Needing Sincere Honesty from the men on Here

[Kevin9679]

Dave. I love women. I love being turned on. Hell, if I had sex with every woman I was turned on by, I would have slept with over a hundred women by now. If I had sex with every woman who I was turned on by, who was also insanely turned on around me, I would have slept with at least a dozen women by now.

But that's not the case, my man. :)

Being jealous doesn't mean that he's a real man. And if she was a sl*t, then heck even if she didn't hang with any of her normal guy friends, a guy would pick her up off the street and they would have sex anyway. Okay?

Just yesterday there was a French couple here in NYC for vacation. They were riding the train with me. The guy was very masculine-looking, too. The woman was simply gorgeous. I made eye-contact with the woman from about 20 feet away. A few minutes later, the couple moved to seats closer to me, and I swear to god, the woman was staring at my member with her mouth wide open. Without blinking, for at least 20 seconds. I had my legs open and was turned on. The guy glared at me several times, and I just looked at him as if saying, "What, you expect me to close my legs just for you?" The girl finally looked away, and started caressing her man's inner thigh while talking to him. She didn't look at me again.

My point wasn't to brag, but to note that we can get turned on all the time. It doesn't mean that we're going to cheat. So Dave, if the opener's boyfriend was confident in her, then he should expect that she doesn't cheat. And I still say that his jealousy comes from the fact that if he hangs out with girls, he would be less likely to contain his urges.

 

[DanP]

The problem is simple, and IMO this is not an issue of trust.

The issue is: he doesn't like what you do.
Solution: you either accept and make some changes, either leave him.

Whatever works.

 

[TR1KK1]

I don't know if it's as simple as that... I can agree with parts of both sides, it's hard to weigh out the facts, however.

I do believe it's an issue of trust, he admits that he doesn't trust me, but will learn to as I prove that he can trust me. I can also understand how me having guy friends could be emasculating for him.

He should be able to trust me 100%, the lines have been laid out with my guy friends, I have told them that there is not one bit of a chance that them and I would ever share anything more than platonic friendship (zero chance of ever having a quick hook-up or a romantic relationship).

He seems to think that I'm some sort of attention monger, which is why I have more guy friends, rather than due to generally having more similar interests with guys than with females.

I get checked out on the street and when I'm shopping, or things like that, it's flattering, but that's it. It doesn't give me the faintest idea to cheat or leave my man, I don't sit there fantasizing about other men, if anything, it makes me feel sexier which, believe me, pays off for my boyfriend when I see him again.

When guy friends have been open about checking me out, or it seems as though they are lightly flirting, or hinting that they want "more" of a relationship it makes me very uncomfortable, and since that is not at all what I am interested in, I quit hanging around them.

Alas, any time we get talking about the subject, because it's so touchy for me, we don't get much accomplished other than becoming very upset. maybe we need to go see a counselor/ therapist or something to act as a mediator for us.

 

[Evo]

Do any of your male friends have girlfriends?

I can understand why your boyfriend might feel jealous at first, but this is something that he should accept as non-threatening after a short while, if the interactions between you and your male friends appears to be what you say (which I have no reason to doubt). I have always had more male than female friends and I guarantee you that I NEVER had sexual feeling or thoughts for any of them. Not that there weren't men I was friendly with that I was attracted to, but those went into the "possibility" bucket, not the friend bucket, they were never close *friends*.

How long have you and your boyfriend been dating?

 

[Kevin9679]

When guy friends have been open about checking me out, or it seems as though they are lightly flirting, or hinting that they want "more" of a relationship it makes me very uncomfortable, and since that is not at all what I am interested in, I quit hanging around them.

You should bring that up the next time your boyfriend talks about this. You used much softer and almost euphemistic vocabulary, but what this sounds like to me is, "If a guy turns me on, or if I think I might have sex with him one day, then I won't hang out with him." That's fair, and honest.

 

[TR1KK1]

We started dating in January of 2008, I believe it was. We both hadn't had a "real" relationship before which we were serious about. We broke up for about 8 months last year because we both needed time apart.

I felt that I needed to take time to really get to know myself, and to discover who I wanted to become as a person and make a plan on how to achieve that. I felt the best way to do that was without the distraction of our relationship because it had become very 'toxic". I wanted to be comfortable with myself before involving anyone else in my life.

I really felt that when we started seeing each other again things were going great and like we had re-entered the relationship both more mature, and ready to make comfortable compromises with each other to make it work without resorting to controlling each other.

But now, I am slightly confused as to if my thinking is ridiculous, or if his is, and what to do.

I feel like I should sit down with all my closest guy friends who I refused to get rid of and ask exactly what their intentions are. Aside from being completely awkward, I don't know if they'd tell me the truth if they were tryin' to covertly form a sexual relationship with me.

 

[DanP]

I do believe it's an issue of trust, he admits that he doesn't trust me, but will learn to as I prove that he can trust me. I can also understand how me having guy friends could be emasculating for him.

Look, life is too short for cheap philosophy regarding trust in relationships. Women like to play with big words, like ... "trust" ... us man like or dislike facts/situations/.

The take home message for you is that he doesn't like what you do. There just aren't many solutions out of this. You will have to either negotiate a position which is acceptable for both of you or forfeit the relation.

 

[DanP]

Do any of your male friends have girlfriends?

I can understand why your boyfriend might feel jealous at first, but this is something that he should accept as non-threatening after a short while,

We can't decide what the man in question should accept or not. You may very well hate non-threatening situations as well. Like I said, it's not about trust or threatening events.
Is about what you like or dislike, about what you expect from your partner. It doesn't worth
to be stuck in a relation which doesn't feel right, even if it's a honest to god relation.

 

[TR1KK1]

Do any of your male friends have girlfriends?

Yea, they go through relationships, and we talk about them with each other. Any time I'm with any of my friends I always gush about my boyfriend because I really do love him. All my guy friends are completely aware of my strong love for my man, and because they know the type of person I am (because we've been friends for such a long while) they are happy for me, they notice that I glow when I talk about him, they know he is the only man I am interested in at all.

I just HAVE to believe that my friends are true friends if they stick around through having to listen to me go into one of my "love rants", and when I'm bummed out about something in the relationship they're always good for comforting me, and saying everything will work out if I really want it to, and work through it.

If they sat there when I was upset and tried to talk me into leaving him and became "overly comforting", as in trying to embrace me, or it seemed like they were trying to showcase how '"they'd never make me feel like that", I would again be suspicious of ulterior motives, and steer clear of them.

 

[DanP]

All my guy friends are completely aware of my strong love for my man, and because they know the type of person I am (because we've been friends for such a long while) they are happy for me, they notice that I glow when I talk about him, they know he is the only man I am interested in at all.

Obviously, I can't talk about your friends since I don't know them.

But you should know that the fact that a women is in a relationship or currently loving another man is not a very strong deterrent for a man determined to have her. A partner can be changed :P Most of us don't care about your boyfriend or husband. We only care about your position. So yeah, if one of your friends want to get into your pants, he won't care about your love for your boyfriend. he'll just play his cards as well as he can.

 

[TR1KK1]

You will have to either negotiate a position which is acceptable for both of you or forfeit the relation.

The solution we decided on was that I wouldn't be going out and making new guy friends, I wouldn't hang out with certain friends that he didn't feel comfortable with, I wouldn't go out and party with these guys and stay at their places. I feel these are reasonable compromises, and one minute he thinks that will work, but the next we wants me to just stop talking to my friends all together.

He tells me to just go out and make more girl friends as if it's really that simple to find girls with the same interests as me in our area. I love gaming, star trek, anime, in October one of my friends and I want to co to comiccon. Try living in rural Manitoba, Canada and finding friends, let alone GIRL friends that enjoy those things. My boyfriend and I have lots of similar interests like, camping, science, movies, sex, etc. but he doesn't really have any "geek" in him.

I do have some girl friend's, but how many people do I really need to talk about make-up and shoes with? They're also still in party-mode, and I've just lost interest in that world.

 

[DanP]

The solution we decided on was that I wouldn't be going out and making new guy friends, I wouldn't hang out with certain friends that he didn't feel comfortable with, I wouldn't go out and party with these guys and stay at their places. I feel these are reasonable compromises, and one minute he thinks that will work, but the next we wants me to just stop talking to my friends all together.

Whatever works. But be careful not to give too much from yourself. If it doesn't work for you, don't linger too much in it , it'll only get worst. Not all relationships you have will work, and in this case my opinion is that the best thing you ca do is to bail out early. good service to both of you. If you don't like his views of life, bail.

 

[TR1KK1]

So yeah, if one of your friends want to get into your pants, he won't care about your love for your boyfriend. he'll just play his cards as well as he can.

I do understand that possibility, I just figured if they did want me they would attempt to sabotage the relationship when it appeared to be at a weak point, rather than encourage that a solution to my issues can be found.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The solution we decided on was that I wouldn't be going out and making new guy friends, I wouldn't hang out with certain friends that he didn't feel comfortable with, I wouldn't go out and party with these guys and stay at their places. I feel these are reasonable compromises, and one minute he thinks that will work, but the next we wants me to just stop talking to my friends all together.

He tells me to just go out and make more girl friends as if it's really that simple to find girls with the same interests as me in our area. I love gaming, star trek, anime, in October one of my friends and I want to co to comiccon. Try living in rural Manitoba, Canada and finding friends, let alone GIRL friends that enjoy those things. My boyfriend and I have lots of similar interests like, camping, science, movies, sex, etc. but he doesn't really have any "geek" in him.

I do have some girl friend's, but how many people do I really need to talk about make-up and shoes with? They're also still in party-mode, and I've just lost interest in that world.

If he does not trust you then there is a problem and you need to figure out what it is and fix it. Avoiding those situations that he says make him feel as though he can not trust you is not going to fix anything. Its like the old joke about going to the doctor and telling him that it hurts to move your arm in such a way and so he says "well then just don't move it that way". Even if you suddenly go crazy and start wearing dresses, getting your hair and nails done, reading cosmo, and going shopping with the girls his trust issues will still be there and may well manifest in some other fashion. In the mean time his unreasonable lack of trust is hurting both of you and your relationship. You need to figure out what is really going on in his head. After two years he ought to be able to trust you. You said that he says you need to prove to him he can trust you? That is utter crap. What have you done to deserve not being trusted? The issue is with him. He needs to fix it. You can not make him trust you.

I do understand that possibility, I just figured if they did want me they would attempt to sabotage the relationship when it appeared to be at a weak point, rather than encourage that a solution to my issues can be found.

Why would someone who cares about you want to see you unhappy? Just because a guy may have an interest in you does not mean all he is interested in is having sex with you and will do what ever he needs to in order to accomplish that. It is quite possible you have male friends who like you that simply figure that you are not interested and so just stayed your friend. You said yourself that you automatically avoid any guy friend who shows an interest in you. If they like you and know your habits then they would be well advised to keep their feelings to themselves if they have any desire to have you as a part of their life yes?

When my high school crush would tell me about her relationship issues I would be careful what I said feeling as though my advise might be biased.

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh gawd, one of those girls that goes on and on about their boyfriend .

 

[Evo]

He tells me to just go out and make more girl friends as if it's really that simple to find girls with the same interests as me in our area. I love gaming, star trek, anime, in October one of my friends and I want to co to comiccon. Try living in rural Manitoba, Canada and finding friends, let alone GIRL friends that enjoy those things. My boyfriend and I have lots of similar interests like, camping, science, movies, sex, etc. but he doesn't really have any "geek" in him.

I do have some girl friend's, but how many people do I really need to talk about make-up and shoes with? They're also still in party-mode, and I've just lost interest in that world.

You can tell him that it was my girl friends that talked me into divorcing my first husband. They convinced me that he wasn't good enough for me. Even though he was kind, devoted, monogamous, built me everything I needed for all of my gardening interests, supported me in everything I did. He was my best friend.

Girlfriends can be much more dangerous to a relationship than male friends.

 

[DaveC426913]

You can tell him that it was my girl friends that talked me into divorcing my first husband. They convinced me that he wasn't good enough for me. Even though he was kind, devoted, monogamous, built me everything I needed for all of my gardening interests, supported me in everything I did. He was my best friend.

Girlfriends can be much more dangerous to a relationship than male friends.

Heh. Never thought of it that way.

So if I might ask, Evo, how did they manage to convince you? It almost sounds like you almost regret it.

 

[DanP]

You can tell him that it was my girl friends that talked me into divorcing my first husband. They convinced me that he wasn't good enough for me. Even though he was kind, devoted, monogamous, built me everything I needed for all of my gardening interests, supported me in everything I did. He was my best friend.

Girlfriends can be much more dangerous to a relationship than male friends.

It's unlikely they could have persuaded you unless you had doubts yourself. Anyway, my attitude towards ppl who try to badmouth the person I am involved with is "**** off". I got into the habit of defending my partner . After all I choose her. Then the minimum In could do is stick for her in front of all 3rd parties.

 

[DaveC426913]

It's unlikely they could have persuaded you unless you had doubts yourself.

Yes, well, it does seem that TR1KK1 is having some doubts. (She's come to a Physics Forum for relationship advice. One might even say desparate... )

 

[jackmell]

Yes, well, it does seem that TR1KK1 is having some doubts. (She's come to a Physics Forum for relationship advice. One might even say desparate... )

What's wrong with us? The best advice I can give is get some things straight with a guy at the get-go: "not even three strikes, and batter's outta' there you hear me boy?" and stick to it. But no, most women don't do that. They allow their guy to stand at home plate swinging at balls all day long. Need to say, "look, you're out. I'm ready to pitch to someone else". Always be on the look out for red-flags and act on them: just one and he's gone. Not easy to do that though is it ladies. So easy to give him another chance isn't it. Your heart gets in the way of common sense . . . just like a woman.

 

[cronxeh]

What's wrong with us? The best advice I can give is get some things straight with a guy at the get-go: "not even three strikes, and batter's outta' there you hear me boy?" and stick to it. But no, most women don't do that. They allow their guy to stand at home plate swinging at balls all day long. Need to say, "look, you're out. I'm ready to pitch to someone else". Always be on the look out for red-flags and act on them: just one and he's gone. Not easy to do that though is it ladies. So easy to give him another chance isn't it. Your heart gets in the way of common sense . . . just like a woman.

Men, we found him! He is the one responsible for all our problems

 

[DaveC426913]

Always be on the look out for red-flags and act on them: just one and he's gone. Not easy to do that though is it ladies. So easy to give him another chance isn't it. Your heart gets in the way of common sense . . . just like a woman.

You seem to think of relationships as liabilities to be cut loose at the first opportunity. Does it occur to you that - setting the stated issue aside for the moment - she really does like (love) the guy, and is otherwise very happy? Where is the common sense in her giving up something that otherwise makes her happy?


Or you were using reverse psychology... In which case, I walked right into it.

 

[jackmell]

You seem to think of relationships as liabilities to be cut loose at the first opportunity. Does it occur to you that - setting the stated issue aside for the moment - she really does like (love) the guy, and is otherwise very happy? Where is the common sense in her giving up something that otherwise makes her happy?


Or you were using reverse psychology... In which case, I walked right into it.

No reverse anything, just mostly dad-talk about relationships in general. Maybe though that's off-topic although if anything he does can be construed as a strike, not even close, wild-swing, or something like that, then I think a girl should add it to the count and not give him more then well three I guess since two is perhaps a bit unfair but it depends how far the bat was from the ball when he swung.

 

[cronxeh]

No reverse anything, just mostly dad-talk about relationships in general. Maybe though that's off-topic although if anything he does can be construed as a strike, not even close, wild-swing, or something like that, then I think a girl should add it to the count and not give him more then well three I guess since two is perhaps a bit unfair but it depends how far the bat was from the ball when he swung.

You do realize that if they break up and she starts dating me and did that to me I'd dump her like third period French? Relationships are about compromise, and sometimes you need a good argument that needs to be resolved and settled to strengthen it. In the long run the arguments become less frequent and the bond should grow stronger.

I still think her boyfriend is righteously jealous here. Her friends of 3-11 years are not completely altruistic and platonic in their intentions. I don't even need to know them to conclude this - its all stochastically obvious

*whistles to self* As I walk through the shadow of the valley of white noise, I shall fear no patterns, for Fourier is with me, thy transform is 1, and e^pi*i + 2 is 1.

 

[Evo]

What's wrong with us? The best advice I can give is get some things straight with a guy at the get-go: "not even three strikes, and batter's outta' there you hear me boy?" and stick to it. But no, most women don't do that. They allow their guy to stand at home plate swinging at balls all day long. Need to say, "look, you're out. I'm ready to pitch to someone else". Always be on the look out for red-flags and act on them: just one and he's gone. Not easy to do that though is it ladies. So easy to give him another chance isn't it. Your heart gets in the way of common sense . . . just like a woman.

I've been cheated on before and they got no second chance. One strike and they're out.

 

[GeorginaS]

What's wrong with us? The best advice I can give is get some things straight with a guy at the get-go: "not even three strikes, and batter's outta' there you hear me boy?" and stick to it. But no, most women don't do that. They allow their guy to stand at home plate swinging at balls all day long. Need to say, "look, you're out. I'm ready to pitch to someone else". Always be on the look out for red-flags and act on them: just one and he's gone. Not easy to do that though is it ladies. So easy to give him another chance isn't it. Your heart gets in the way of common sense . . . just like a woman.

Finally. The voice of sanity chimed in.

 

[DaveC426913]

I've been cheated on before and they got no second chance. One strike and they're out.

True, yes. But...

We weren't talking about cheating as strikes; jackmell was claiming to be on the lookout for any red flags, and each counts as a strike:


At least, that's what I read. Frankly, jackmell was very vague about it, using all manner of metaphors and euphamisms, but never actually saying what constitues a red flag or strike:

What's wrong with us? The best advice I can give is get some things straight with a guy at the get-go: "not even three strikes, and batter's outta' there you hear me boy?" and stick to it. But no, most women don't do that. They allow their guy to stand at home plate swinging at balls all day long. Need to say, "look, you're out. I'm ready to pitch to someone else". Always be on the look out for red-flags and act on them: just one and he's gone. Not easy to do that though is it ladies. So easy to give him another chance isn't it. Your heart gets in the way of common sense . . . just like a woman.

So I say again:

jackmell seems to think of relationships as liabilities to be cut loose at the first opportunity. It doesn't seem to occur to him that - setting the stated issue aside for the moment - she really does like (love) the guy, and is otherwise very happy.

 

[jackmell]

To me, strikes and red-flags are different.

Red-flags means something that is serious enough to be a deal-breaker like cheating, drinking too much, saying mean things, doing mean things, being lazy and not working, drugs, being possessive, suspicious, violent, inviting a third person in the relationship, lots of other things.

Strikes though, are just things a guys does that a girl doesn't like. Whatever it is it may or may not be enough to be significant but it's in general a disappointment to her. He may say something that hurts her feelings, he may be unreliable, may not sufficiently defend her when others are criticizing her, not want to do enough things or go places she likes, not woo her enough, not romance her enough, others things not bad enough to call it quits individually, but combined could do him in.

One red-flag, that's it. Strikes? Two, three? Depending on the girl, and if she's desperate, she'll usually forgive him for minor sins and take him back even with many strikes. Some girls never call their guy out even when he does serious wrong. Daddys warn your little girls: don't go easy on guys.

Oh yeah, I think relationships can be liabilities and sometimes are quite harmful and destructive: better to be alone than in an unhealthy one.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Strikes though, are just things a guys does that a girl doesn't like. Whatever it is it may or may not be enough to be significant but it's in general a disappointment to her. He may say something that hurts her feelings, he may be unreliable, may not sufficiently defend her when others are criticizing her, not want to do enough things or go places she likes, not woo her enough, not romance her enough, others things not bad enough to call it quits individually, but combined could do him in.

Wow... you know I do not think I have ever been in a relationship where my partner wasn't able to come up with some reason to be upset with me on a regular basis even if that meant dreaming it up out of thin air.

 

[TR1KK1]

I know if I put a move on my friends they would go for it. I'm an attractive woman, if it were me, or some chick at a party asking them to "go somewhere" to get it on, of course they'd say yes. I'm not an idiot.

Actually, I'm going to have to retract that statement as I have some guy friends that I'm sure would be "weirded out" by the thought, and the others would say "no" because they have significant others.

Mind you, that is a theory, and possibly wishful thinking as I am still very reluctant to believe that none of my guy friends, which are people I have grown to trust, shared hardships and good times with, and care for deeply, value our friendship in the same manner as I do.

 

[DaveC426913]

... I am still very reluctant to believe that none of my guy friends, which are people I have grown to trust, shared hardships and good times with, and care for deeply, value our friendship in the same manner as I do.

Just for the record, and I think I speak for most men, a valuable friendship with someone one cares for deeply ... does not preclude a good roll in the hay...

 

[Pengwuino]

So someone said relationships are all about compromise. Does he ever or would he cut out people from his life simply because you told him to? Good relationships can have 1 or 2 unfair compromises in their existence for the most part, but only when pretty much every other compromise is fair. So if he is the type of person who will sacrifice major things such as that just for you for no rational reason, then maybe this can be that 1 unfair compromise. Otherwise...

 

[TR1KK1]

Yes, well, it does seem that TR1KK1 is having some doubts. (She's come to a Physics Forum for relationship advice. One might even say desparate... )

Haha, well... I don't have really any friends who are more mature and rational than I am. I was hoping to receive unbiased opinions made by intelligent people to help me sort this all out (not that I can truly judge who is intelligent on a forum, but I do make a point to read your thoughts and ideas on the other forums).

I seem to either be overly emotional when trying to come to solution (those emotions generally being frustration and anger), or so completely emotionally detached that the problem goes by the way-side.

I realize this is an issue that I do need to learn to deal with. After arguing so much about something him and I clearly disagree on for any extended period of time (this general topic has be a touchy subject from the day we started dating) I am emotionally fatigued.

We've made compromises about how he can feel comfortable in the relationship, but I am left disappointed in his thinking, but maybe he is correct...

 

[turbo]

We've made compromises about how he can feel comfortable in the relationship, but I am left disappointed in his thinking, but maybe he is correct...

At some point, you will feel pretty constrained, I'm afraid. If you cannot have or associate with any male friends outside of his immediate supervision, you're probably not going to be happy, and he is STILL probably going to be distrustful. Can you see a future in that kind of situation? It's your call.

 

[DanP]

Again it's simple: negotiate all to a position where you feel comfortable, or forfeit. IMO centering a relationship on idealistic ideals like trust, respect and other big things is wrong anyway. It;s not like they are void of any value, but they are much more important when the relationship is going South then when all is well as and the partnership works great for both naturally.

We've made compromises about how he can feel comfortable in the relationship, but I am left disappointed in his thinking, but maybe he is correct...

It;s hard to tell because we don't have a clear picture what is happening there, and we also miss his point of view on all this.

But some issues are really mundane. Do you spend too much time with your friends and too little with him ? Do you take your friendships so far that you more or less regularly spend nights at your male friends places ? Do you refuse him time which you prefere to spend with your friends. Do you keep him away from your friends ? Think at simple things like this.

In such cases probably I would leave you. And not because I would not trust you. It's because you don't deliver in the partnership.