Japan Earthquake: Nuclear Plants at Fukushima Daiichi

[clancy688]

[PLAIN]http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/povray/blueprint/foto/edited/out/avg-090-099-c-A-i.png

(C) Osama bin Laden, no doubt about it.

Did you already collect your 25million $ reward for reporting Osama bin Ladens location to the US...?

 

[NUCENG]

An underwater video of the #4 SFP (110428_1.zip) was recently posted on this thread.
I extracted the frames with

ffmpeg -i video.mpg -vcodec png frames-b/%08d.png

(The "-vcodec png" option and png output format apparently gives better images than the default extraction to JPEG format; the latter has a good amount of the 8x8 JPEG block noise).

Then I randomly picked 10 successive frames (90-99), aligned them manually, averaged them, and applied some brightness/contrast correction to each channel. Here is the result:
[PLAIN]http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/povray/blueprint/foto/edited/src/avg-090-099-c.png
I am sure one can get much sharper images out of that video, with better processing tools. (Again, I don't see why one should take a low-res video from a static target, rather than a few high-res photos. Sigh.) There is much image deformation by thermal gradients in the water; the water must be boling inside some racks.

Some notes:
[PLAIN]http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/povray/blueprint/foto/edited/out/avg-090-099-c-A-i.png

(A) These bumps on the rack edges are normal features of the racks, correct? Why do the ones in row n-2 look different from those in row 2?

(B) This streak is the result of averaging the motion of a floating object (paint flake?)

(C) Osama bin Laden, no doubt about it.

EDIT: It turns out that frames 90-99 are particularly bad. Frames 40-63 are much better. I should try again with those.

From the latest from the WH, it may not be Osama after all. ;-}

 

[razzz]

From the latest from the WH, it may not be Osama after all. ;-}

'B' is a jellyfish...

 

[jlduh]

8 workers to enter building of reactor N°1 Thursday...
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/02_11.html

Tepco doesn't precise if these will be Tepco employees or "Jumpers" paid 5000 dollars a day.

 

[~kujala~]

Regarding the number 6 reactor:

The transfer of accumulated water in Unit 6 turbine building to a
temporary tank was conducted from 2:00 pm to 5:00 pm on May 1 and the
transfer was started from 10:00 am, May 2.

https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11050202-e.html

Unit 6:
At this moment, we do not consider any reactor coolant leakage inside the
reactor happened.

TEPCO doesn't say here that the water is highly radioactive. Perhaps the reporter made a mistake in the NHK News and confused with the number 2 and 6 reactor wastewater radioactivity levels?
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/01_15.html

My guess is that the water in the number 6 turbine building is groundwater infiltrating into the basement and it is low-level contaminated. They have had problems with groundwater earlier in the 5 and 6 units:

NISA said underground streams are a possible source. Before the crisis, streams beneath reactors No. 5 and 6 were pumped to divert water, a process that hasn't been conducted since the quake.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703922504576273930625967622.html

The contamination may have come mainly from airborne radiation which has taken some time to be seen in groundwater. The only thing that remains a bit of mystery is the rising of radioactivity levels on the 20th of April.

 

[rowmag]

From the latest from the WH, it may not be Osama after all. ;-}

Loch Ness Monster?
Yeti?
Crashed UFO?

It would help if we had some really grainy, fuzzy black-and-white images of the SFP to compare with historical records on the above potential candidates.

 

[elektrownik]

Reactor 3 temperature jump:
-nisa 122: RPV 138C
-nisa 123: RPV 188C

 

[MiceAndMen]

I promised myself I would refrain from ranting any more about TEPCO in this thread, but their strategy eludes me. I don't understand what they hope to accomplish on the ground floor of the reactor buildings besides finding more leaks. The problem is 30 meters up, and I would think affixing radiation monitors and cameras up on the blown out superstructure is where they should be concentrating their attention. It's almost as if they are afraid to do anything up top except for pumping water from a distance. Their plans are rooted in fantasy and designed for public relations more than addressing the problems IMO.

 

[imandylite]

I promised myself I would refrain from ranting any more about TEPCO in this thread, but their strategy eludes me. I don't understand what they hope to accomplish on the ground floor of the reactor buildings besides finding more leaks. The problem is 30 meters up, and I would think affixing radiation monitors and cameras up on the blown out superstructure is where they should be concentrating their attention. It's almost as if they are afraid to do anything up top except for pumping water from a distance. Their plans are rooted in fantasy and designed for public relations more than addressing the problems IMO.

The mindset is one of 'must get these reactors under control'.

It seems to be an inability to accept the failures that have occurred and the logical conclusion that the plant needs to be buried in sand and concrete.

This is what happens when you keep telling yourself and those around you one thing and accordingly put all your eggs in one basket - failure just is too terrible to accept.

 

[MiceAndMen]

The mindset is one of 'must get these reactors under control'.

It seems to be an inability to accept the failures that have occurred and the logical conclusion that the plant needs to be buried in sand and concrete.

This is what happens when you keep telling yourself and those around you one thing and accordingly put all your eggs in one basket - failure just is too terrible to accept.

I guess, but burying them is premature until they know exactly what they're dealing with, and they don't seem to be in any rush to find out.

Unit 1: Assign a robot to the collapsed roof to move about and take radiation measurements. If the robot fails due to radiation, put another one up there. How are they getting water into the #1 SFP right now? Is the closed-loop cooling circulation system working?

Unit 2: There is a gaping hole in the western face of the building. The roof is intact. Get a crane and deploy a robot in there ASAP.

Units 3 & 4: Get someone or something to emplace radiation monitors on the exposed steel beams of the upper superstructure. When it's safe enough to work, get some guys up there with torches to start cutting the debris away. Find 200 ironworkers and let each of them cut one beam. If it takes an hour to cut a beam and the safe exposure is 30 minutes, then find 400 workers. Find 2,000 for crying out loud, and get them up there.

 

[elektrownik]

OMFG: BREAKING NEWS: Radiation leaks from fuel rods suspected at Tsuruga plant: local gov't:

 

[Samy24]

Reactor 3 temperature jump:
-nisa 122: RPV 138C
-nisa 123: RPV 188C

SFP unit 1 FPC skimmer level
-nisa 115: 4550
-nisa 123: 1650

Does this mean the pool is running dry in unit 1? Who knows? Maybe all the data in these reports do not say anything?

 

[Borek]

OMFG: BREAKING NEWS: Radiation leaks from fuel rods suspected at Tsuruga plant: local gov't:

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL3E7G214720110502

Internal leak - from rods to coolant, from what I understand there is no leak to the outside of the plant.

 

[MiceAndMen]

A very good report from the Associated Press...

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20110502/API/1105020602

After reading it, I feel much more confident that TEPCO and the Japanese nuclear industry are capable of dealing with the situation at the Fukushima Daiichi NPP.

[Note: sarcasm is not always readily apparent on the internet. This article has all the earmarks of a "wrap-up" story, which means the daily media coverage of the situation has come to an end barring some dramatic development that will boost ratings.

 

[jpquantin]

SFP unit 1 FPC skimmer level
-nisa 115: 4550
-nisa 123: 1650

Does this mean the pool is running dry in unit 1? Who knows? Maybe all the data in these reports do not say anything?

There is a contradiction between these datas and no report about spraying in SPF1.

From the various report, the SPF level is reported to go from 4550 (Apr 26 5:00) down to 1900 (May 01 11:00).

AFAIK surface of SPF1 is around 86 meters^2 (same height as SPF2 to 5, but less volume => data taken from http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/4008511524/more-on-spent-fuel-pools-at-fukushima" ).

This is 2.65 meters of water having left the pool, this is about 229 tons, in exactly 126 hours. Which gives an average of 1.8 tons per hour.

Again somewhere in http://allthingsnuclear.org/tagged/Japan+nuclear/page/2" , boiling in SPF1 would come from a 60 Mcal/hour power, which gives a rate of 0.11 tons per hour.

Conclusion: the drop cannot be explained by boiling. Moreover, this SPF was "quiet" before Apr 26 (no change in level, no report of water spread in SFP - does not mean there had been none).

There may be accelerated leak (from Apr 26 - BIG leak), or additional heat. Edit: no report of white smoke above unit 1.

Worth noticing is the rate the concrete pump can put water in. In SPF4, they have sprayed 960 tons in 1717 minutes since Apr 19, which gives a rate of about half a ton per minute, or about 30 tons per hour.

Putting everything together, we have:
- of course they are aware of SPF1 level drop
- they are injecting water as fast as they can (?) Since no report on spraying at SFP1 ... They may be able to do at 30 tons per hour, and however pool level drops.
- SPF1 pool level may soon come to top of fuel rods. If all maths and data are correct, we can predict it will be the case at 5AM on May 5th. Edit : except if "BIG leak hole" is above top of fuel rods.
- however no PR about this, nothing in reports ?

EDIT: PFC skimmer level may not give level in SFP itself (to be continued)

 

[Jorge Stolfi]

Did you already collect your 25million $ reward for reporting Osama bin Ladens location to the US...?

I am checking whether the reward terms specify "before the US finds him". Meanwhile, consider this:
(1) News reports say that the body was dumped into seawater somewhere. Nowhere it said it was not borated seawater.
(2) I read on twitter that his hideout had walls 4m thick. Check the SFP walls on the blueprints.

 

[Dmytry]

Reactor 3 temperature jump:
-nisa 122: RPV 138C
-nisa 123: RPV 188C

Hmm. Is there any official denial out yet?

jpquantin: skimmer would not get re-filled if the pool is below the skim level, right? The skimmer is an overflow tank of some sort.

 

[jpquantin]

Hmm. Is there any official denial out yet?

jpquantin: skimmer would not get re-filled if the pool is below the skim level, right? The skimmer is an overflow tank of some sort.

Well agree with you (found skimmer illustrated in http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110418e5.pdf" from Tepco). Do you mean skimmer level does not give SFP level ?

 

[Samy24]

Hmm. Is there any official denial out yet?

jpquantin: skimmer would not get re-filled if the pool is below the skim level, right? The skimmer is an overflow tank of some sort.

Where is the water in the skimmer surge tank going? Why are they releasing this water? Does not matter, but just curious.

 

[TCups]

Alternatively, it may be better for someone to initiate a new thread concerning "unresolved questions about the Fukushima event", and that thread can be stickied in the forum. We could divide the thread into groups of 30 or so pages (1-30, 31-60, . . ) or groups of 25, and ask folks to browse the pages for unresolved questions. We could then link back to the thread/posts. Alternatively, it may be better for those asking questions to determine if their particularly question remains unresolved.

Sorry to be running so far behind -- PF seems to be having server problems that coincide with my reading time.

What would be most helpful is a sticky that has, without additional interpretation, and indexed as appropriate (including location, date and time), links and graphics (with original source and copyright data) of:

1) technical drawings and diagrams of the physical plan at Fukushima

2) photos and videos of Fukushima

3) relevant tables, graphs & charts (ie, of radiation measurements, RPV and SFP parameters, etc.)

4) links to related articles

Going forward, perhaps posters could include such appropriate links and attachments, not only in their posts, but also appended to the appropriate sticky.

This thread is an amazing source. It deserves to be indexed and footnoted and perhaps, technically edited to better organize and categorize the content. I predict it will be a long-lasting source for technical and historical research.

 

[Dmytry]

Well agree with you (found skimmer illustrated in http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110418e5.pdf" from Tepco). Do you mean skimmer level does not give SFP level ?

Where is the water in the skimmer surge tank going? Why are they releasing this water? Does not matter, but just curious.

Dunno. Maybe they pumped water out of skimmer surge tank for some reason, so that if they pour too much water it overflows into skimmer surge tank. Or maybe it got damaged by quake+explosion+aftershocks.

 

[Rive]

The fission energy per Bq of I-131 is then 1.1E-3 J
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(((8.0252+days)/ln(2))/second)*(6.9E9+eV)

100KW of fission, for 1 day, makes 7.8E12 Bq of I-131.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(100kw*1+day)/((((8.0252+days)/ln(2))/second)*(6.9E9+eV))

edit: note, noscript strips parens out of the url. The final formula is:
(100kw*1 day)/((((8.0252 days)/ln(2))/second)*(6.9E9 eV))

you guys do the concentrations and volumes, it's late night here. I didn't check my sources, so beware.

Thanks - it'll be useful

 

[elektrownik]

Leaks of radioactive materials from fuel rods have been suspected at a nuclear power plant in Tsuruga, the Fukui prefectural government said Monday, citing a rise in density of the toxic substances in coolant water. [...]

According to Japan Atomic, 4.2 becquerels of iodine-133 and 3,900 becquerels of xenon gas were detected per cubic centimeter Monday, up from 2.1 and 5.2 becquerels, respectively, during previous measurements conducted last Tuesday.

Radiation leaks from fuel rods suspected” at Japan’s Tsuruga nuclear plant — Radioactive Xenon up 75,000%

Any ide what this could mean ?

 

[~kujala~]

I just made an insight, I don't know if there is any truthness in it, probably not.

TEPCO says SFP 4 is contaminated because they have sprayed contaminated seawater there.

We also know that SFP 2 is propably high-level contaminated.

So perhaps what TEPCO is saying about SFP 4 is true. Wouldn't this same apply to SFP 2?

The theory is that seawater sprayed to SFP 4 has been taken in front of unit 4 whereas seawater used to cool SFP 2 has been taken in front of unit 2.

And because the highest level of radiation in seawater is in front of unit 2 we would also see the highest level of radiation in SFP 2.

This would be called recycling... The high-level leakages from the reactor number 2 to the sea would be seen all around the Fukushima plant.

 

[|Fred]

On the high resolution pictures that were taken a while back we can see the truck and fire hose taking watter from what will be known after as contaminated trench. So what they are suggesting is not so far fetched and could actually by a true full explanation.

 

[Astronuc]

Any ide what this could mean ?

I don't know the details, but whenever there is a failure of a fuel rod(s) in a reactor, there is a spike in the Xe and Kr in the coolant (usually classified as a Xe spike). Normally the longer lived Xe-133 increases then settles down. One can measure the Xe-138/Xe-133 and/or Xe-135/Xe-133 to determine if the leak is tight (low ratio) or open (high ratio).

If it is one or a few failures, this is not unusual, although it is undesirable.

The cause of cladding breach could be debris (e.g., small pieces of wire) fretting, grid-to-rod fretting, or perhaps a faulty weld. More details would be necessary to understand the significance.

 

[TCups]

Nice side by side video on youtube of #1 and #3 explosion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q3ljfLvHww"

Very impressive to see the difference in shape and power.

If you look at the frame by frame version of #3 explosion,
you can clearly see the fireball, followed by the implosion and catapult shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHQ3IJHJbw"

It seems to me, that the implosion/explosion also has impact on structure of building #4.
Could be the reason for the curved damage seen on the left side of the building #4, after it blow up.

I, for one, have never been able to "clearly see" the implosion of Bldg 3. If an explanation of the mechanism for an implosion following the initial fireball was given, I guess I missed it. By "implosion", is it meant that some type of negative pressure developed with sufficient force to suck the building inward? What exactly is implied by "implosion" and what inference as to the nature of the explosion can be drawn if in fact implosion occurred?

 

[PietKuip]

What would be most helpful is a sticky that has, without additional interpretation, and indexed as appropriate (including location, date and time), links and graphics (with original source and copyright data) of ...

One could do that: a thread where each of the regulars has their own few postings that they try to hold up to date.

Another possibility is a wiki. There is http://fukushimafaq.wikispaces.com/ and http://fukushima.wikispaces.com/

 

[Rive]

At the Original Foto, the Truck in Unit4 is not to see, the Door is closed.

Two frame from the previously linked 'Tour' video (04.22.) are attached: one is about the door of U3, one is about the door of U4.

It's interesting, that while U3 is more damaged than U4, the tunnel of U3 looks more intact.

U4: Is it possible that the door was opened and the truck was pushed out by the explosion?

PS.: U4.: actually, I could not find the door on the pictures, even on the aerial photos...

 

[MadderDoc]

Two frame from the previously linked 'Tour' video <..>

Those a very fine looking frames. I've been looking for a good version of this particular 'Tour' video unsuccessfully for a while, and would be grateful for a repost of the link.

 

[Rive]

Originally it was posted https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3274193&postcount=5352".

Link:

A different version (more cuts, less real footage, but less subtitles):

Used software: DownloadHelper extension for Firefox, Mp4Cam2AVI, AVIDemux.

 

[RealWing]

Interesting comment in the TEPCO status reports on Daiini - that 'Residual heat removal system (A) was disabled due to the earthquake." Only RHR (B) systems are operating. This comment was made for all 4 reactors.

I would have assumed that both A and B trains of the RHR system would have been qualified to the Design Basis Earthquake, so it appears that it may not have been adequately designed for a DBE?? That would not bode well for the other TEPCO plants - that are running today.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110502e9.pdf

 

[Dmytry]

Interesting comment in the TEPCO status reports on Daiini - that 'Residual heat removal system (A) was disabled due to the earthquake." Only RHR (B) systems are operating. This comment was made for all 4 reactors.

I would have assumed that both A and B trains of the RHR system would have been qualified to the Design Basis Earthquake, so it appears that it may not have been adequately designed for a DBE?? That would not bode well for the other TEPCO plants - that are running today.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110502e9.pdf

Ya. Everyone's been making up as a fact everywhere that the reactor withstood the quake, whereas the fact was that they made it up out of thin air.

 

[DSamsom]

Would be too coincidental for the hourly webcam to register an explosion of some kind. And the no-wind (see ocean) situation is probably a better explanation for this odd shaped plume. Still, what is happening on the most recent webcampicture ?

http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html

 

[Caniche]

Would be too coincidental for the hourly webcam to register an explosion of some kind. And the no-wind (see ocean) situation is probably a better explanation for this odd shaped plume. Still, what is happening on the most recent webcampicture ?

http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html

You see all those nice green reassuring pine trees in the foreground? I'll bet you a dime to a dollar that they'll be crispy brown in twelve months. Pine trees is like that