Need some good minds to wrap around this

[xild]

Okay. I know this is going to sound wacko, but I want to say that I am skeptical and simply am searching for a logical answer.

Here is what happened to me in 1987.

I went to a Spiritual Science Conference of about eleven people. I was there, mainly, because I was skeptical and drove from the east coast to Hot Springs Arkansas because of curiosity.

The week was spent learning about all kinds of voodoo, The keys of Enoch; crystal power; channelling, and such stuff. We also learned a few interesting things: for instance, it was the first time I learned about abundant, free energy patents that never made it through to production.

anyway, the culmination of the event was that all of us went into the attic of a Victorian House in which a large Tesla Coil was continually running, along with some music.

We were to sit in a circle and then close our eyes. No opening of eyes was permitted. The guy in charge was going to "channel." I, of course, opened my eyes, and looked around the room at everyone else who had their eyes closed.

From the leader of this conference, I saw emerge a ghostlike form. It appeared to emerge from his chest. From my friend, a female, I only saw the hazy grey around her chest. In him, though, it became a form, that of a typical "grey" alien.

It looked directly at me and I felt negative energy directed toward me. It was just then the ghostlike form retreated into the man's body and the man himself said, Amen and amen, ending the event.

He would not talk to me about it.

I know, strange. But I was most concerned about the female who was living in this house, as the caretaker and basically the slave of these two new age celebrities.

what I learned is that hallucinations can and often do occur if one is near a strong magnetic field. I managed to ask a simple question to Dr. Nick Begich on Coast to Coast AM and he said yes, it was possible to hallucinate near the tesla coil. He told me to look up Persinger on the net.

I was wondering if any of you can come up with an explanation (other than I am a complete nut because I am not) I have never seen anything like this, nor heard of anyone seeing anything like this.

Certainly, there are accounts of people seeing aliens, ufos, and ghosts. But this was some kind of mix of alien emerging from a human.

what bothers me is that very shortly after this happened, this celebrity new age moneymaker renounced everything he had ever written or taught and told everyone to simply go back to the Bible. Something he had encountered had frightened him very badly.

I have over the years, asked this question to many forums, and have not gotten an answer or an answer that made any logical sense.

Thank you in advance.

 

[username]

I am no expert

I would say this is a hallicination or a very vivid dream state, I would forget about it. If you really like this stuff i suggest gooing raving. It all seems very fruadian.

 

[Overdose]

Id say to dismiss it as a random hallucination would be foolish, and odviously that doesn't satisfy your intellect otherwise you wouldn't be posting this (i assume).

I personaly think when your playing around with strong electro-magnetic fields your almost opening a door way for entitys from other dimensions to 'get in' as it were.
Someone posted a link on this forum a while back (possibly ivan) about a guy conducting experiments with electro-magnetic fields who discovered he could get classic poltergeist activity and manifistations simply by setting up some very simple equipment in a small room.
Id have a search on this site for that thead as it was a very interesting link, sorry i can't remember the exact name of the thread no doubt it had 'ghosts' in the title or something similar.
Id also look into the link between ghosts/spirts/entiys whatever you want to call them and areas of strong electro-magnetic activity, there's undeniable correlation between them...

 

[xild]

Thanks overdose

You are correct. I really won't be satisfied until I have thoroughly examined this from a scientific point of view.

I am now thinking that I may have experienced something other than a hallucination, but then again, the unconscious mind surprises me all the time.

Add in the mix of another person, controlled conditions, and my eyes open, and I still don't know what to think.

I will perform a search and thank you for your time.

 

[zoobyshoe]

xild,

I believe what you saw was an hallucination, but not caused by the EM field of the teslacoil. Rather, it was probably a more simple hypnotically induced hallucination : sitting quietly in that ritualistic atmosphere with the music and sound of the tesla coil no doubt put you, and maybe others, into a trance state. Once there the stuff you saw was created from the material of the subject matter you'd been hearing about the whole time, and your attitudes about the people.

I agree with username that the content of what you saw may have been a kind of psychological metaphor for how you felt those two people stood in relation to each other.

Anyone who meditates for very long is liable to fall into this kind of trance. It is actually a common problem in buddhist monasteries, but eventually the students learn how to handle it. I read a story about a novice buddhist who was seen bringing a knife to meditation with him. Asked why, he responded it was to kill the huge spider that always came and sat near him while he was trying to meditate. The master then proved the spider wasn't actually there and that his best course of action was to ignore it if it showed up again and concentrate on his breathing (the explanation for these kinds of hallucinations being, then, that people seem to sometimes start to hold their breath when meditating.

The main reason I don't think it was the EM field from the tesla coil is that the frequencies that Dr. Persinger has found to work are all under 60 hz. A tesla coil oscillates in the megaherz range, I believe, millions of cycles a second. Much too fast.

Not that the coil was innocent of a contribution. Because it was running continuously, it must have generated a lot of ozone in that room. In addition, the constant sound of it must have been a kind of point of mental fascination, analagous to the stereotype of the watch swinging on a chain.

 

[Overdose]

xild may i ask the name of the spiritual leader? id been intersted to know because I've been reading about some very similar experiences lately by a group of people who have published books on various newage themes and are involved in channeling. Their experiences seem to mirror the experiences your talking about here. Just curious to know if there might be a connection. Thanks

 

[xild]

So there must have been something other than a tesla coil in there because this, couldn't have been a "complete" fabrication of my mind. I have heard, somewhere, that some kinds of frequencies generate more realistic hallucinations and others help the mind generate, a ghostlike quality. At that time, seeing an alien emerge from a human body was beyond what I thought my imagination was capable of. And the young woman was the one I was concerned about. She was living in the house, like some kind of indentured servant to Randall and Vicki Baer, authors of "The Crystal Connection, and other books about quartz crystals."

The Group then run by Randall and Vicki Baer? I can't remember. But an internet search will help me find it again. There was a name for the company under which they operated the retreats. It's logo included a large wave.

The groups had been running one after another but after mine, Randall Baer supposedly went into another channelling session, his last. He was doing this, supposedly, to write his new book about some kind of NWO plans. This is all vague to me now, possibly because everything was a secret. But I know he died mysteriously with a copy of his real new book, one in which he retracted all his spiritual science teachings and told people to go back to the Bible. Before he died, they even tried getting their new age followers to listen and believe in stuff Randall had learned about Jesus, and it was a huge flop. Again, I was witness to this stuff for what reason, I will never know. I was simply drawn there after seeing Randall in Main Line Philadelphia, at a conference. when he walked by me, I felt a pull and at that time I was suspect of all kinds of cults, having grown up in a Fundamentalist Baptist church in the north.

Vicki, we learned at the last retreat, was not married to Randall, and she took the most gorgeous young man out of the group for her husband. Within a month, he was no longer a strong, physical looking male who had ridden his bike from Callifornia, to Arkansas, to be at our retreat, but a version of my father, paunch included. (Vicki was a large woman/ Randall was very thin.) Vicki's new husband's first name was Thomas. Again, from Cally. Everyone had previously thought Randall and Vicki Baer were married. Of course, thus the two sharing the same name.

So this stunt, above, combined with the complete 360 of what Randall had been teaching, often makes me believe, that after our session in which I saw something not solid, emerge from Randall's chest, toss me an ugly look, then retreat back into him, could have been what startled Randall. he speaks after that time of being possessed. Because Randall wouldn't talk to me about what I had seen (I wasn't supposed to be looking), I have always been suspect, and then of course his mysterious death. And then out. Nothing more about it.

Again, thank you all for putting your thinking hats on for me. I really appreciate any information you may have about this. If there is another group that has experienced what I have I would really love to connect with them.

Now I am confused about the Tesla coil. Since the man on Coast to Coast said immediately that a Coil could cause hallucinations, he then directly me to Persinger, whom I hope to get to today on the net. But yes, with the noise of the coil and the chanting music as well, there was sort of an eerie feeling about it, but I was not meditating in any manner, and was highly suspect and in no sense a Randall Baer believer when I saw what I saw.

A lot of religious web sites now cite what happened to Randall as a warning to get out of the New Age mysteries. Yet they are continuing to sell the old books.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Most people believe that hallucinations always "give themselves away", so to speak, by appearing to be less solid to the sences in some way, than real things.

In fact, that is almost never true about hallucinations. In most cases they pass every test of their reality. If you can see an hallucination, you will almost certainly also be able to touch it, possibly smell it, taste it and hear it.

You might be very interested to rent the film A Beautiful Mind, which is a true story, which demonstrates that hallucinations seem indistinguishable from real things to the person who is hallucinating. The main character hallucinated a friend for years before a crisis lead him to even suspect the friend might not be real. He then put facts together and noticed that this friend's little niece had been about age 8 for several years, never aging. Both she, and the friend, were the products of his mind.

In the case of your alien, you have, at least, the fact that, as far as anyone knows, the existence of aliens is unprovable, and also the knowledge that one physically real being cannot enter into another, to prod you to question if this incident was real or hallucinated.

Unfortunately, you cannot judge it according to how real it looked. Hallucinations can pass that test and yet they are still hallucinations. Hallucinations are different from reality because they are generated from within the brain by neurological processes. The brain is reacting to false data it, itself generated.



Also: you don't need to have been actively trying to meditate to have been put into a trance by the situation. Breathing the ozone, having your eyes closed, sitting without speaking in a strange group situation, hearing the tesla coil zapping, all these would have put you in a state of hypnosis without any particular mental effort on your part.

I really do not believe there was anything physically real about what you saw. I do think it was a metaphorical embodyment of how you saw the relationship between those two people. The bad look the alien gave you was a metaphorical embodyment of how you felt that man regarded you. It is just like what your mind does in a dream. Instead of expressing how you think the man feels about you as a verbal thing "That guy sure doesn't like me!", your mind will create a 3-d scenario that represents the same thought.

In your unconscious mind there was something so disturbing about that man that he reminded you of how you feel about your concept of an alien.

If you sit down and work through your personal reactions to the concept of an alien, you will probably find a big overlap with your gut emotional reaction to that weird person.

 

[xild]

I have never heard of aliens inhabiting human beings, nor have I heard of humans masquerading as aliens.

You are correct as can be there.

However, I still need to understand what caused the hallucination to appear so real to me.

Note: I had my eyes OPEN. not closed. Not that it makes any difference.

And really, I wasn't expecting much to happen, since not much happened the rest of the week. Nothing unexplainable. Vicki channelled to each of us once, and she was pretty lame in her "take on me."

It was like going to any two bit psychic who can tell you what any other person in the world can tell you about yourself with some intense observation.

"you are not a wealthy woman." Well, no biggie, because if I were I wouldn't be wearing shoes from the five and dime rather than Dr. martins.

thanks again! Please, keep your thinking caps on. I have emailed Dr. michael Persinger. I hope he will write me back and not consider me another loon.

 

[Overdose]

im not going to bang on about how i don't hold with zooby's slightly freudian analysis, i personally think these events could be real, but there's no proof either way, me and zoobyshoe wernt there with you so our ideas of what happened are really based on nothing more than our imbeded beliefs about what is and isn't possible.
Although i will say I've been meditating for the past ten years and to see something that isn't there requires litterly hours apon hours of meditation, even then it would be quite rare for you to have one.

To be honest with you i doubt you'll find much in the way of hard science that will explain what you saw. Ghosts and aliens? the majority of scientists arnt going to touch that subject with a 10 foot barge pole.
From a bit of research i did find out about something called the hutchinson effect coined by dr. john hutchinson to describe the strange phenomanon caused by tesla coils.
heres's some links i found
http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/151-200/article158_body.html
http://www.hutchisoneffect.org/
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/otherdevices/hutchison/hutchison.htm

btw yeah i do know he's not a real scientist, but that's the best i could find for the time being, there really should be more research into this...

 

[xild]

The fact he's not a "real" scientist doesn't bother me. THANK YOU So much!

 

[Overdose]

The fact he's not a "real" scientist doesn't bother me. THANK YOU So much!

no probs

 

[xild]

and I also appreciate zoobyshoe's comments, because, it's an aid to keep me grounded about the incident. I don't believe the creature was real. Likely it was fabricated.

If the "creature" was real, I would think, Hmmm., maybe Randall's trying to bring these things into the world, and using us to host them. That's a great Sci Fi story but I don't believe that.

I do know Randall himself thought he was "possessed" after he "saw the light" so to speak, the light of God, Jesus, and the Bible, etc.

But I didn't know that when it happened. My experience happened just before Randall closed shop and moved on to writing a different book, Called "The New Age Nightmare."

So, still thinking the hallucination was fabricated, I am still doubtful I drummed it up myself. Although I am now contradicting myself since I have previously said the unconscious will surprise me/us every time. I am an artist and work with unconscious material, so I know how powerful and surprising it can be. You create something you think is coming out too cliche and as time goes on that piece of art shows you many different stories about yourself. and it also shows other people stories about themselves.

So I agree it is quite possible I dreamed this up myself. I just find it strange that the session was cut very short (it was supposed to be an hour and it only lasted maybe 15 minutes); that my hallucination retreated into Randall's close-eyed body a milisecond before Randall ended the session; and the fact that Randall would never discuss it with me.

This was way back in 1987 and, though I have tried to understand it since, I have also since had other strange symptoms, and for some reason it pops out in my conscious mind from time to time.

Strange symtpoms since then, the development of Multiple Sclerosis, lesions in my C spine, probably lumbar spine and some in my brain, even in my visual cortex and brain stem.

Before this diagnosis, I was seeing things while I was awake, without emotion, just random scenes from somewhere in time. I could be watching these with my eyes closed and telling them to the person lying next to me and they would keep going.

I have also had prophetic and psychic experiences since.

I admit, these may have been unrelated, I just wonder if these magnetic fields could have caused me to be experiencing some sort of mimic of MS.

Anyway...

 

[kirkmcloren]

Hallucinations are often of the "dreaming whilst awake" state. The vision expresses your feelings toward what you are seeing.
Seems consistent with your feelings re these personalities.

 

[xild]

kirkmcloren: thanks. succinct.

I guess I hallucinated this whole thing. I was my first and only hallucination while awake. I still don't understand how I my skeptical self, could have had this happen. The strange things that followed have added to my obsession, which I suppose I am going to have to let go.

I really didn't find anything from the information given here, though I apperciate it beyond words can express.

More than the sound of the tesla coil and music putting me into a vulnerable state, I was darned if I was going to keep my eyes closed and experience anything! Then, of course, I did. And what I experienced I still cannot reconcile.

that I, myself could have hallucinated this is beyond me. I want to know how it was arranged by someone other than myself. :shy:

I guess that isn't going to be an answer I find in here and y'all seem to be serious about debunking things.

Thanks again, y'all. I'm re reading this thread to see what I have missed.

 

[zoobyshoe]

that I, myself could have hallucinated this is beyond me. I want to know how it was arranged by someone other than myself. :shy:

There could be something to this notion. Some person there could have "primed" you for this experience at some point, and caused you to forget the "priming" experience.

The whole thing sounds cult-like in flavor, and there is really no telling what might have been going on, what people's motives were, but self-styled teachers and gurus are often just out for power and influence over other people. That being the case, it is possible there was a post-hypnotic suggestion planted at some point before this session.

That is just one possibility.

In general, though, you still seem not to realize that almost all hallucinations are so real-appearing that you can't distinguish them from reality. They don't look "unreal" somehow. You can't count on something like that to tip you off. Content is the main thing that might suggest an experience is an hallucination.

I had a full blown hallucination, once, during sleep paralysis, and, at the time, the thought I might be hallucinating didn't even enter my head. It was "obviously" real. What tipped me off was the fact that these two guys who had invaded my room just suddenly evaporated, and I could move again, I was no longer paralyzed. While they were there, I could see them, hear them, and feel them (one was holding me down on the bed). There was no indication whatever they weren't real.

My point is that your mind can cook up super real hallucinations all on its own with no need of outside influence. The fact it was real looking doesn't mean some outside person must have cause it somehow.

 

[donnie]

Hey there
Really cool stuff I think. Had some experiences myself as (being in Africa) we're pretty close to ancestral interaction and studies. There are many similar experiences all ver the world I'm sure. This is how I see it:

... it was the first time I learned about abundant, free energy patents that never made it through to production.[/qQUOTE]
Most of the things around us, including ourselves are made up of energy. I think the more energy systems there are that have opportunities to 'interact' or collide I suppose, the more we will be able to see it, e.g. smoke over lazers, etc.

into the attic of a Victorian House in which a large Tesla Coil was continually running, along with some music.

I'm sure the attic might have been for impact but could be because less energy can 'escape'.

We were to sit in a circle and then close our eyes. No opening of eyes was permitted. The guy in charge was going to "channel."

Yu're in a circle so as to 'focus' your energies to a centre point, allowing more energies to interact - like the smoke on a laser beam. One or a few peple need to just have the ability to extend more brain energy so as to 'channel' or focus the group's combined energy.

From the leader of this conference, I saw emerge a ghostlike form. It appeared to emerge from his chest. From my friend, a female, I only saw the hazy grey around her chest. In him, though, it became a form, that of a typical "grey" alien.

It's natural for forms to be produces when these energies interact. It's also natural for us as humans to categorise or name that form based on our experiences, like 'cloud-watching'. We interpret what we see in the best way we can, to justify the experience. Sometimes things just are.

It looked directly at me and I felt negative energy directed toward me. It was just then the ghostlike form retreated into the man's body and the man himself said, Amen and amen, ending the event.

The feeling of negative energy could be due to you not having focused your energy output which creates a 'void' in the energy circle, allowing the form to appear to be looking at you or rising toward you - kind of like opening a door letting out smoke from a room. It's a natural gap for energy to take to allow it to continue moving. Energy in its natural state is moving and not contained. Consider human's intention to harness natural energy - this is incredibly challenging.

He would not talk to me about it.

He's probably unsure how to verbalise his experience, but that's just it - it's HIS experience, not yours.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Strange symtpoms since then, the development of Multiple Sclerosis, lesions in my C spine, probably lumbar spine and some in my brain, even in my visual cortex and brain stem.

I forgot to comment on this. It may be worthwhile to consider that you already had some MS lesions way back at the time of this incident that made you more suseptible to the hypnotic atmosphere of the session. This whole incident may have been the first breakthrough symptom, brought on by the unusual circumstances. Seems like a reasonable thing to bear in mind.

 

[xild]

So brain lesions, or brain abnormalities of any kind? can predispose one to hallucinations. I have had "auditory illusions" since but these are usually caused by a constant sound in the environment, such as a heater or fan. Hmmm. The brain. It only takes a tiny abnormality and the whole applecart is upset, eh?

 

[xild]

There could be something to this notion. Some person there could have "primed" you for this experience at some point, and caused you to forget the "priming" experience.

The whole thing sounds cult-like in flavor, and there is really no telling what might have been going on, what people's motives were, but self-styled teachers and gurus are often just out for power and influence over other people. That being the case, it is possible there was a post-hypnotic suggestion planted at some point before this session.

That is just one possibility.

In general, though, you still seem not to realize that almost all hallucinations are so real-appearing that you can't distinguish them from reality. They don't look "unreal" somehow. You can't count on something like that to tip you off. Content is the main thing that might suggest an experience is an hallucination.

I had a full blown hallucination, once, during sleep paralysis, and, at the time, the thought I might be hallucinating didn't even enter my head. It was "obviously" real. What tipped me off was the fact that these two guys who had invaded my room just suddenly evaporated, and I could move again, I was no longer paralyzed. While they were there, I could see them, hear them, and feel them (one was holding me down on the bed). There was no indication whatever they weren't real.

My point is that your mind can cook up super real hallucinations all on its own with no need of outside influence. The fact it was real looking doesn't mean some outside person must have cause it somehow.

I've had a similar experience only several things were going on at the same time. I was being sexed up by someone who was at that time, sitting at his house fantasizing about me, and from the corner of my room, where I had a very large clear quartz crystal lying I heard a conversation my friend was having with a coercive person, similar to the type of cult-leader. And, again, I was trying to help him decide if he really wanted to be in this guy's cult.

After I could move again, I realized what had just happened and I called first my sexual friend and he told me he was just fantasizing about me. I told him I had to go. I hung up and called my other friend and told him verbatim what I head him saying to someone I couldn't hear. He filled me in on the other side of the conversation he was having, and I was somehow hearing and that was that.

That gave me a lot to think about. I love those types of altered states. But I don't have them much anymore since I am taking a lot of medications, including pain meds, I believe.

Thanks for reminding me of this and other things. And how real they seem at the time. Perhaps in some alternate way, they have a realness all their own, in the brain, and on some plane of existence. Who knows. It's the experience that counts for something.

 

[xild]

Hey there
Really cool stuff I think. Had some experiences myself as (being in Africa) we're pretty close to ancestral interaction and studies. There are many similar experiences all ver the world I'm sure. This is how I see it:


I'm sure the attic might have been for impact but could be because less energy can 'escape'.


Yu're in a circle so as to 'focus' your energies to a centre point, allowing more energies to interact - like the smoke on a laser beam. One or a few peple need to just have the ability to extend more brain energy so as to 'channel' or focus the group's combined energy.


It's natural for forms to be produces when these energies interact. It's also natural for us as humans to categorise or name that form based on our experiences, like 'cloud-watching'. We interpret what we see in the best way we can, to justify the experience. Sometimes things just are.


The feeling of negative energy could be due to you not having focused your energy output which creates a 'void' in the energy circle, allowing the form to appear to be looking at you or rising toward you - kind of like opening a door letting out smoke from a room. It's a natural gap for energy to take to allow it to continue moving. Energy in its natural state is moving and not contained. Consider human's intention to harness natural energy - this is incredibly challenging.


He's probably unsure how to verbalise his experience, but that's just it - it's HIS experience, not yours.

I think I see what you're getting at. Because I was the only one not focusing my energy in sync with the others; and perhaps because I had been given a hypnotic suggestion previously, the energy formed in the room used me as a focal point from which to move, or escape from the focused "circle," or container.

Essentially I ruined the gig, and the leader ended the session, feeling the energy slipping away from where he was trying to focus it?

 

[kirkmcloren]

Dreaming is a natural state. When you are awake it is normally suppressed. Certain drugs can overcome the suppresion mechanism. It sounds like it may be possible electrically as well.

It is a useful thing. To communicate to the "executive" portion of the mind that much insight in a short time requires symbols. The symbol is your own -- you are the dream and the dreamer. Symbol books can give possible interpretations but the symbol is in the end your gestalt.

I am of the opinion we actually hallucinate all the time. I believe we have an alloted time period to identify and catalog what we are sensing and at the end of that time the mind presents the best fit or guess. This is a bit different than the subconscious presenting a dream symbol but I want to stress perception is a work in progress -- all the time. It is very data dependent. In dim light there is less data and thus more error in the fit of the data. The interesting bit is we "see" what we have decided it is.

A fun example of this is to tell a group you are camping with (at sunset) that an elephant has escaped the local zoo and authorities think it may be in the area. You may be surprised how many people think they see it in the brush/forest.

I wouldn't stress myself out over this. Hallucinations, like the hypnotic state, are natural. Use them for the insight they contain.

All the best
Kirk

 

[zoobyshoe]

So brain lesions, or brain abnormalities of any kind? can predispose one to hallucinations.

Not of any kind. I think an MS lesion could but because of it's placement, not because it's MS. My brother in law has MS and it only seems to affect his hands and feet.

It only takes a tiny abnormality and the whole applecart is upset, eh?

Yeah, it wouldn't have to be big, just in the wrong place. Just speculating here: it could be placed in a way that caused signals from who knows where to be routed to the parts of your brain where visual and auditory signals are decoded. These places would then be receiving odd signals that they would do their best to make some kind of sense out of. Off the top of my head, one location where something like this might happen is in the temporal lobe - parietal lobe junction.

I know a huge amount about seizures, but very little about MS, so I hesitate to do much guessing like this. Do you participate in any MS forums on the web? I would imagine if you did, you'd be able to get tons of info from other people who have it. One thing I know about MS is that symptoms vary widely from one individual to the next. However, it is always a possibility you'd find someone with symptoms similar to yours.

 

[xild]

Interesting and helpful replies by all. A lot of people inthe MS community ahve similar auditory illusions and I always told them not to call them hallucinations. To anyone.

they are called auditory illusions and they are not uncommon. I do have temporal and parietal lobe lesions--I'm not sure--but one is near a region, but not in it---It's all hard for me to figure out. I do have coginitve problems. I have sometimes instantaneous short term memory lose, like in seconds I forget what I was about to do...and trouble finding words on the tip of my tongue, etc. But my brain is not riddled with lesions. I do have one in my brain stem... It is in my spinal cord too, so affect my hands, back and neck. from C4 down, basically, I'm in big time neurological pain. fun disease and I've heard it's worse for men. I hope not tho. Of all the men I know who have it only one is doing poorly. the others are doing remarkably well, against the odds. Give your bro my regards.

And thank you.

Thank you all. We've proably discussed this into the ground by now but if anyone has anything to ask, please do so. ;)

 

[Overdose]

Hi Xild, i highly recommend you read this http://www.firedocs.com/bewilderness/contents.cfm
there's quite a few chapters to get through but i think its well worth the read, this women's experiences seem to be pretty similar to yours. Only she seems to have these waking dream/hightened consciousness episodes on a daily basis at a level of intensity that I've never come across. She questions the nature of her mind states incredibley thoroughly, and comes to some interesting conclusions : P

 

[xild]

Thanks overdose. I'll check it out.

 

[xild]

She turns out to be an excellent resource for me; pretty amused I found her on a debunking site; but quite a lead, thanks again!

 

[Rejjeye]

greetings xild,

I too went to StarCrest Academy in Hot Springs, Arkansas back in the summer of 87 and took the crystal energetics class from Randall and Vicki Baer. I didn't see what you did xild, but I do recall more of the story than you have told.

First, the attic was in the shape of a pyramid. The roof was clad in copper. The house sat over a spring that ran through a quartz deposit. The caretaker was named Melissa tho I have forgotten her last name. The module that you described was called the merkabah attraction module and as I recall, was only visited for a short period because it was far too powerful for long exposures. We did however place our personal crystals nearby overnight for "activation". And yes... it was powerful.

Randall's freak out happened the next year because my wife and I had supported their work through the winter and had attended their lecture series the following spring. It was then that we met * Foxx... you say Charley, I'm not sure. But he was sure a sharp dresser, dressed in white and reminded me a lot of an old style revival preacher. Lotta teeth.

Just before that "tour" had begun, Randall had had this vision during meditation and then he "set aside his marriage" to further his spiritual quest. Personally, I think he was spending too much time meditating and not enough time in the real world.

We were shocked when he cast it all aside, sold everything. I would have loved that huge MacEarl of his but he sold it before I could make a bid. The house went to a former student, and all of his crystals and tools were sold and he then became anti-new age saying that Jesus didn't use crystals therefore he wouldn't either. He began some church and asked those that had been supporting him to continue to do so.

I wrote him and said that, I was sure that, his plea for assistance was merely a test to see which of his followers were following his ego and which were truly committed to the cause. And I also reminded him that Jesus did not drive a Mercedes and wondered if he was going to walk everywhere he was going.

Funny thing... I never heard from him again. It was a few months later that I learned that he had died in a single car accident after driving off the road.

I have no idea what it was you saw, but I do know that he spoke of comunicating with aliens.

The Messiah Comes. Welcome

 

[PIT2]

Xild, the thing u saw, did it look something like these:

http://img219.exs.cx/img219/8206/alien9ci.jpg

http://img219.exs.cx/img219/4003/alien24bf.jpg

Both are images from a person who claims to have all kinds of beings around him. A TV camera crew went to his house to see if he was a hoaxer. They took these pics:

http://img226.exs.cx/img226/4624/ufo04ne30pc.gif

 

[Rejjeye]

Now it seems to me, that those that claim to channel this ascended being or that, are during their sessions, possessed by that entity. Michael, Seth, Ramtha, Lazaris, and as he would say, et cetera. If you have seen any of these entities being channeled then you have seen the change come over the host.

Is that possession? Most definitely. Was Randall possessed by bad aliens? I do not know.

 

[benzun_1999]

wat i would say is that evil really exis and wat u saw is evil wheater ur sceptic or a rationalist u have to accept this fact. if good exists can't evil exist. i would just like to tell you about something i have heard.

it so happened that one lady who used to contact with spirits through various forms was haunted by an unknow spirit. at her house knifes and sharp objects were thrown at her. she got frightened and decided to do something about it she visited a preacher near by who on hearing this decided to visit her home. the preacher decided to use the same meadium she used to communicate with the spirit. he asked the spirit just one question "who are u?" and the reply which frightened the lady was "devil'. the preacher adviced the lady to destroy all the things she used to communicate. this ended the spirit in her hose and she turned to the bible.

one thing is for sure if u try those spirit communication or any such practices u might end up dead.

 

[Rejjeye]

one thing is for sure if u try those spirit communication or any such practices u might end up dead.

uhhh, benzun? Everybody winds up dead. Nobody is getting out of here alive. And excuse me, but isn't praying to Jesus the same thing as, spirit communication? If not, why not?

 

[kirkmcloren]

Don't fear spirits

Read "Spirit Releasement Therapy" by William J. Baldwin. I give a caveat though, I think "spirits" are just a paradigm to make sense of the subconscious. Baldwin does it literally. I think it can be done differently.

I still think a gestalt hypno-regression analysis of the experience would produce unexpected results/insights. I have seen some amazing things done with gestalt dialogue. "Exorcisms" if you want to call it that. You could also call it psycho synthesis.

Kirk

 

[kdinser]

When I was about 17, I was riding in a car with my cousin and a friend. We were going down a road that the 3 of us had driven down hundreds of times before and thousands of times since. All of a sudden, I just felt something and had what can only be decribed as a vison. I had this classic image of hell. Broken ground everywhere, lakes of fire, giant devil looking down. When I came out of it, my cousin was pulling over and said, did any of you just feel that? really creepy.

 

[kirkmcloren]

When I came out of it, my cousin was pulling over and said, did any of you just feel that? really creepy.

I get the impression that your cousin only got a sensation, not the vision. Since the task of driving was at hand that is not surprising.

Shared "hallucinations" are an interesting phenomena. I am more biased toward telepathy as the cause in those instances. Telepathic contact is in the here and now. Much more understandable to me.

I am less inclined to attribute to contact from other realms.