- #36
jgens
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Since it doesn't look like anyone has posted this, here's a transcript of the speech: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/07/obama.school.speech.pdf
Hurkyl said:My primary agenda was to make people aware that the controversy was not about Obama speaking, but about the accompanying lesson plans. This was successful. (whether or not I actually helped)
Interesting. I hadn't seen this; I was going by the article in the opening post.jgens said:This CNN article suggests that some people are upset about the idea of Obama addressing the nation's children in general: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/obama.school.speech/index.html
Laking any evidence to support the contrary position, that is all one rightly can do here.Hurkyl said:Oh, so it's just a "They're wrong. Nyah nyah!" type post?
Yet, as jgens pointed out, there are people taking issue with both. Regardless, it would be helpful if you could explain the "why" here, which you seem unwilling to do.Hurkyl said:My primary agenda was to make people aware that the controversy was not about Obama speaking, but about the accompanying lesson plans. This was successful. (whether or not I actually helped)
That isn't Ivan's argument.Hurkyl said:My secondary agenda is to get Ivan to stop using argument forms that boil down to "It's okay because it's Obama" and the diversionary "hey look, the Bush administration was bad".
So, after all of these posts, I get to be the first one to comment on the (current) actual speech? OK.jgens said:Since it doesn't look like anyone has posted this, here's a transcript of the speech: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/07/obama.school.speech.pdf
Al68 said:the fact is that those concerned parents don't have much to worry about. It's pretty harmless.
Ivan Seeking said:In other words, all of the uproar was stupid.
Was it Limbaugh who said, "He is brainwashing kids like Hitler did"?
Edit: That was Mark Shannon, not Limbaugh.
http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20767220/detail.html"
Posted: 11:15 pm EDT September 6, 2009
OSCEOLA COUNTY, Fla. -- Children in Osceola County will be able to watch President Barack Obama's address after all.
An earlier statement from the Osceola County school district indicated it did not have the bandwidth to show the online version to all students, a district official said.
Recent media reports stating the district had banned the speech were incorrect, a district spokeswoman told WFTV.
Erm... so the lesson is we should never be wary of government, just in case it turns out it's all okay?Ivan Seeking said:In other words, all of the uproar was stupid.
Hurkyl said:Erm... so the lesson is we should never be wary of government, just in case it turns out it's all okay?
turbo-1 said:In fact the "concerned" (brainwashed) parents had nothing to worry about. As expected, it will be an inspirational speech about the value of education, urging students to take responibility for their educational outcomes. All the "no child left behind" "voucher" "charter school" gimmicks do nothing if the students are not motivated to take advantage of our educational system. That's a pretty important message.
The right-wing nuts that demonize Obama and criticize him without any clue about his intentions are troublemakers who want our president to fail, and want to convince weak-minded voters that in fact he has already failed. Will the "liberal" media cover the back-story and expose the liars for what they are? Don't hold your breath. The "liberal" media is a fiction made up to describe any organization that is to the left of Atilla the Hun, and they will not cover the lies and duplicity of the right for fear of being attacked. The "liberal" media are in fact owned by large corporations whose administrators often have more in common with the neo-cons than with any liberal or progressive group.
The liberal media is a fiction? Are you serious? Are you aware that 90 percent of journalists considered themselves democratic?(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485)The "liberal" media are in fact owned by large corporations whose administrators often have more in common with the neo-cons than with any liberal or progressive group.
Have you been watching MSNBC lately ?; They don't have any news reporters on their channel, just a bunch of leftist pundits who try to portray one political viewpoint in each of their showsl...MSNBC.com identified 143 journalists who made political contributions from 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaign, according to the public records of the Federal Election Commission. Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left: 125 journalists gave to Democrats and liberal causes. Only 16 gave to Republicans. Two gave to both parties ...
And why would he? Whether true or false, it's a completely inappropriate topic for this speech.noblegas said:Yep same old same old. Obama will probably give a similar speech that other presidents have given to students in the past;Stay in school,be a good citizen, ... in other words, never acknowledge why public school is a complete disaster right now ...
Hurkyl said:And why would he? It would be a completely inappropriate topic for this address.
Hurkyl said:If you want to argue that no education at all is better than being educated in the current system, then go start a thread on the topic, and stop derailing this one.
Surely you can come up with a better plan than that? I contend should always be wary of government, but it would be nice if we could avoid getting riled up over completely unfounded concerns. That would save us a lot of hassle, our chasing imaginary WMD over in Iraq being one notable example.Hurkyl said:Erm... so the lesson is we should never be wary of government, just in case it turns out it's all okay?
noblegas said:The liberal media is a fiction? Are you serious? Are you aware that 90 percent of journalists considered themselves democratic?(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485) Have you been watching MSNBC lately ?; They don't have any news reporters on their channel, just a bunch of leftist pundits who try to portray one political viewpoint in each of their showsl
Wax said:Yes, the liberal media is fiction. Most news channels will show both view points and not bash on the president because they don't believe in his policies. The only news station that does that is Fox News. They are clearly out to get Obama at any costs, even if he does something right. I have yet to see any other news station promote Obama's police as strong as Fox News bashes him. Labeling most of the media Liberal for showing both view points without promoting an agenda is propaganda. It's fear mongering created entirely by Fox News.
noblegas said:I did not admit that Fox news was not bias; The bias of MSNBC is just not acknowledge that much as Fox news; Janeane Garofalo was on Keith olbermann show and she labeled all the protesters at the tea rally that took place in April-May as "stupid rednecks who hate that a black man is president" and Keith Olbermann did not call her out for her remark ; One of the news anchors on msnbc did something sleazy and tried to portrayed that black guy who carried the gun at the healthcare rally as an angry white racist by not showing all of his body (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/19/unreal-msnbc-edits-clip-of-man-with-gun-at-obama-rally-to-support-racism-narrative/); Both msnbc and Fox news are politically slanted on opposites sides of the political spectrum; At least cnn makes an effort to try be present both political viewpoints; They made a bad move by firing paula zahn though ;
Instead of derailing this thread, you should start a new thread.noblegas said:... Instead of lecturing the kids ...
Are they really unfounded? We have direct empirical evidence of at least one person arguing tooth-and-nail that Obama should push a political agenda with this speech.kyleb said:if we could avoid getting riled up over completely unfounded concerns.
Rather, they promote the myth that there is only two view points.Wax said:Most news channels will show both view points...
I can find you a bunch of people arguing tooth an nail that alien beings are plotting to enslave humanity. Are you going to get riled up over that?Hurkyl said:Are they really unfounded? We have direct empirical evidence of at least one person arguing tooth-and-nail that Obama should push a political agenda with this speech.
Neither should we allow such trash in this forum, though.kyleb said:I can find you a bunch of people arguing tooth an nail that alien beings are plotting to enslave humanity. Are you going to get riled up over that?
One way or another, every issue gets boiled down to a "yes" or a "no. There are two prominent parties in the US, therefore there are only two primary positions. However, don't take that to mean they don't discuss the various nuances of the positions.Rather, they promote the myth that there is only two view points.
So why is Hurkyl getting away with such an unstbstated argument here?russ_watters said:Neither should we allow such trash in this forum, though.
Yeah, I mean they offer limited range of "yes" and "no" perspectives, often with neither being well reasoned, and generally presented with bias towards one answer or the other.russ_watters said:One way or another, every issue gets boiled down to a "yes" or a "no. There are two prominent parties in the US, therefore there are only two primary positions. However, don't take that to mean they don't discuss the various nuances of the positions.
noblegas said:why give a speech if you aren't even going to address the problems with the school system?
Uh, you tried to flip over what I said. FAIL! Hurkyl's claim was clearly true and the example of trash (my label) that you gave parallels with the example of trash that he was arguing against.kyleb said:So why is Hurkyl getting away with such an unstbstated argument here?
Why, specifically? I've yet to see anyone willing to address that necessary precondition.mheslep said:1. Denounce the President's school speech.
Because that's what the Democrats did, oh so seriously, in 1991 when President GH Bush made a school speech.kyleb said:Why, specifically? I've yet to see anyone willing to address that necessary precondition.
The evasivness to demonstating any problem with the content of the speech or the accompany lesson plans had me figruing the whole fuss is nothing more than partizan knee-jerkery, but it is nice to finaly see someone come out and say it.mheslep said:Because that's what the Democrats did, oh so seriously, in 1991 when President GH Bush made a school speech.
I disagree, and am thankful our laws do too. As the article you linked notes, we have "restrictions on the use of appropriations for publicity and propaganda". and I contend that it is the duty of our government to investigate whenever there is any likelihood such restrictions have been violated.mheslep said:For my part, I am kidding about calling for anything from Congress and could care less about the Pres. making a speech to every kiddy in the US.
Beyond the article you presented, I only vaguely recall the situation with Bush Sr., being in my early teens and living just inside the Beltway at the time. That said, it doesn't seem like you are making a serious argument. Best I can tell anyway, you are presenting a superficial account of history to suggest Republicans should emulate the stupidity of Democrats. Is that the gist of your postion here?mheslep said:I'm serious though about pointing out the historical myopia.