Occupy Wall Street protest in New-York

[edward]

I'll let george Carlin explain it in very graphic language. Hide the children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yi6XV8yBFoU#!

 

[mheslep]

I had a girlfriend once who used to argue like that. "I'm not going to tell you what you did to make me mad; you wouldn't understand."

I'd say that is the theme (meme?) of the OWS movement so far.

 

[Evo]

85% of college grads are moving back home.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/14/pf/boomerang_kids_move_home/index.htmI could fill this page with what is wrong with the economy and yet there will be those who just don't get it as far as OWS goes. Or they just don't get it period.

Count me among those that don't get it. What do the ows expect? (I don't think they know) It seems they have a list of things they don't like. Ok...

 

[edward]

There are no specific all inclusive set of objectives as of now. We all know what many of the objectives will be.

There are almost as many grievances as there are protesters. "We're tired, we're mad, and we're standing up," protester Hero Vincent today told ABC News. He complains that the movement is "degraded" by the news media for not having a limited and well thought out set of goals. "Our constitution took a year to make," he says. " We've been here for three weeks, and we're supposed to have an agenda? That makes no sense."

Professor Yochai Benkler, co-director of Harvard University's Berkman Center for Internet and Society, calls Occupy Wall Street still very much a movement in the making. "One of the beautiful things about it," he says, "is that it is a movement defining itself as it 'becomes.'"

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/occupy-wall-street-declaration-york-protesters/story?id=14656653

 

[WhoWee]

Like I mentioned some people just don't get it. I hope you have a very secure job.

I provide job security and have had a very difficult past 3 years - it's never been more challenging to make a living in my 35 years experience.

Increases in utilities, fuel, minimum wage, HIPPA/MIPPA compliance, and new licensing requirements have driven costs up. My revenues dropped by approximately 65% at one point. Worse yet, Government mandated restrictions have cut future revenue streams by 50% in one major line of my business. Additionally, some of my clients have gone out of business because conventional business credit lines have disappeared. I even had a problem with a supplier that took my money and could not deliver as promised.

On top of problems with my own business - the line has been long of people showing up in need of help with their problems.

Given all of this - those aging hippies banging drums and college kids that have never tried to service a loan or make a payroll don't have a clue about the real world. IMO - all they want is to complain and get another handout. Again IMO - they're nothing but a group of whiny hipocrites waiting for someone to take care of them - and need to grow up.

 

[gravenewworld]

UNBELIEVABLE.

Wall Street is at it again. BofA just dumped $75 trillion in potentially toxic assets onto US tax payers:http://seekingalpha.com/article/301...atives-on-u-s-taxpayers-with-federal-approvalThis is exactly why we need more protests to reinstate Glass Steagall as fast as possible.

 

[WhoWee]

UNBELIEVABLE.

Wall Street is at it again. BofA just dumped $75 trillion in potentially toxic assets onto US tax payers:


http://seekingalpha.com/article/301...atives-on-u-s-taxpayers-with-federal-approval


We need more protests to reinstate Glass Steagall as fast as possible.

Read through this thread
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3578700&highlight=merrill#post3578700

start around post number 588

 

[turbo]

Please read this. GNW linked an informative article. It should be on the front pages of all newspapers in the next day or two. Unfortunately, such stories don't sell papers, so the story won't be in the papers. The subversion of our economy and the theft of our wealth happens quietly, behind the scenes, so people don't notice, or even have enough comprehension to give a damn.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/301...atives-on-u-s-taxpayers-with-federal-approval

 

[gravenewworld]

Please read this. GNW linked an informative article. It should be on the front pages of all newspapers in the next day or two. Unfortunately, such stories don't sell papers, so the story won't be in the papers. The subversion of our economy and the theft of our wealth happens quietly, behind the scenes, so people don't notice, or even have enough comprehension to give a damn.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/301...atives-on-u-s-taxpayers-with-federal-approval

Here's more from heavy weight Bill Black about it:

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/not-with-bang-but-whimper-bank-of.html

and here is the piece he recommends to read:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011...mpany-to-taxpayer-backstopped-depositors.html

You can argue that this is just normal business, the other big banks have their derivatives operations largely in the depositary. But BofA has owned Merrill for over a year and a half, and didn’t undertake this move until it was downgraded. Goldman and Morgan Stanley reamin big players in this business and don’t have a large depositary. If this was all normal business, BofA would have done this a while ago, and not in response to market pressure, and they would have gotten the FDIC on board. The way this was done says something is amiss.

And BoA isn't the only one. JP Morgan now has $80 trillion associated with their FDIC insured counterparts and banks in total now have $200 trillion worth of derivative risk on the tax payer's backs. This should be absolutely infuriating to everyone. Death of Glass Steagall was death of America. The head honchos at these places should be arrested and thrown in jail under RICO laws. They're essentially cartels or a financial mafia running and tanking our entire financial system. When money is being made they're the ones that reap the vast majority of it, but when things go south, they make everyone pay.

 

[chiro]

And BoA isn't the only one. JP Morgan now has $80 trillion associated with their FDIC insured counterparts and banks in total now have $200 trillion worth of derivative risk on the tax payer's backs. This should be absolutely infuriating to everyone. Death of Glass Steagall was death of America. The head honchos at these places should be arrested and thrown in jail under RICO laws. They're essentially cartels or a financial mafia running and tanking our entire financial system. When money is being made they're the ones that reap the vast majority of it, but when things go south, they make everyone pay.

Am I the only one who can't really comprehend how much money this is?

200 trillion is more than three times the world GDP. I just can not comprehend how you can even create that much even in the midset of all the resources on the planet!

I'd love to hear anyone elses opinion on if they can or can not really comprehend that kind of amount!

 

[gravenewworld]

Am I the only one who can't really comprehend how much money this is?

200 trillion is more than three times the world GDP. I just can not comprehend how you can even create that much even in the midset of all the resources on the planet!

I'd love to hear anyone elses opinion on if they can or can not really comprehend that kind of amount!

The derivatives market in the United States alone is now estimated to be worth about $600 trillion. Yes that's with a T. When Brooksley Born was warning us over and over and over again about the dangers of an unregulated derivatives market, she was talking about a $100 trillion operation back then. That was only about 10 years ago; in that short of a time span since then things have gotten much bigger and lack of regulation has stayed the same.

 

[chiro]

I provide job security and have had a very difficult past 3 years - it's never been more challenging to make a living in my 35 years experience.

Increases in utilities, fuel, minimum wage, HIPPA/MIPPA compliance, and new licensing requirements have driven costs up. My revenues dropped by approximately 65% at one point. Worse yet, Government mandated restrictions have cut future revenue streams by 50% in one major line of my business. Additionally, some of my clients have gone out of business because conventional business credit lines have disappeared. I even had a problem with a supplier that took my money and could not deliver as promised.

On top of problems with my own business - the line has been long of people showing up in need of help with their problems.

Given all of this - those aging hippies banging drums and college kids that have never tried to service a loan or make a payroll don't have a clue about the real world. IMO - all they want is to complain and get another handout. Again IMO - they're nothing but a group of whiny hipocrites waiting for someone to take care of them - and need to grow up.

I'm sorry to hear that.

My parents used to run a small business (corner store bought and a cafe that they opened) so I got to become aware of what it was like to basically work six/seven days a week (sundays was for getting all the crap you didn't have time for on monday to saturday done), but that was a while ago.

The reality is that no-one deserves or better yet is "entitled" to a job, and I don't like when people say this.

What I do not like is the incentive schemes for people to start a business of their own whether its a trade (electrician, plumber, and so on) or any other small business.

Now I realize that not everybody is a natural born entrepreneur: very few are and I don't see a problem with people getting a job with someone else, but by no means are people entitled to it.

I think the best person who says it well is Peter Schiff: he talks about the regulations that he faces running a business, the percentage of his earnings that he pays to tax and some other things and he lays out in simple terms.

He even went down to the Wall street protests and talked to some of the people and had an "altercation" with some of the protesters. Sadly these protesters came off (at least in my view) to think that they are "entitled" to jobs and that what was happening is anti-capitalist, when in fact a capitalist system basically doesn't give anyone no matter how big or integrated they are into society any preferential treatment.

The thing that I see the solution, and I base this off listening to other people as well, is to give everyone the ability to create wealth if they want to in a fair and honest way like it used to be.

The other thing that made me think was when Peter Schiff confronted these people when they asked Peter why Americans were not getting jobs, and Peter asked them if they would pay more for their product. As it turns out people are addicted to cheap goods and they perpetuate the very system that they are complaining about. It's like a self perpeutating cycle: people get addicted to cheap goods which means local companies go out of business or move production overseas, and then people lose jobs who are "forced" to buy cheap goods, which then is self-perpetuating and so on.

But the main reason why I replied is that you said something specifically about credit.

Given that you currently are in your own business, I wanted to get your feedback on something: what do you think is an optimal way for determining credit worthiness of businesses (by this I mean how to judge whether you should extend credit) as well as the terms (interest rate, period, credit caps etc) that would help encourage serious entrepreneurs to get off the ground, but to filter out the people who would otherwise waste resources that could go to people who would otherwise create businesses that would contribute and hire people?

The thing is that credit is an indirect form of resource allocation, and my feeling is if business people like yourself actually had a voice on this issue, then there might be opportunity for real change.

 

[moejoe15]

You have heard in the news that a large majority of us think we are going in the wrong direction. Few of those have any idea how or why. The wall street protests are the voice of the incoherent masses and it will get louder.

My grandparents (4) came to the US in the 20's with NOTHING. They learned to read and write english (instead of making everyone ELSE learn spanish as our current influx does and no, I'm not hispanic) Both families bought a house and around 100 acres in CT. The grandfather I lived with worked while my grandmother stayed home, tended the garden, chickens and pigs. We mostly lived off what we grew. They weren't saddled with a killer mortgage and had no problem paying of their mortgages with a modest single income. Who can do that today let alone an immigrant with nothing?

There weren't house flippers then or greedy real estate people. The middle class was happy being in the middle and didn't have the unrealistic visions that we can all be rich. People bought houses with the goal of LIVING in them, not making money off them. They could also buy land cheaply without being taxed to death on a few extra acres (unlike now).

The middle class of this country in my opinion doesn't have nearly as much opportunity any more. I think the pie is only so big and when the haves take a bigger piece, everyone else's piece must get smaller. And the piece that the have's have is now a lot bigger and growing.

I hear the republicans chant their 'redistribution of wealth' mantra like it's a sin. Do I want a redistribution of wealth? YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I DO. And don't get me wrong, I have a big enough piece. It isn't for myself.

And this is just one of the things that's wrong with us, there are many more that are just as bad. Don't get me started on our injustice system that we call the rule of law where all we care about is the letter of the law while ignoring the intent, perfectly designed to make lawyers rich with a never ending cascade of new laws that bury justice deeper every day. And I'd like to be alone with a bat with everyone that thinks a corporation should be treated like a person.

Yeah, the masses are incoherent but they are getting louder and rightfully so.

 

[WhoWee]

holy crap I am shocked, wasn't expecting to see this much ignorance in PF.

do you know why are they actually doing this or are you just spitting out the ******** you see in ad sponsored news ?

Please support your post.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45015743?__source=google|editorspicks|&par=google

"Why on Earth do regulators go along with this secrecy?

Last week we learned from Bloomberg News that the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC) had been fighting over whether or not Bank of America [BAC 7.35 0.13 (+1.8%) ] should be permitted to move a big book of derivatives from its Merrill Lynch subsidiary to a commercial banking subsidiary backed by the government.


What derivatives? What are they worth? Why is the FDIC so adverse to this transfer? Why is the Fed pleased with it?

We have no clue. No one is saying a word. Bank of America won't discuss it. The regulators are keeping officially mum."

While I believe the Occupy Wall Street movement is nothing more than a bunch of clueless folks running around having a pity party - there are some real concerns about what is really going on behind the scenes with the Federal Reserve and the world's derivatives market.

Thanks again - to Bill Clinton and Congress.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1869041_1869040_1869098,00.html

 

[WhoWee]

But the main reason why I replied is that you said something specifically about credit.

Given that you currently are in your own business, I wanted to get your feedback on something: what do you think is an optimal way for determining credit worthiness of businesses (by this I mean how to judge whether you should extend credit) as well as the terms (interest rate, period, credit caps etc) that would help encourage serious entrepreneurs to get off the ground, but to filter out the people who would otherwise waste resources that could go to people who would otherwise create businesses that would contribute and hire people?

The thing is that credit is an indirect form of resource allocation, and my feeling is if business people like yourself actually had a voice on this issue, then there might be opportunity for real change.

When I see the Obama Administration guaranteeing a $520 Million loan to a troubled solar company, a comparable amount to another solar company that will build their panels in Mexico, and yet another EV company with offshore production (but intends to reopen a plant in DE) - it tells me the Government is more interested in pushing an agenda and supporting supporters than in creating jobs.
*****

With that said - if you are thinking about starting a business, please consider the following capital, management, and concept.

Do you have a detailed business plan for the first 5 years that includes all start up costs and on-going capital requirements for expansion AND tax strategies. Do you know the business model well enough and done enough due diligence to predict all possible expenses? Do you have enough direct knowledge or experience in the industry to be self sufficient - or will you rely upon the experience of employees? Is the business concept viable and competitive?

Once you've assembled this detailed plan, you will evaluate your own investment resources and determine how much you are personally willing to risk (lose) in the event of failure. At this point you will know how much cash you will invest and property you will pledge (to your lender). You will also know how much investment capital you will need - and when you will need it.

This information will be included in your loan proposal to the bank (or your COM to potential investors).
***

Personally, I don't care if you're planning to go into business with a used hot dog cart outside bars/clubs at 2:00 AM, an auto body shop, or a manufacturing venture - if you fail to conduct due diligence and construct a detailed business plan - you greatly increase your chances of failure.

With all of this said - the creditworthiness of the business should be based on the business venture (and guarantor's) ability to re-pay the loan. Do not depend on asset appreciation in your projections. If the business does not have an established credit record - personal guarantees will be required. To be safe - always plan over a 5 year period - use conservative revenue figures (below known industry averages) and slightly over-estimate expenses (about 5%) to account for increases and always budget for marketing (even if you don't plan to advertise) as a percentage of sales (see industry norms).
****

I engage in exhaustive research (my wife will attest) before starting a project - often more than a year - and plan over 5 years. If your venture succeeds through 5 years as planned it should be smooth sailing afterwards. UNLESS the Government changes the rules and you have to adjust mid-stream as has happened to me repeatedly over the past few years.

 

[bundd]

Please support your post.

**** my bad I had only seen the first page, didn't realize it was already 40 pages long, but still, things are garbagety and at least they are doing something.

 

[edward]

I provide job security and have had a very difficult past 3 years - it's never been more challenging to make a living in my 35 years experience.

Increases in utilities, fuel, minimum wage, HIPPA/MIPPA compliance, and new licensing requirements have driven costs up. My revenues dropped by approximately 65% at one point. Worse yet, Government mandated restrictions have cut future revenue streams by 50% in one major line of my business. Additionally, some of my clients have gone out of business because conventional business credit lines have disappeared. I even had a problem with a supplier that took my money and could not deliver as promised.

On top of problems with my own business - the line has been long of people showing up in need of help with their problems.

Given all of this - those aging hippies banging drums and college kids that have never tried to service a loan or make a payroll don't have a clue about the real world. IMO - all they want is to complain and get another handout. Again IMO - they're nothing but a group of whiny hipocrites waiting for someone to take care of them - and need to grow up.

There is the big disconnect. "Starting 35 year ago I did this or that and was successful". I personally started out 45 years ago and was very successful, but I could not do that now. Had you started your ventures in 2006 you would probably be filling for bankruptcy about now.

Millions upon millions of young Americans have completely lost faith in the U.S. economy and are mad as hell that their economic futures have been destroyed. The recent economic downturn has hit those under the age of 30 the hardest. Today, there are hordes of young people that should be entering their most productive years that are sitting home with nothing to do.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...he-age-of-30-are-giving-up-on-the-u-s-economy

 

[OmCheeto]

Am I the only one who can't really comprehend how much money this is?

I'm going on 3 years, and still don't get it.

Re: A National Catastrophe
Sep26-08
...did someone hedge their funds on Jupiter real estate.

$455,000,000,000,000.00! Ah! hahahahahahaha!

Silly humans...

I even read a chicken example(I'm a bit simple minded and require simple explanations)

I found http://www.investopedia.com/articles/basics/07/derivatives_basics.asp#axzz1cHuLr7gU" incomprehensible.

When the word is "derivatives", most people are lucky if they can conjure up anything but an indistinct fog.

Derivatives are generally placed in the realm of advanced or technical investing, but there is no reason why they should remain a mystery to common investors. This article will use a simple story of a fictional farm to explore the mechanics of derivatives.

Sorry! I'm still in a fog.

Maybe http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/12/02/business/1247465942454/geithner-on-derivatives-cnbc.html?ref=derivatives" can shed some light on it.

I lost count of the number of times he used the word "Fraud".

 

[Evo]

There is the big disconnect. Starting 35 year ago I did this or that and was successful. I personally started out 45 years ago and was very successful, but I could not do that now. Had you started your ventures in 2006 you would probably be filling for bankruptcy about now.

Millions upon millions of young Americans have completely lost faith in the U.S. economy and are mad as hell that their economic futures have been destroyed. The recent economic downturn has hit those under the age of 30 the hardest. Today, there are hordes of young people that should be entering their most productive years that are sitting home with nothing to do.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...he-age-of-30-are-giving-up-on-the-u-s-economy

Overpopulation. Too many people, not enough jobs, and then there are those that think they deserve a certain level of pay and would rather sit at home than work for less money. IMO.

 

[edward]

Overpopulation. Too many people, not enough jobs, and then there are those that think they deserve a certain level of pay and would rather sit at home then work for less money. IMO.

That is probably true to a certain extent. I think it is more about young people realizing that they will never have the opportunity to accomplish what their parents accomplished.

Then again this isn't just about potentially lazy young people. I know people of all ages who have lost everything.

Perhaps the difference in point of view could be whether or not a person has seen hard working family members totally devastated.

 

[Proton Soup]

we need to just build a big prison and put all the derivatives traders in it.

 

[edward]

we need to just build a big prison and put all the derivatives traders in it.

Stock in Corrections Corporation of America would soar.

http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=CXW

 

[WhoWee]

There is the big disconnect. Starting 35 year ago I did this or that and was successful. I personally started out 45 years ago and was very successful, but I could not do that now. Had you started your ventures in 2006 you would probably be filling for bankruptcy about now.

That is a very astute and valid observation - IMO.

I'll cite 2 specific examples of my ventures that failed in that time frame.

The first was a production company focused on producing a cable television program for custom builders - funded by marketing co-ops (manufacturers and sub-contractors). At a total production and placement cost of $45k to $115k (depended upon specific TV market) there was a line of willing participants - especially as inventory of unsold new homes started to accumulate. The reality of a pending collapse became apparent as a few large and very successful builders ceased operations due to over-leveraging. Next, the smaller builders began to fail, sub-contractors failed, and all but essential manufacturers funds dried up and went away.

The second was a publishing venture. I secured the state-wide exclusive franchise/distribution rights to an industry specific magazine that was proven to work in 2 other regions (for this segment) and nationwide for 6 other industries. Each addition featured a prominent business on the cover, with photography, re-prints, and production costs borne by the suppliers of that business - along with additional advertising revenues. Let's just say the first marketing funds cut during a recession are print/magazine.

I didn't risk much capital in either venture. In a good economy, both ventures were proven winners - capable of returning 2,500% in the first year. However, in 2006 - 2008 they were both dismal failures.

I can accept those failures - they were limited risk start-ups. What bothers me more is a time proven business model with predictable income that suffered due to new regulations. Unfortunately, I can't elaborate.

 

[OmCheeto]

There is the big disconnect. Starting 35 year ago I did this or that and was successful. I personally started out 45 years ago and was very successful, but I could not do that now. Had you started your ventures in 2006 you would probably be filling for bankruptcy about now.



http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...he-age-of-30-are-giving-up-on-the-u-s-economy

I think it may be the fault of the overachievers.

#1 Only 55.3% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 were employed last year. That was the lowest level that we have seen since World War II.

Unfortunately not. But it IS right next to the other job, an Albertsons in the same strip mall. So easy commute to either place = good for me.

Two jobs?

I know that there are a few other people at the forum who've claimed/who claim to do the work of 4 or 5 people.

I know I'm guilty of making the claim. Perhaps not here, but in that; "They'll freakin' know how much work I did for this place once I'm gone." kind of "salaried" way, that I spit out from time to time, in frustration.

But then again, I've been looking at my last 27 years as "job experience" in the expectations that I start a business when I retire in 975 days.

Accountant: Check!
Software Engineer: Check!
Budgeting: Check!
Customer Service: Check!
Employee Management: erm... I'll have to hire someone. (I've never had kids, and told them right from the get go, I was NOT the right person)
Mechanic: Check!
PR: Check!
Retirement Check in case none of this pans out: Check!
Having the house, cards, and truck paid off, just in case the retirement check doesn't show up one day: Priceless

(ps. Kids. Never ever ask your boss if you should put out more effort. It will just make him/her want to gag, as you play with your Ipod, looking for the next song. And you will never ever get another job at that company, as I have a big freakin' mouth)

 

[John Creighto]

Please support your post.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45015743?__source=google|editorspicks|&par=google

"Why on Earth do regulators go along with this secrecy?

This is why I think that the whole debate of more regulation vs less regulation is a bit of a red herring. Obama's response to wall street corruption was not to prosecute people for fraud but to pass dob-frank. One effect of dob-frank was to exempt the SEC from the freedom of information act in some cases.

 

[mheslep]

The derivatives market in the United States alone is now estimated to be worth about $600 trillion.

False.

 

[Pythagorean]

Who the hell can afford to take time off work to protest anyway?

I may be in the 99%, but I'm also part of a more exclusive club on the opposite side of the bell-curve from the 1%; I work 12 hours a day, trying to make the most of american tax dollars, and I still need welfare to keep my family healthy.

 

[John Creighto]

UNBELIEVABLE.

Wall Street is at it again. BofA just dumped $75 trillion in potentially toxic assets onto US tax payers:http://seekingalpha.com/article/301...atives-on-u-s-taxpayers-with-federal-approvalThis is exactly why we need more protests to reinstate Glass Steagall as fast as possible.

As far as I understand the FDIC is only responsible for insuring deposits. I agree that the federal government shouldn't be responsible for insuring this type of risk but I doubt the subsidiary has any where near 75 trillion dollars in deposits so there is at least an upper limit on the risk to tax payers. What I am unclear on is what percentage of the risk BofA has to hold on to. I think for balance sheet purposes Dodd-frank requires them to hold onto 5% of the credit risk for a loan (I'm not sure if the same applies to derivatives). However, in reality if they wrote a contract and their subsidiary does not have the resources to pay then wouldn't they still be obligated to pay?

 

[John Creighto]

Who the hell can afford to take time off work to protest anyway?

I may be in the 99%, but I'm also part of a more exclusive club on the opposite side of the bell-curve from the 1%; I work 12 hours a day, trying to make the most of american tax dollars, and I still need welfare to keep my family healthy.

Income wise I'm In the top 10% in Canada and me and my girlfriend still find it difficult to afford a two bedroom apartment. If I wasn't paying over $600 a month on my student loan and a large amount of taxes it would be much easier. I find it hard to see the evidence of the prosperity we supposedly have.

 

[Pythagorean]

i'm still going to school, so my loans are in a grace period until I have a PhD (the "union card" of academics). At that point, my stipend will be big enough to be taxed and I'll pretty much be in your situation as I pay off my loans.

Or Obama could bail me out. I mean, I don't know... when I was a commercial fisherman, gov't took 1/3 of my taxes. They charged me like a farmer, but without the subsidizing kickbacks. That was about 50k in four years that went to the government just for being a citizen of the USA.

 

[edward]

Here's more from heavy weight Bill Black about it:

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/not-with-bang-but-whimper-bank-of.html

and here is the piece he recommends to read:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011...mpany-to-taxpayer-backstopped-depositors.html



And BoA isn't the only one. JP Morgan now has $80 trillion associated with their FDIC insured counterparts and banks in total now have $200 trillion worth of derivative risk on the tax payer's backs. This should be absolutely infuriating to everyone. Death of Glass Steagall was death of America. The head honchos at these places should be arrested and thrown in jail under RICO laws. They're essentially cartels or a financial mafia running and tanking our entire financial system. When money is being made they're the ones that reap the vast majority of it, but when things go south, they make everyone pay.

Derivatives are pervasive in the market place, There are even weather derivatives.

http://new.evomarkets.com/index.php?page=Weather_Markets-Markets-Market_Players

Wow weather derivatives were created by the Koch brothers.

http://thinkprogress.org/report/koch-oil-speculation/

This whole thing has evolved into one giant casino for the wealthy.

 

[edward]

i'm still going to school, so my loans are in a grace period until I have a PhD (the "union card" of academics). At that point, my stipend will be big enough to be taxed and I'll pretty much be in your situation as I pay off my loans.

Or Obama could bail me out. I mean, I don't know... when I was a commercial fisherman, gov't took 1/3 of my taxes. They charged me like a farmer, but without the subsidizing kickbacks. That was about 50k in four years that went to the government just for being a citizen of the USA.

Both of those things will be on the OWS agenda when the time is right.

 

[OmCheeto]

The derivatives market in the United States alone is now estimated to be worth about $600 trillion.

False.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/198197-why-derivatives-caused-financial-crisis"
April 12, 2010


http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/demeritt061608.html"
June 16, 2008

Somewhere http://hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/07/the-horrific-derivatives-bubble-that-could-one-day-destroy-the-entire-world-financial-system/" ?

July 13, 2011
Today, the worldwide derivatives market is approximately 20 times the size of the entire global economy. Because derivatives are so unregulated, nobody knows for certain exactly what the total value of all the derivatives worldwide is, but low estimates put it around 600 trillion dollars and high estimates put it at around 1.5 quadrillion dollars.
...
The truth is that we should have never allowed world financial markets to become a giant casino.
But we did.
Soon enough we will all pay the price, and when that disastrous day comes, most Americans will still not understand what is happening.

I spent the whole freakin' day studying derivatives, and still don't understand them.

Perhaps this guy was right:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/198197-why-derivatives-caused-financial-crisis"

A derivative is NOT an asset. It’s, in reality, nothing, just an imaginary security of no tangible value that banks/ financial institutions trade as a kind of “gentleman’s bet” on the value of future risk or securities.

Let me give you an example. Let’s say you and I want to bet on whether our neighbor Joe will default on his mortgage. Is the bet an asset? Does it have any real value? Both counts register a definite “no.”

How the hell can a whole lot of nothing be worth between $600 trillion and $1500 trillion dollars?

Is this why the aliens don't come and visit?

 

[rootX]

Income wise I'm In the top 10% in Canada and me and my girlfriend still find it difficult to afford a two bedroom apartment. If I wasn't paying over $600 a month on my student loan and a large amount of taxes it would be much easier. I find it hard to see the evidence of the prosperity we supposedly have.

Are you sure you are top 10%?

I have never been in top 10% but I can pay all my school loan right now and still graduate from the school with some savings.

 

[rootX]

As for personal opinion I think 99% was the worst campaign youths ever pulled out. Most of my friends, who often support many silly causes, are not supporting these 99%.