My feedback, one month and half experience in PF so far

[pines-demon]

Hello everybody I have being in PF for about one month and a half and I would like to share my advice on my experience on the site so far. I am still figuring out how it works and what is the best use of this site. Due to some setbacks I have mixed feelings but still positive on continuing explore this forum. I will start by sharing some of the good stuff I have found, and then deal with some stuff that I have found troublesome. Again, I find myself responsible for any trouble I might have caused but I think it is mostly because I still a rookie here.

The good stuff : It is a truly physics focused site. You can find threads with users that know about lots of stuff and are centered to discuss physics with the proper terminology and sources when required. The conversational aspect of the forum is particularly great, as comments are ordered in the way that appear and it is not a competition to get a best comment or best response like other internet sites. The ability to quote allows to respond to a particular comment in an orderly manner. The UI is also very great as it allows latex and video sharing with a very large range of formatting options. I love also the Insight Blogs, it has a lot of great takes from experts in particular fields that are doing a great work to provide a popular science content that is accessible to laypersons but also interesting for those that are already trained in some physics.

For example, I have been feeding an anecdotes in physics thread and I have love how people and I can add more and more stuff and keep track of it in orderly manner. The thread is also easy to find when people add stuff. I do not know any physics dedicated site that allows something similar.

I also have to say that private messaging has being very positive experience in getting some people to explain me an idea or two when my question about something they said is off topic.

The things where I am a lost at so far: not enough guidelines. Aside from the "no spam", "no illegal stuff", "being polite" and "stick to the subject" rules it seems like a pretty flexible, directed by mostly "common sense", and not at all what I would have expected. I am still trying to figure out for example what is the mentor's role in the forum (see next part), aside from closing a post when needed. I have to say that I have had a positive experience with the report button, but most of the time it has been a guess on things that seemed not acceptable.

Aside from rules in here it would be nice to have some kind of guidelines on how to open a question and what we should aim for. For example, I have seen people that just come to the site to post a video or a news article without much context and a conversation follows naturally, with users giving their opinions and criticism, but in other cases doing the same just starts a conversation on "what do you want with this" or "you should have a question related to this" and the thread goes nowhere. For classic homework questions it is also the same, I know that some precision is needed and previous work has to be shown, but, unless the question is written in a textbook exercise format where the response almost falls right out, I have seem mixed levels of attitude to respond from users.

I also think there is a feature that is missing (but I cannot tell exactly what it should be). Some feature where somebody should be able to keep track of arguments in order to construct some consensus. I think that in most conversations where users talk past each other are based on the conversational aspect of the threads where after a few comments you kind of lose track of what has already been said. It is like building a house of cards of arguments, at some point it falls because not everyone is keeping track of everything. Maybe the initial post should always be editable to allow to keep track of this? Maybe not, Any ideas?

The rough stuff: the internet is a very raw place. Due to the written nature of it, it's hard to read the intentions or the mood of users. This is not a specific problem of PF but it does not escape it. The quoting feature that I like so much it is also a double-edged sword here for "low-hanging fruit" complaints. Example: A phrase like "I would like to know about the formation of Kerr black holes, what evidence we have of them and if they follow $E=mc^3$..." will quickly lead to a reply of the form:

if they follow $E=mc^3$

"it is actually $E=mc^2$, you should learn about the topic, it is all wrong!". This is a cartoon example but it is mostly what happens here. Some people may look for quick corrections of mistakes and over-genearalize on how is all wrong, instead of discussing whole arguments. This nitpicking quickly leads to confrontational discussions where two users start mostly to quote just sections of what the others replies and neglecting the rest, leading each to their own self-debate. This element followed by sarcastic comebacks or misrepresentations of the whole argument makes it hard to go back to the main topic. I have found that in most conversations, this would happen at some point specially where there is room for interpretation.

The mentoring part is also a part of PF that worries me. I have sometimes declared to not understand how some feature of the site works only to be responded with succinct comebacks. I just wish that mentors had also some guidelines on how to behave specially when asked for clarification on how to handle a discussion. Shouldn't the mentors be here to help when asked for clarifications about how the site works?

I also worry on the authoritarian take of some users (mentors or not) on how they handle other users comments. Through a series of sarcastic questions and/or nitpicking comebacks try to make you say something wrong, push you into personal criticism or to apologize for a minor thing taken out of context. Am I the only one having that feeling? I do not know how this should be handled under the rules here.

Last point I think that the site is full of humor which is great. But it would be nice to be able to discard some comments when they are not necessary. A joke on some topic can go on for several comments blocking out the main topic.

Closing statement: This is not to pinpoint anybody in particular, nor to demand a change in anyway. Again the issues I am pointing out are mostly me not being used to this whole site or to the nature of the internet, but I can understand how it may not fit for some people. I still will continue trying to figure out what is the best way to get something out of this site. Any further suggestions are welcome.

 

[Drakkith]

The things where I am a lost at so far: not enough guidelines. Aside from the "no spam", "no illegal stuff", "being polite" and "stick to the subject" rules it seems like a pretty flexible, directed by mostly "common sense", and not at all what I would have expected.

This is by design. Why have pages and pages of rules that must be constantly updated until they become a bloated monstrosity that would be a nightmare to try and follow? Most folks wouldn't read them anyways, and most of the rest would be irritated by everyone who doesn't. A 'common sense' approach works probably at least as well as trying to have a large set of rules in my opinion. Really, the only specific rules that need to be explicitly stated are ones that are unique to PF, such as acceptable references, how to post homework questions, etc.

I am still trying to figure out for example what is the mentor's role in the forum (see next part), aside from closing a post when needed.

'Mentor' is PF's name for forum moderators. We are volunteers that enforce rules, manage threads and posts when necessary, handle disputes between members, etc. The vast majority of our work goes on behind the scenes and is not visible to the average user.

I have to say that I have had a positive experience with the report button, but most of the time it has been a guess on things that seemed not acceptable.

If you are ever in doubt about whether something is acceptable or not, feel free to report it anyways and explain in the report that you are not sure. Or you can contact a mentor directly through a PM to ask.

The mentoring part is also a part of PF that worries me. I have sometimes declared to not understand how some feature of the site works only to be responded with succinct comebacks. I just wish that mentors had also some guidelines on how to behave specially when asked for clarification on how to handle a discussion. Shouldn't the mentors be here to help when asked for clarifications about how the site works?

Indeed. I can't say I've seen too many posts by mentors that are distinctly unhelpful to a member politely asking a question, but I will admit that many of us have come to use 'snark' perhaps a bit too often. I expect it's a coping mechanism developed after years of exposure to crackpots, rude members, and the fumes in the janitors closet where all the forum cleanup supplies are stored.

I also think there is a feature that is missing (but I cannot tell exactly what it should be). Some feature where somebody should be able to keep track of arguments in order to construct some consensus. I think that in most conversations where users talk past each other are based on the conversational aspect of the threads where after a few comments you kind of lose track of what has already been said. It is like building a house of cards of arguments, at some point it falls because not everyone is keeping track of everything. Maybe the initial post should always be editable to allow to keep track of this? Maybe not, Any ideas?

I agree with your view on losing track of the topic of a thread, but the issue here is that the goal of PF is to give people a place to discuss mainstream science, not to come to a consensus about some topic. As for letting the original post be editable, that usually leads to even more confusion, as members tend to edit their posts in response to criticism. When reading a thread there should be a permanent record of what has been said right from the start. Otherwise you tend to have the first few posts quoting and responding to something that is no longer shown in the original post.

I also worry on the authoritarian take of some users (mentors or not) on how they handle other users comments. Through a series of sarcastic questions and/or nitpicking comebacks try to make you say something wrong, push you into personal criticism or to apologize for a minor thing taken out of context. Am I the only one having that feeling?

No, you are not the only one. Here on PF, like most online or offline communities, certain personalities come to dominate over others, to the benefit or detriment of the community. This is especially true for members that have been here for 10+ years, with tens of thousands of posts under their belt. Like it or not, you can't escape the attitudes, egos, and personalities of people even with the heavy moderation that we have on PF. I wish everyone had infinite patience, the best communication skills, and never felt the need to use sarcasm or belittle others, but that's a standard I cannot hold even myself to, let alone others.

Last point I think that the site is full of humor which is great. But it would be nice to be able to discard some comments when they are not necessary. A joke on some topic can go on for several comments blocking out the main topic.

Feel free to report these kinds of posts. I can promise you that more will happen if you report them than if you don't.

Closing statement: This is not to pinpoint anybody in particular, nor to demand a change in anyway. Again the issues I am pointing out are mostly me not being used to this whole site or to the nature of the internet, but I can understand how it may not fit for some people. I still will continue trying to figure out what is the best way to get something out of this site. Any further suggestions are welcome.

My best advice is to have patience. I cannot moderate the personality out of people or make them any more helpful than they want to be. The absolute best thing you can do is to take the time to make a high-quality post, shrug any sarcasm or other 'snark' off as best you can, and to avoid escalating any conflicts to the best of your ability. If you think someone is truly behaving in a manner that is unacceptable, please report them to the moderators so we can handle it.