Making History Today - A Reflection

In summary: Not so great President.In summary, both Barack Obama and John McCain gave great speeches. McCain's supporters booed him whenever he mentioned Obama, but the Obama supporters clapped for McCain out of respect. Obama's speech was full of quotes from Lincoln, and it was a very proud day for black people. The man who was holding his child was white, and McCain said it was a proud day for black people. McCain also said that he wants to make changes for Joe the plumber. I thought both speeches were amazing, and I'm excited to see what Obama will do as president.
  • #36
This is fake, everyone knows that Armstrong was never on the Moon.

Besides, he was a trumpet player. They should know these things at NASA.
 
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  • #37
kasse said:
Congratulations America!

Me too :) Congratulations from Sweden.

Just for the game, I think a more even fight would have been more entertaining but at least it was a good end.

As a foreigner, I hope that Obama is the man to restore the view of America in world politics also in the eyes of the supposed enemies and bring more balance to the peace processes around the world. I hope his hands won't end up too tied by the economic crisis.

/Fredrik
 
  • #38
mhill said:
another question.. Obama itself was really born on USA ?? .. i think i have heard that his parents (at least one of them) come from Kenya
Obama's father is from Kenya. He was a student in the US when he met Obama's mother. According to records, Obama was born in Hawaii.
 
  • #39
John McCain said:
I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating him, but offering our next president our good will and earnest effort to find ways to come together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our differences and help restore our prosperity, defend our security in a dangerous world, and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger, better country than we inherited.
from McCain's concession speech.

Cheers to McCain!
 
  • #40
The best opportunity to show the class is not when you win, but when you loose.
 
  • #41
Andre said:
So, is included in the wholesale package also, continuation of the death penalty, no futher restrictions on weapon control, no improvement in tolerance for gays?

But of course it's like Louis Armstrong on the moon

I think this election signals a sea change in *some* American's view on those topics. I think a lot people thought they were aligned with the Republican Party's policies and world view, but after the last 8 years, realized otherwise.

Now I want to see where the Republicans go from here. Will they re-group and re-tool their party, or will they simply allow themselves to be defined as the "Not Obama Party"?

Love, love, love the picture - almost laughed coffee through my nose :wink: .
 
  • #42
Well, congrats to President-elect Obama and his supporters.

I'll have to draw hope from this part of his acceptance speech, "We may not get it done in a year, 2 years, a term..." and keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't drive us deeper into the economic ditch we're sliding into with his half-baked plans.

But, hey, when businesses downsize more or close down completely because they can't afford the higher taxes at a time when consumers can't afford to pay higher prices on their products, and the middle class wind up out of work and the formerly rich business owners are bankrupt, I'm sure he can redistribute the income to the unemployed, from...:rolleyes: From where again?
 
  • #43
Moonbear said:
Well, congrats to President-elect Obama and his supporters.

I'll have to draw hope from this part of his acceptance speech, "We may not get it done in a year, 2 years, a term..." and keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't drive us deeper into the economic ditch we're sliding into with his half-baked plans.

But, hey, when businesses downsize more or close down completely because they can't afford the higher taxes at a time when consumers can't afford to pay higher prices on their products, and the middle class wind up out of work and the formerly rich business owners are bankrupt, I'm sure he can redistribute the income to the unemployed, from...:rolleyes: From where again?
I have to admit that I have the same misgivings as you, but luckily the American system resists rapid changes. There will be change, but it probably (hopefully) won't be fast.
 
  • #44
Moonbear said:
But, hey, when businesses downsize more or close down completely because they can't afford the higher taxes at a time when consumers can't afford to pay higher prices on their products, and the middle class wind up out of work and the formerly rich business owners are bankrupt, I'm sure he can redistribute the income to the unemployed, from...:rolleyes: From where again?
That is a catch-22 situation. The federal government (treasury) is borrowing billions to finance itself and the recovery. Much of that comes from sovereign investment funds, which pulled money out of the US.

Presumably the government will borrow more, but then how to pay off $11 trillion in debt, interest on which is something like $500 billion now. And there is apparently more deficit spending on the way.

The question is then, where to cut expenses? Social security? Medicare/Medicaid? Defense? McCain would have been faced with the same problems as Obama now faces as president.


Meanwhile - an interesting article on expectations around the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7708238.stm
 
  • #45
Borek said:
I think it is the prerequisite.
No, he was born in Hawaii (USA), but he would have been a US citizen anyway because his mother was a US citizen. McCain wasn't born in the US - he was born in Panama, but that's OK, too.
 
  • #46
Astronuc said:
The question is then, where to cut expenses? Social security? Medicare/Medicaid? Defense? McCain would have been faced with the same problems as Obama now faces as president.

My bet is that path any president can follow now is rather narrow, so (to some extent) it doesn't matter much whom you choose - unless it is a blind idiot that will walk directly into ravine.
 
  • #47
Borek said:
My bet is that path any president can follow now is rather narrow, so (to some extent) it doesn't matter much whom you choose - unless it is a blind idiot that will walk directly into ravine.
The choices will be difficult, with many opportunities for error. The ignorance, imperialism and greed that have driven our administration for the last two terms carry a heavy price - one that we can never repay. The toll in lost and ruined lives alone is a shame.
 
  • #48
Borek said:
My bet is that path any president can follow now is rather narrow, so (to some extent) it doesn't matter much whom you choose - unless it is a blind idiot that will walk directly into ravine.
There was this article yesterday -

World hopes for a 'less arrogant America'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081104/ap_on_re_eu/eu_us_elections_world_view

I think Obama has a chance to repair the damage that Bush has done with respect to foreign relations.

Much will depend on how Obama moves forward with Iraq. Looking at it now - the occupation of Iraq looks a lot like the Soviet occupation of E. Europe after WWII, and it took nearly 45 years to change. I'm reading several books on the subject of Bush's war in Iraq, and one startling revelation by one general is that the US should plan to have military forces (and perhaps mercenaries) established in the region for 50 years. This draws parallels with the Soviet Warsaw pact, at least as Iraq (Baghdad) is concerned, and whether or not the US government is directly involved in who serves in the Iraqi government.

If Iraqis decided to have their country free of US forces, will that be the case? Will Iraq be allowed to independently established normalized trading relationships with Syria and Iran, or will their be pressure from the US and Sunni nations (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Egypt, . . .) to meddle in Iraqs relationship with Syria and Iran? These matters have yet to be resolved.


On the bright side and in parallel with the challenges facing the US and world:

Catholics, Muslims open landmark talks at Vatican
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081104/ts_nm/us_religion_dialogue
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Senior Vatican and Islamic scholars launched their first Catholic-Muslim Forum on Tuesday to improve relations between the world's two largest faiths by discussing what unites and divides them.

The three-day meeting comes two years after Pope Benedict angered the Muslim world with a speech implying Islam was violent and irrational. In response, 138 Muslim scholars invited Christian churches to a new dialogue to foster mutual respect through a better understanding of each other's beliefs.

In their manifesto, "A Common Word," the Muslims argued that both faiths shared the core principles of love of God and neighbor. The talks focus on what this means for the religions and how it can foster harmony between them.

The meeting, including an audience with Pope Benedict, is the group's third conference with Christians after talks with United States Protestants in July and Anglicans last month.

Delegation leaders Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran and Bosnian Grand Mufti Mustafa Ceric opened the session with a moment of silence so delegations, each comprising 28 members and advisers, could say their own prayers for its success.

. . . .
This is a very hopeful step in the right direction. :smile:
 
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  • #49
Moonbear said:
I'll have to draw hope from this part of his acceptance speech, "We may not get it done in a year, 2 years, a term..." and keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't drive us deeper into the economic ditch we're sliding into with his half-baked plans.
From everything I've read and seen, it was McCain who was coming up with half-baked economic plans at a rate of one a day. Obama gained respect from the WSJ and the Economist (to name a few) precisely for not doing that.
 
  • #50
Extracting our military from Iraq will be difficult and fraught with danger. The Saudis have influence with the Sunnis, and Iran has ties to the Shiia. The Kurds would like to have an autonomous country, but Turkey would probably fight that. Neighboring countries to the west have become refuges for displaced Iraqis who fled ethnic cleansing, and they have interests in the resolution of this situation, as well.

Bush could not have picked a more problematic region in which to establish himself as a "war president". Saddam was the US's military surrogate in the region for decades, and as bad as he was by some measures, he managed to contain religious fundamentalism that denies basic freedoms to women in that region. When there is an uneasy balance of power somewhere in the world, it is very dangerous to upset it with military intervention. Unfortunately, Halliburton and its subsidiaries do not make money from diplomacy, so diplomacy was never on the table.
 
  • #51
Is this the first time that (normal, non-head-of-state type) people from outside the U.S. congratulated Americans immediately after a Presidential election? And on a massive scale, I might add. I see this almost everywhere; blogs, internet forums, even in messages received by non-U.S. TV channels.

EDIT: Probably it's because there haven't been too many elections in the age of the Internet. :biggrin:
 
  • #52
Astronuc said:
Looking at it now - the occupation of Iraq looks a lot like the Soviet occupation of E. Europe after WWII, and it took nearly 45 years to change. I'm reading several books on the subject of Bush's war in Iraq, and one startling revelation by one general is that the US should plan to have military forces (and perhaps mercenaries) established in the region for 50 years. This draws parallels with the Soviet Warsaw pact

And don't forget that once Soviets moved from here we switched to our earlier customs, throwing socialism away. Question is if 50 years will be enough for the democracy to not be thrown away once Americans leave Iraq.
 
  • #53
neutrino said:
Is this the first time that (normal, non-head-of-state type) people from outside the U.S. congratulated Americans immediately after a Presidential election? And on a massive scale, I might add. I see this almost everywhere; blogs, internet forums, even in messages received by non-U.S. TV channels.

I have not congratulated, and not without a reason. While I prefer Obama I don't want to suggest I know better then Americans how to run US and who will be better.
 
  • #54
Astronuc said:
There was this article yesterday -

World hopes for a 'less arrogant America'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081104/ap_on_re_eu/eu_us_elections_world_view

I think Obama has a chance to repair the damage that Bush has done with respect to foreign relations.

Much will depend on how Obama moves forward with Iraq. Looking at it now - the occupation of Iraq looks a lot like the Soviet occupation of E. Europe after WWII, and it took nearly 45 years to change. I'm reading several books on the subject of Bush's war in Iraq, and one startling revelation by one general is that the US should plan to have military forces (and perhaps mercenaries) established in the region for 50 years. This draws parallels with the Soviet Warsaw pact, at least as Iraq (Baghdad) is concerned, and whether or not the US government is directly involved in who serves in the Iraqi government.

If Iraqis decided to have their country free of US forces, will that be the case? Will Iraq be allowed to independently established normalized trading relationships with Syria and Iran, or will their be pressure from the US and Sunni nations (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Egypt, . . .) to meddle in Iraqs relationship with Syria and Iran? These matters have yet to be resolved.


On the bright side and in parallel with the challenges facing the US and world:

Catholics, Muslims open landmark talks at Vatican
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081104/ts_nm/us_religion_dialogue
This is a very hopeful step in the right direction. :smile:

a 'less arrogant' america ? :rolleyes:

that's amusing. the world cheers when the russians do exactly what everyone expects them to do, rape and pillage Georgia.

sorry, but much of it just looks like politics to me. foreign governments love to point to america as the arrogant bully to distract attention from themselves, much like many islamic governments make a scapegoat of israel for their problems.

there are some realities here that no one seems to talk about, though. that there are oil and gas reserves in and around the Caspian. and that other great powers, the Russians and Chinese would also like to control these reserves.

now, who should control it? and don't say the people who own it, because you know that isn't going to happen.
 
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  • #55
Cyrus:
...Can you imagine how Bush must feel right now. People all over america went into the streets and started celebrating like it was new years!...

It was more like the 4th of July and New Year's Eve here in the Bronx!

What a great feeling!

ONE
 
  • #56
Alex Castellanos, Rep media consultant, commented last night that Obama did something he has never seen before: Obama told Americans that he he will need our help.

This is how Obama changed Presidential politics and coordinated a miracle, and it is how he intends to change the country - he will strive for national unity and a consensus, which is the antithesis of what we have seen in recent years.
 
  • #57
..."I applaud the American people for their courage and the great morality that they showed," Afghan President Hamid Karzai said. French President Nicolas Sarkozy was even more glowing in a letter to Obama: "In choosing you, the American people have chosen the path of change, openness and optimism. Your election raises immense hope in France, Europe and beyond: the hope of an open America."

Nelson Mandela, as qualified as he is complimentary in his comments, gushed, "Your victory has demonstrated that no person anywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place."

Newspapers at first stumbled over each other to declare Obama the winner, and then to find the language to match the moment...
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=6189422&page=1
 
  • #58
One rather interesting comment on race, and the race. If it wasn't for white voters, Obama wouldn't have gotten the black vote. Until the Iowa caucusses, Hillary had a huge lead with blacks, and it was only after lilly-white Iowa voted for Obama that the blacks came on board. Before that, they generally didn't believe that Obama could win. As a middle-aged white guy, I felt much the same way. But Iowa changed everything.
 
  • #59
Moonbear said:
Well, congrats to President-elect Obama and his supporters.

I'll have to draw hope from this part of his acceptance speech, "We may not get it done in a year, 2 years, a term..." and keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't drive us deeper into the economic ditch we're sliding into with his half-baked plans.

But, hey, when businesses downsize more or close down completely because they can't afford the higher taxes at a time when consumers can't afford to pay higher prices on their products, and the middle class wind up out of work and the formerly rich business owners are bankrupt, I'm sure he can redistribute the income to the unemployed, from...:rolleyes: From where again?

Yeah, McCain's policies were so sound. :rolleyes:
 
  • #60
Dear Rest of the World,

We didn't screw it up.

- America
___________________________________________________________________________

=]
 
  • #61
he also wasn't "black enough" for a lot of black voters at first. took a while to warm up to him.
 
  • #62
Here's a tune that popped into my head last night when it was clear that Virginia was going to Obama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnS9M03F-fA
 
  • #63
Hey, Cyrus, you don't look gold yet!
 
  • #64
cristo said:
Hey, Cyrus, you don't look gold yet!

You think john16O chickened out?
 
  • #65
Borek said:
You think john16O chickened out?

Could be: there are lots of witnesses though!
 
  • #66
Borek said:
You think john16O chickened out?

It looks like he made me a Gold Member instead. Are you sure the deal was that he made YOU a Gold Member?
 
  • #68
With all of the enthusiasm for Obama, I had almost forgotten one of the most important ramifications of this elections:
The Supreme Court is safe!
 
  • #69
CaptainQuasar said:
If nothing else, I can definitely say that I wish McCain had become president in 2000 rather than what actually happened.
⚛​

I was thinking the same exact thing last night.

Borek said:
Haven't seen that, but from your description sounds like he had hands occupied with the kid.

True, but he didn't look amused...at all. I'm not trying to draw any conclusions, just looked funny at the moment.
 
  • #70
Ivan Seeking said:
With all of the enthusiasm for Obama, I had almost forgotten one of the most important ramifications of this elections:
The Supreme Court is safe!
That's what I said last night, that was my biggest reason for voting for Obama. We need to keep a balance in the Supreme Court.
 

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