Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate

V(q)\frac{q'}{t'}+t'\frac{m}{2}\left(\frac{q''t'-q'^2}{t'^2}\right)+t'\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{q'}{t'}+\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{q'}{t'}+\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{q'}{t'}+t'\frac{m}{2}\left(\frac{t''}{t'}\right)$In summary, the conversation involves finding the equation $L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\theta)$ and
  • #1
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Homework Statement



I don't know why I'm having trouble here, but I want to show that, if we let [itex] t = t(\theta) [/itex] and [itex] q(t(\theta)) = q(\theta) [/itex] so that both are now dependent coordinates on the parameter [itex] \theta [/itex], then

[tex] L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\theta) = t'L(q,q'/t',t) [/tex]

where [itex] t' = \frac{dt}{d\theta}, q' = \frac{dq}{d\theta} [/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution



Writing [itex] L = \frac{m}{2} \dot{q}^2 - V(q) [/itex], we let [itex] \frac{d}{dt} \to \frac{d\theta}{dt}\frac{d}{d\theta} [/itex] and then,

[tex] L = \frac{m}{2} \frac{q'^2}{t'^2} - V(q) [/tex]

Which clearly doesn't agree with what I need to show... where am I going wrong here?
 
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  • #2
A:We have $L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\theta)=\frac{\partial L}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial q'}\frac{\partial q'}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial t'}\frac{\partial t'}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta}$ By the chain rule, $\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=\frac{\partial q}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}=\frac{q'}{t'}$ and $\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}=t'$ Also, $\frac{\partial q'}{\partial \theta}=\frac{\partial q'}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial q'}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=\frac{q''}{t'}+\frac{q'}{t'}\frac{q'}{t'}=\frac{q''t'-q'^2}{t'^2}$And, $\frac{\partial t'}{\partial \theta}=\frac{\partial t'}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial \theta}+\frac{\partial t'}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=\frac{t''}{t'}+\frac{0}{t'}\frac{q'}{t'}=\frac{t''}{t'}$Finally, we compute the last partial derivative.$\frac{\partial L}{\partial \theta}=-\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{\partial q}{\partial \theta}=-\frac{\partial V}{\partial q}\frac{q'}{t'}$So, $L_{\theta}(q,q',t,t',\
 

FAQ: Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate

What is Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate?

Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate refers to a specific mathematical framework used in classical mechanics to describe the motion of a system. In this framework, time is treated as one of the coordinates of the system, and its value is not fixed but rather depends on the other coordinates of the system.

How is Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate different from traditional Lagrangian?

Traditional Lagrangian treats time as an independent variable, whereas in Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate, time is one of the coordinates of the system and its value is determined by the other coordinates. This allows for a more general and flexible description of the system's motion.

What are the advantages of using Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate?

The use of Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate allows for a more elegant and concise formulation of the equations of motion. It also allows for the inclusion of non-conservative forces and the consideration of systems with varying masses or constraints.

Are there any limitations to using Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate?

One limitation of using Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate is that it is not well-suited for systems with time-varying constraints. Also, the equations of motion can become more complex and difficult to solve compared to traditional Lagrangian.

How is Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate applied in real-world scenarios?

Lagrangian where time is a dependent coordinate is commonly used in the study of rigid body dynamics, celestial mechanics, and other classical mechanics problems. It has also been extended to quantum mechanics and other fields of physics, making it a versatile and powerful tool for understanding and analyzing physical systems.

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