- #36
bob012345
Gold Member
- 2,080
- 912
How about a bullhorn in the shelter so they can hear you call for help a mile away...
https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/10/aa/90/10aa90c7fab8fafd82abfeefdde4ceec.jpgbob012345 said:How about a bullhorn in the shelter so they can hear you call for help a mile away...
I didn't build the actual concrete shelter but purchased it from:bob012345 said:For those of us that are lazy and don't want to build a shelter, here's one that fits under a bed.
https://allsharktankproducts.com/shark-tank-products-home/storm-shelter-bed-by-life-lift-systems/
Sure, have a good fire extinguisher but what are the odds of a serious fire in an all concrete buried storm shelter while waiting the few tens of minutes for a tornado to pass? I'd be more worried about sitting in concentrated Radon gas that accumulated over the year.anorlunda said:What kind of fire extinguisher? I ask because a confined space full of people from which they can not immediately escape is especially hazardous in case of fire. I had a similar dilemma living on a small boat at sea.
The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations, is very bad for people to inhale. Halon, and CO2 extinguishers are also bad in a confined environment because they displace oxygen.
Wet foam extinguishers are the solution. The foam is not toxic, will not be inhaled, does not displace oxygen, not corrosive, and easy to clean up. Some of them are rated ABC.
Also not an issue for tens of minutes. Radon-222 has a half life of 4 days, so it doesn't accumulate that much. It leads to Lead-210 which stays radioactive (half life 22 years), but that activity accumulates very slowly and it can be removed by removing the dust in the shelter.bob012345 said:I'd be more worried about sitting in concentrated Radon gas that accumulated over the year.
The 5-BC rated extinguisher we keep in the kitchen lists the contents as:anorlunda said:The most popular and inexpensive kind of fire extinguisher is the dry chemical type. That fine powder (I think silica) in high concentrations...
anorlunda said:Wet foam extinguishers are the solution.
https://servicefireequip.com/en/blog/38-how-dangerous-is-fire-extinguisher-powder
Fire Extinguisher Powder Inhalation
Fire extinguisher powder inhalation is one of the biggest dangers with fire extinguishers. It is very irritating to mucous membranes and may cause difficulties with breathing if inhaled in large enough quantities. [emphasis mine] Usually, in a small fire situation where you would be using one of the commonly seen extinguishers, there would not be enough dust to be breathed in. However, if it does happen, you should go to the hospital. The dust may coat your lungs on the inside, which can prevent oxygen from reaching the rest of the body.
Thanks for this. I'll replace the one that's in there now.anorlunda said:Wet foam extinguishers are the solution.
Better safe than sorry.anorlunda said:I don't want to alarm people about ordinary household fire extinguishers
Yeah, maybe better to switch to MREs instead. Some come with a Flamless Ration Heater to give you the ability to have a hot meal:Averagesupernova said:The most dangerous thing I see that is actually in the shelter are the propane bottles. My opinion.
I've thought the same thing. But propane is very useful in a shelter maybe just for lighting for a few minutes.Vanadium 50 said:There seems to be a difference of opinion on exactly what such a shelter is for. Some think one occupies it for less than an hour while the worst of the storm passes. Others think you might be living in for days because the house has been blown away, probably to land on some witch somewhere. Of course the different use cases have different requirements, capabilities and risks.
Ouch! Glad that they survived.Averagesupernova said:Knowing someone personally who was involved in a propane explosion gives me second thoughts. It was a basement filled waist high with gas. No smell, leaky underground pipe and the gas made it into the basement.
Ah, interesting. I did not know that.Averagesupernova said:Propane loses its smell after filtering through the soil.
I don't ever want to find out personally. This is what I was told at the time. The construction company being involved in lawsuits over the deal implied that I could believe it when I was told.berkeman said:Ah, interesting. I did not know that.
Averagesupernova said:But propane is very useful in a shelter maybe just for lighting for a few minutes.
LOL. Back in hunting camp we used to have a running joke about this. When a newbie to the group went to light a propane lantern, someone would invariably yell out, "Hey, anybody know anything about these Coleman lanterns?"dlgoff said:I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Hell it's just a small 16 oz bottle of propane. Have you ever head of one exploding or even leaking?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming certain death for you. It's just a consideration.dlgoff said:I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Hell it's just a small 16 oz bottle of propane. Have you ever head of one exploding or even leaking?
The rate of houses blown away ("I want to live elsewhere for a while") should be much lower than the rate of a risk of such an event ("I better go into the shelter").Vanadium 50 said:There seems to be a difference of opinion on exactly what such a shelter is for. Some think one occupies it for less than an hour while the worst of the storm passes. Others think you might be living in for days because the house has been blown away, probably to land on some witch somewhere. Of course the different use cases have different requirements, capabilities and risks.
I think you are a bit more skilled
Yes, there's a CO detector on the wall behind where the camp stove is.berkeman said:BTW, I think you may have addressed this before (you said you have a CO detector I think), but how do you ventilate this flame when you are cooking. Do you use some sort of a hood arrangement?
https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/where-should-i-place-carbon-monoxide-detector said:Because carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air ... detectors should be placed on a wall about 5 feet above the floor.
There's are blowers in both in and out ducts. The air flow rate is very high; almost feels like a tornado inside. No pun intended. Here's a picture showing the air flow direction in & out of the shelter:berkeman said:how do you ventilate this flame when you are cooking.
Definitely!dlgoff said:I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Hell it's just a small 16 oz bottle of propane. Have you ever head of one exploding or even leaking?
Ever consider testing? Stick it under water. You would see a slow leak. I've been using propane torches for probably 30 years and have never experienced this.Tom.G said:The valve in the cylinder is the same design as the tire valve on your car, it depends on a spring pushing a seal against a valve seat. If there is any imperfection or dirt there, it leaks.