terrestrial species.
Anyway, the fact that all existent species use only 20 levogyre amino acids and employ DNA/RNA to code biological information, seems to be of random origin. Life with different origins would be really alien.

 

[WhoWee]

At some point we may see a pile of methane that moves and eats and reproduces... but I really doubt it.

I think we might have one of those in my son's room.

 

[DaveC426913]

I think we might have one of those in my son's room.

(Well, I hope it isn't reproducing! You don't let girls in there do you?)

 

[baywax]

And 350,000 of those are beetles.

"One thing we can be sure of about God: he had an inordinate fondness for beetles.”

How can we be sure about an unsure thing like "god"?
That's as speculative as assuming there are forms of life other than the examples of which have developed on this rock in space during the last 4 billion years.

If there's a methane-based creature in the son's room, check for a meth-lab under the bed. Could be an explosive situation.

 

[WhoWee]

How can we be sure about an unsure thing like "god"?
That's as speculative as assuming there are forms of life other than the examples of which have developed on this rock in space during the last 4 billion years.

If there's a methane-based creature in the son's room, check for a meth-lab under the bed. Could be an explosive situation.

Wow, I was upset about dirty plates/bowls - cereal and uneaten peanut butter and jelly.

No "reproduction" or meth labs in my house.

 

[baywax]

Wow, I was upset about dirty plates/bowls - cereal and uneaten peanut butter and jelly.

No "reproduction" or meth labs in my house.

Ya never know. Actually I thought you might be concerned about a high amount of methane gas production...

 

[Chronos]

Where are the alien artifacts?

 

[WhoWee]

Where are the alien artifacts?

Under the sand, under the ice, deep in the oceans?

 

[baywax]

Where are the alien artifacts?

The appendix?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Where are the alien artifacts?

What is the evidence that we should have any even if ET has visited?

What are we looking for?

Where do we look?

 

[CEL]

What is the evidence that we should have any even if ET has visited?

What are we looking for?

Where do we look?

There are hundreds of reports of abductions by ETs. Proponents of the alien origin of UFOs point some of those reports as evidence of their theory.
Why no abductee was able to steal at least an ashtray from the ship?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There are hundreds of reports of abductions by ETs. Proponents of the alien origin of UFOs point some of those reports as evidence of their theory.
Why no abductee was able to steal at least an ashtray from the ship?

So you are saying that if any visitations by ET did or do happen, abduction claims must be true?

Secondly, what makes anyone think that even if ET abductions were in fact happening, it would be possible to gain evidence? Did POWs come back from Vietnam with Vietnamese ashtrays?

I have never been impressed with abductions claims, but I am even less impressed with the typical objections to those claims. Even asking for an ashtray in itself shows the question is not serious.

 

[CEL]

So you are saying that if any visitations by ET did or do happen, abduction claims must be true?

Secondly, what makes anyone think that even if ET abductions were in fact happening, it would be possible to gain evidence? Did POWs come back from Vietnam with Vietnamese ashtrays?

I have never been impressed with abductions claims, but I am even less impressed with the typical objections to those claims. Even asking for an ashtray in itself shows the question is not serious.

Ashtray is only an example. I seriously doubt that, if aliens are visiting us, they will be smokers.
Besides abductions, there are reports of crashes of spaceships, but no parts of them have been found, unless we believe in a gigantic governments conspiracy to hide the truth.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not sure why you object to this logic.

Secondly, what makes anyone think that even if ET abductions were in fact happening, it would be possible to gain evidence? Did POWs come back from Vietnam with Vietnamese ashtrays?

An alien artifact would be priceless. Nevermind the money/fame, its value is in terms of proving you're not crazy.

There is no motivation for bringing back something from Vietnam. And who says they didn't? Does anyone care? You're analogizing apples with oranges.

Even asking for an ashtray in itself shows the question is not serious.

For the sake of the letter of the question, you seem to miss the spirit of it.

 

[Count Iblis]

Is there life in the universe, and if so has it visited Earth?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Count_Iblis"

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm pretty excited to see "I Know What I Saw" airing October 4 on the History Channel. It will feature the most credible UFO cases and witnesses from around the world.

When I was younger (80's) there used to be shows such as this that (it seemed to me) stuck to the presentation of relatively factual and reliable information, lest they be laughed off the TV.

Lately (in the last decade, or even the last 5 years) I have lost all faith in even the most prefunctory attempts to be factual. Today's shows have ramped up the melodrama many notches and make absolutely no bones about mangling facts, testimonies, historical accounts or anything else to make what they think is a "compelling" show. The recent outbreak of "reality ghost" shows is but one symptom.

While it would be cool to see what progress has been made in the field, or even see the latest accounts, I am not even going to bother watching it, since I know I will be unable to trust a single word of it.

 

[kpax]

Out of the Blue was pretty good. The Peter Jenning's special was accurate, AFAIK, but had no depth. The UFO hunters shows are mostly garbage and the guy who runs them is a complete nut, imo. He is the classic UFO crackpot who sees conspiracies and intervening aliens behind every shadow.

Yeah, Bill from UFO Hunters has the word "UFO" carved into his forehead.

 

[BigFairy]

When I was younger (80's) there used to be shows such as this that (it seemed to me) stuck to the presentation of relatively factual and reliable information, lest they be laughed off the TV.

Lately (in the last decade, or even the last 5 years) I have lost all faith in even the most prefunctory attempts to be factual. Today's shows have ramped up the melodrama many notches and make absolutely no bones about mangling facts, testimonies, historical accounts or anything else to make what they think is a "compelling" show. The recent outbreak of "reality ghost" shows is but one symptom.

While it would be cool to see what progress has been made in the field, or even see the latest accounts, I am not even going to bother watching it, since I know I will be unable to trust a single word of it.

so true DaveC..


also kPax: securing cooperation of thousands of people for cover-up :D

 

[kpax]

also kPax: securing cooperation of thousands of people for cover-up :D

Not sure what you mean by that.

 

[ViewsofMars]

From NASA Ask an Astrobologist:

Have aliens visited Earth? Are UFOs real?
No, there is no evidence for visits of intelligent aliens to Earth, either now or in the past. The are many claims concerning UFOs and aliens, but no evidence to support these claims. The photos that are posted on the Internet are mostly fakes, and no one has ever produced an artifact or any other tangible scientific evidence of UFOs or aliens. One of strongest cases against the reality of these claims is that the group of people who spend the most time observing the sky are amateur astronomers, and they don’t report UFO sightings. If there were any evidence of aliens, astrobiologists would be among to first to hail such a discovery and analyze the data. However, there is no evidence that withstands scientific investigation. If you are still interested, you can use the search engine to find posted answers to specific questions about aliens and UFOs.
http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/faq

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No evidence for visiting ETs? False. There are reams of evidence for this.

No known scientific evidence? True.

It would be nice if people would finally learn that there are many forms of evidence. Scientific evidence is just one of them. This is an elementary concept.

UFOs? Unidentified. There is a difference between a UFO report, and a report of an encounter with ET. That also needs to be recognized by people making uninformed comments.

 

[ViewsofMars]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'll stick with science as noted in previous post! I love science!

Ivan, you said, "No evidence for visiting ETs? False." Ivan, I think people that claim to see aliens have an imagination beyond reality. Until a scientist has examined an alien then obviously there aren't any. I hope you don't think the Hobbit was an ET. ( I did note seeing to this topic of discussion a link you gave to "Credible Anomalies Napster" with mention #40 the Hobbit.) Let's clear this up if that was your intention.

'Hobbit' was a dwarf with large feet
by Rex Dalton

From head to toe, the bones of a metre-tall species dating from somewhere between 17,000 and 95,000 years ago continue to reveal the potential complexities of human evolution.

Two articles published in Nature today focus on Homo floresiensis — one describes how its brain could have dwarfed to its unusually small size1, the other how its large feet, similar to those of chimps, would have allowed it to walk efficiently but probably not to run well on two legs2.
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090506/full/news.2009.448.html

And don't forget to read from the internationally known peer reviewed journal Nature, "Old tools shed light on hobbit origins".
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v441/n7093/full/441559a.html

The following comment of yours is absolutely stripped of evidence! The only time I've noticed people make comments such as yours is when Science has won the debate.

That also needs to be recognized by people making uninformed comments.

 

[BigFairy]

Thanks for the update.

 

[pftest]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'll stick with science as noted in previous post! I love science!

Ivan, you said, "No evidence for visiting ETs? False." Ivan, I think people that claim to see aliens have an imagination beyond reality. Until a scientist has examined an alien then obviously there aren't any.

Thats certainly not a scientific statement. Dinosaurs existed, even before any human or science saw it.

I hope you don't think the Hobbit was an ET. ( I did note seeing to this topic of discussion a link you gave to "Credible Anomalies Napster" with mention #40 the Hobbit.) Let's clear this up if that was your intention.

Its posted in the credible anomalies. When something is an anomaly, it does not mean its alien. There are all kinds of anomalous, unexplained phenomena in nature.

The following comment of yours is absolutely stripped of evidence! The only time I've noticed people make comments such as yours is when Science has won the debate.

He said there are other types of evidence than scientific evidence. Do you disagree with this? You think all evidence is scientific?

 

[CEL]

Thats certainly not a scientific statement. Dinosaurs existed, even before any human or science saw it.

True, but there are fossils, that have been examined by scientists.
There is no need that an alien be examined by scientists. If some alien artifact can be smugled by an abductee, or if residuals of an alien craft are available, those evidences can be examined by scientists and constitute scientific evidence.

 

[DaveC426913]

Until a scientist has examined an alien then obviously there aren't any.

Thats certainly not a scientific statement. Dinosaurs existed, even before any human or science saw it.

You're misinterpreting.


"Until a scientist has examined an alien then obviously there aren't any accepted in our body of knowledge."

Better?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'll stick with science as noted in previous post! I love science!

Ivan, you said, "No evidence for visiting ETs? False." Ivan, I think people that claim to see aliens have an imagination beyond reality. Until a scientist has examined an alien then obviously there aren't any.

What you think has no bearing on the facts. Your belief amounts to nothing more than a religious statement. Scientific evidence is just one form of evidence. There are others, including anecdotal evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law. To argue otherwise is blatent crackpottery. To continually deny a basic definition will merit a misinformation penalty.

 

[BadFish]

Has anyone seen the show on history channel today, "I know what I saw."?

Its regarding UFO's. I was orginally agianst the theory of UFO's, until I saw this show. At one point during the show, a pilot apparently saw a UFO on radar, made a report on it, and the government said it never happened.

Now I don't have a lot of scientific knowledge , but I know there are a lot of very smart people on these boards. Is it good to keep our minds open to what is and isn't possible? Most people would have probably thought flying was impossible before the 1900's. But it was from one person (The Wright brothers) who thought it was possible that made it possible.

My point is, is it a good thing to keep our minds open to what is and isn't possible?