Layman asks about Quantum "interaction"

[PeterDonis]

the double slit example i gave was on target

I have no way of evaluating this unless you give a specific reference. If the configuration you are describing is exactly the same as one of the two cases described in the OP of this thread, then giving such a reference in this thread would be fine, and indeed would help with the discussion; but if it is exactly the same, I'm confused as to why you would be asking us to "include" it in the discussion, since it's already included. Your asking "please include" is why I assumed that you were talking about some other experiment, not the same as what was described in the OP.

 

[Lord Jestocost]

Can wave collapse occur simply by gaining "information" about the particle without physical interaction?

Here a quote from: “Quantum measurements and new concepts for experiments with trapped ions” by Christof Wunderlich and Christoph Balzer, Advances In Atomic, Molecular, and Optical Physics, Volume 49, 2003, Pages 293-372 (https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0305129)

"So far, in the discussion of measurements on quantum systems we have not explicitly considered the case of negative result measurements (for a recent review see (Whitaker 2000).) We will restrict the following discussion to quantum mechanical two-state systems for clarity. In some experimental situations (real or gedanken) the apparatus coupled to the quantum probe and quantum system, may respond (for example by a “click” or the deflection of a pointer) indicating one state of the measured system, or not respond at all indicating the other. Such measurements where the experimental result is the absence of a physical event rather than the occurrence of an event have been described, for instance, in (Renninger 1960, Dicke 1981). A negative-result measurement or observation leads to a collapse of the wave function without local physical interaction involved between measurement apparatus and observed quantum system. This will be discussed in more detail in the following paragraphs. In particular, the meaning of the concept “local physical interaction” is looked at in this context."

See also: “Renninger negative-result experiment”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renninger_negative-result_experiment

 

[EPR]

If that's how I came off I certainly didn't mean to be.

Then why did you ask if a physical intraction was necessary for wave function collapse?

The whole setup through which you phrase your questions in this thread is misguided as there are no particles as such. Even if this situation is more confusing, at least it's not misguiding and you'd be somewhere from where real progress can be made. Not in a deadend.

 

[member 656954]

Wow, this is like watching one of those tennis slugfests where the ball is kept in play for far longer than you expect the players have stamina for!

@PeterDonis, you deserve kudos for patience and grit

@Peter Mole, I feel that you're in one of those traveler situations where you don't speak the language but feel that if you talk English slowly enough and loud enough surely they'll eventually understand you. They won't

The point has been made that to understand things in the country of QM, you need to learn the language...and that's math. Anything else is vague, open to (mis)interpretation, and likely to lead to the wrong conclusions.

I share your desire to desire to comprehend QM at more than the pop sci level, and have been following this thread with interest, but having read many PF discussions in the QM forums, it's obvious that without the math I'll only ever get a glance at the landscape and one that is often more confusing than enlightening.

So my question is, aside from the reference book Peter noted early on in this thread (which I can't now find to note the name of), are there other suggested places to start for those with no prior knowledge?

 

[StevieTNZ]

So my question is, aside from the reference book Peter noted early on in this thread (which I can't now find to note the name of), are there other suggested places to start for those with no prior knowledge?

You may like Jonathan Allday's book - https://www.bookdepository.com/Quantum-Reality-Jonathan-Allday/9781584887034 (that contains a lot of basic maths)

This book - https://www.bookdepository.com/Sneaking-a-Look-at-God-s-Cards/9780691130378

And https://www.bookdepository.com/Quantum-Mechanics-Theoretical-Minimum-Leonard-Susskind/9780141977812

 

[PeterDonis]

the reference book Peter noted early on in this thread (which I can't now find to note the name of)

Did you mean this?

If you really want to learn how all this works, you need to learn it from a QM textbook. I would recommend Ballentine myself

 

[member 656954]

Thanks, @PeterDonis, I did mean Ballentine