LOTR trilogy is terribly overrated

[Poop-Loops]

The ratio is much higher in the books. Not that there's anything wrong with it! Actually, it is a particularly unique English male bond-in-wartime theme. That's how it was described to me, anyway.

I didn't see it as being homosexual. It was guys that were out miles away from home, for long periods of time, who ended up depending on each other to survive. Maybe they were in love, but it seemed like more of a platonic love than romantic.

Funny thing, the Spartans were similar in that regard. But they also had homosexual partners in their group or unit or whatever, since face it, normal people need the lovin'.

 

[Evo]

I'm not a big fan of reading fiction. I prefer my textbooks. I did try The Hobbit and got to chapter 2 then gave up as it bored me. I don't know what it is but I've never been a fan of story books. I must have no imagination.

That's sad Kurdt. Science fiction and fantasy books are my happiest memories.

 

[Poop-Loops]

I'm not a big fan of reading fiction. I prefer my textbooks. I did try The Hobbit and got to chapter 2 then gave up as it bored me. I don't know what it is but I've never been a fan of story books. I must have no imagination.

Don't worry, I'm like that, too. Never really cared about fiction. Would read non-fiction biology books and astronomy books in grade school (scaled down to my level, of course), since it was just so much more interesting. I don't think I've read more than maybe 10 or so fiction books throughout my life. Probably 9 of those are Star Wars books. 5 or 6 I was forced to read in school.

 

[Moonbear]

I didn't see it as being homosexual. It was guys that were out miles away from home, for long periods of time, who ended up depending on each other to survive. Maybe they were in love, but it seemed like more of a platonic love than romantic.

Funny thing, the Spartans were similar in that regard. But they also had homosexual partners in their group or unit or whatever, since face it, normal people need the lovin'.

I'm not even sure what you guys are referring to. I hadn't noticed anything like that at all. You all really MUST have been bored to be analyzing the story at that level.

 

[Poop-Loops]

I don't know, to me it was obvious. Sam and Frodo went through so much. I think I remember "I love you"'s being exchanged between them.

Then there was Merry and Pippin. They grew very close. Gimli and Legolas grew close, too, but I don't think it was nearly as close with them as with the Hobbits.

It was also weird how there was a total lack of women in the books. I'm glad Jackson decided to add in Arwen into some parts.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't know, to me it was obvious. Sam and Frodo went through so much. I think I remember "I love you"'s being exchanged between them.

Then there was Merry and Pippin. They grew very close. Gimli and Legolas grew close, too, but I don't think it was nearly as close with them as with the Hobbits.

It was also weird how there was a total lack of women in the books. I'm glad Jackson decided to add in Arwen into some parts.

Weren't Merry and Pippin brothers? And Sam and Frodo also related? There was a lot of brotherly love, and male bonding, but I didn't notice anything more than that.

 

[arildno]

Weren't Merry and Pippin brothers? And Sam and Frodo also related? There was a lot of brotherly love, and male bonding, but I didn't notice anything more than that.

BLASPHEMER!

Meriadoc and Peregrin were cousins, and Sam was Frodo's servant.

 

[Moonbear]

BLASPHEMER!

Meriadoc and Peregrin were cousins, and Sam was Frodo's servant.

Oh, right, it was Frodo and Bilbo who were related. I TOLD you I get all their names mixed up.

 

[Chi Meson]

I didn't see it as being homosexual. It was guys that were out miles away from home, for long periods of time, who ended up depending on each other to survive. Maybe they were in love, but it seemed like more of a platonic love than romantic.

That's what I meant about "bond-in-wartime." Tolkein lost a few very close friends in WWI. Without this reference, many of the "men with men" scenes in the book can appear "gay." Soldiers in war know what this is about. Evidently, there was a particularly English "public school" / army officer that was even more so. So, no I'm not really saying it has homosexual undertones. It just can seem that way.

 

[gravenewworld]

He made a mistake. You should have seen the Extended Editions instead, with 2 hours more material.

Oh they were the special editions jam packed with all sorts of extras (the DVDs that looked sort of like books). We watched 1&2 on Sat. and 3 on Sun.

 

[Chi Meson]

Oh they were the special editions jam packed with all sorts of extras (the DVDs that looked sort of like books). We watched 1&2 on Sat. and 3 on Sun.

You must have been crawling out of your skin when everyone was crying by the boats as Bilbo and Frodo slooooooooowly walked away.

 

[binzing]

I plan on building a hobbit hole sometime in my lifetime. Can you imagine how efficient it would be?

 

[lisab]

I plan on building a hobbit hole sometime in my lifetime. Can you imagine how efficient it would be?

binzing, you and I are of one mind on this! YES, hobbit holes are so cool!

But my dream home would be more than the hobbit hole. The hobbit hole would be the deepest part of the house, and the rooms would transition from underground to a room that's completely outdoors...and...and...

Oh, I digress yet again.

 

[binzing]

I've already planned this and looked at logistics (been like this since I was about 10). I plan on using 11 foot concrete pipe, which would allow for standard 8 foot ceilings, while giving a large amount of space under the floor for pipes, electricity, etc. The hole would also probably have a few regular square or rectangular rooms, although they would be underground, even below the hobbit hole.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

If you're alone in an unfamiliar house (I was) and try to read it overnight, you might not get much sleep. That is a really horrifying novel.

Try reading Legion the second book by candle light that is pretty scary. Call me legion for we are many. Hurrr, *shudders*

I have to admit the Elven songs and poetry in the books were too painful for me to read (bored my socks off) and I had to skip over them.

Count yourself lucky Tolkien wanted to write the whole book in Sindarin (elven) But a friend persuaded him not too, there are actually 3 fully formed languages along side the book. And about seven books full of extraneous information including maps, flora, fauna and so on. To be frank it is remarkable that the film captured anything like the world Tolkein created, and is testament to the makers already being big fans.

I am a massive Tolkien geek so I am biased but I thought the films were remarkable. Wish they would have done the scourging of the Shire at the end. And I don't see why they omitted mention of Tom Bombadil particularly in the extended versions, but ho hum, only so much you can squeeze into 3 hours I suppose.

 

[Chi Meson]

Wish they would have done the scourging of the Shire at the end. And I don't see why they omitted mention of Tom Bombadil particularly in the extended versions, but ho hum, only so much you can squeeze into 3 hours I suppose.

I agree about the "scouring" bit. I think that the removal of Saruman as the final act, and the fact that the war finally ends in the shire, and that the strengths of the other three hobbits finally comes to the front, made this one of the most important chapters in the book(s).

But I could have done without Tom Bombadil in the books completely. I know others liked the character, but if I had been the editor, he would have been blue-lined.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I agree about the "scouring" bit. I think that the removal of Saruman as the final act, and the fact that the war finally ends in the shire, and that the strengths of the other three hobbits finally comes to the front, made this one of the most important chapters in the book(s).

But I could have done without Tom Bombadil in the books completely. I know others liked the character, but if I had been the editor, he would have been blue-lined.

Yeah Saruman and Sharkeys gang overtaking the Shire, is a really important part of the book, and Saruman's final demise. I think they could have had a quick mention of Tom, maybe a 15 minute scene with the Barrow Wight and the rescue from the Hourn: Old Man Willow. Would of made an interesting interlude. Anyway, I would of liked to have seen quite a few scenes added, but those are two I personally think could have been included. I mean after all Tom Bombadil is in his own realm more powerful than Sauron and one of the most powerful Maia remaining on Middle Earth, so a bit of a mention wouldn't of gone amiss. Also the amendment from Glorfindel to Arwyn being the elf that takes Frodo to the Ford of Rivendell, was unnecessary, as the love interest was more than accommodated elsewhere. Anyway, still a fine effort.

 

[arildno]

I agree about the "scouring" bit. I think that the removal of Saruman as the final act, and the fact that the war finally ends in the shire, and that the strengths of the other three hobbits finally comes to the front, made this one of the most important chapters in the book(s).

But I could have done without Tom Bombadil in the books completely. I know others liked the character, but if I had been the editor, he would have been blue-lined.

Agreed.

Tom Bombadil clearly belongs in the same hap-hazard, unthought-through and whimsical pre-Middle Earth Tolkien wrote about in "The Hobbit". His early ideas about elves and the sundering of the world (Numenor as the sunken Atlantis) were originally disparate from his hobbit tale, and it was only during writing the Hobbit and beyond that his ideas began to coalesce.

Whereas figures like Elrond and Gandalf make a smooth transition into his integrated Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil jars with it in numerous ways.
(He seems to be a whimsical remnant of the unrelated chance encounters that dominate "The Hobbit").

That "The Hobbit", and how he told it, had a strong grip on him that he struggled to come free from is for example evidenced in that in his first drafts of the Cirith Ungol adventure he peopled that pass with the same type of spider population as in Mirkwood. The figure of Shelob grew slowly in his mind.


So, yes, I agree with you that I do not miss Tom Bombadil, but I do miss the barrow-wight..

 

[Quincy]

Roommate made me watch all 3 this past weekend. :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:


The first movie was extremely boring. The next two were just awful as well. I wanted to throw the remote at the TV after the 103948302948023984234 overhead flying shot.

LOTR trilogy has got to be some of the most overrated set of films ever. CGI sucks.

I can't imagine anyone finding the movies boring... What about the battle scenes? you couldn't have thought they were boring, especially in the Two Towers.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Agreed.

Tom Bombadil clearly belongs in the same hap-hazard, unthought-through and whimsical pre-Middle Earth Tolkien wrote about in "The Hobbit". His early ideas about elves and the sundering of the world (Numenor as the sunken Atlantis) were originally disparate from his hobbit tale, and it was only during writing the Hobbit and beyond that his ideas began to coalesce.

Whereas figures like Elrond and Gandalf make a smooth transition into his integrated Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil jars with it in numerous ways.
(He seems to be a whimsical remnant of the unrelated chance encounters that dominate "The Hobbit").

That "The Hobbit", and how he told it, had a strong grip on him that he struggled to come free from is for example evidenced in that in his first drafts of the Cirith Ungol adventure he peopled that pass with the same type of spider population as in Mirkwood. The figure of Shelob grew slowly in his mind.So, yes, I agree with you that I do not miss Tom Bombadil, but I do miss the barrow-wight..

That's what I mean I can happily do without the fol derol dols, and olde worldy soppyness that is Goldberry and Tom's woodland fairy realm, I mean the guy plays like some sort of Junky who's had too much of the wrong sort of mushroom, if you know what I mean. But the part where they get lost in the forest and then fall asleep under the Hourn and almost get killed and are rescued by Tom, and the harrowing night they spend on The Barrow Downs, were parts of the books that helped ramp up the tension after they had escaped the Buckleberry ferry crossing. In the book they really helped to add a dimension, that nowhere was safe in ME now that Sauron was once again master of Mordor. Evil spirits and fell and twisted plans were once again rising and being set against ME.

 

[binzing]

Tom Bombadil is one of the strangest characters in his books.

 

[Poop-Loops]

He sings his enemies to death. That's the kind of power [insert crappy singer] only dreams of.

 

[binzing]

They are original flower children to every extent of the meaning.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

They are original flower children to every extent of the meaning.

Well it's actually more comparable to the Celtic mythology, the faerie folk who would lead people to Tir na Nog and there they would dance and sing and be shown the grace of that land. Obviously he never envisioned the 60's when he wrote the book, but the book has the mythos of the Earth magic and the power of the fairy folk over the land. Of course people might think the mythos was benign, but the Huorns and the Ents, show the problem with standing against the power of nature when they destroy Isengard in The Two Towers. Considerate to those that work within the cycles of nature but vengeful and destructive of those that don't.

 

[binzing]

His stuff may be boring in parts or in total, depending upon your personal preferences, but he definitely took great care in detail and have backgrounds for hiw writing. IMO, one of the best writers of the 20th century.

 

[arildno]

His stuff may be boring in parts or in total, depending upon your personal preferences, but he definitely took great care in detail and have backgrounds for hiw writing. IMO, one of the best writers of the 20th century.

At least, one of the most original ones, following his own peculiar vision to its end (and beyond).

And he most certainly is one of the best fantasy writers of all time.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

At least, one of the most original ones, following his own peculiar vision to its end (and beyond).

And he most certainly is one of the best fantasy writers of all time.

Indeed his vision was to bring mythology back to the English, a mythology he'd thought we'd lost. If nothing else he created the genre on which Harry Potter owes its existence, and all the fantasy books of the early 20th century paled in significance to, although in fantasy were important. That said there were many books, but in his time fantasy was a dying art, now it's the most popular style of fiction in modern history. If you don't like it, well tough, there's always other mediums.

 

[Chi Meson]

He sings his enemies to death. That's the kind of power [insert crappy singer] only dreams of.

Phil Collins

 

[Kurdt]

Phil Collins

I think Phil Collins has actually killed people by singing to them.

 

[binzing]

He's not that bad. But I think Genesis would have stayed around longer if Peter had stayed.

 

[turbo]

He's not that bad. But I think Genesis would have stayed around longer if Peter had stayed.

Peter is killer. If you have nothing by Mr. Gabriel, buy "Shaking the Tree" and then start building around that collection. He is a creative genius.

 

[binzing]

I've got that album and the new double one "Hits". He's great. I think Sledgehammer is really cool. Got the meaning? Should be obvious.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Okay, if we're going to talk about music and LOTR at the same time someone has to mention http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04".

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[binzing]

Actually I liked the soundtracks to the movies. Yeah, they have some weird stuff in the songs and literature of all of the different races in the books.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

You didn't follow that link, did you binzing? It's not from a soundtrack or any of the books, it's from the Final Frontier.

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