Occupy Wall Street protest in New-York

[ThinkToday]

Perhaps you are unaware of https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=113181" . To quote:


You made a post with a factual claim, so you need to back up that claim.

Ha Ha, ok we can stick to the same guidelines used in technical discussions even though this is the "PF Lounge" discussing "Politics and World Affairs". I'll give you some sources, but omg, there are just too many. Besides, any half informed adult should know most of this from history and current news outlets. But, here you go...

JFK Voting in Chicago: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-09-26-jfk-chicago-politics_N.htm

JFK Voting in Chicago and Texas: http://stonezone.com/article.php?id=391

ACORN alive and well with a new name doing some ole same ole stuff: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...alls-for-probe-into-acorn-occupy-wall-street/

And this year’s voter fraud in action: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/25/voter-fraud-allegations-hit-san-francisco-mayors-race/

And another absentee ballot investigation: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/PressReleases/2011/2011-07-05.aspx

Tax Info, from FactCheck.org “Who pays all of these taxes? The best information on that comes from the Congressional Budget Office, which has tracked the tax burden for many years. The most recent complete data cover 2007. CBO figured in that year more than half of all federal taxes was paid by the top 10 percent of income earners. They paid 55 percent of all federal taxes in 2007, CBO said.

That's a comprehensive figure, counting the income tax, payroll taxes, excise taxes and even the corporate income tax (borne by stockholders in the form of reduced dividends and appreciation). And perhaps surprisingly, the top 10 percent of earners pay a greater share of federal taxes now than they did before the Bush tax cuts, which Democrats constantly criticize as a giveaway to "the rich." The top 10 percent paid 50 percent of all federal taxes in 2001.

However, that comes in spite of lower tax rates at the top, not because of it. The reason the most affluent 10 percent pay a greater share of taxes is that they are getting a greater share of all income. Their share of all pre-tax income went from 37.5 percent in 2001 to 42 percent in 2007.

One figure that gets a lot of attention is the percentage of individuals and married couples who pay zero federal income taxes. Those figures come from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The TPC's most recent report was released June 14, and it shows that this year 46.4 percent of "tax units" (individuals or married couples) had zero federal income tax liability. That's because of various exemptions and tax credits aimed at reducing the income-tax burden on lower-income workers and families with children. The figure is down from 2008 and 2009, when the percentage topped out at 50.8 percent.”

LOL, there is so much it’s hard to find the specific piece I saw on the news, but I’ll keep looking. The 51% freeloader number was off a bit (50.8%) from the report I saw, and that has been revised down to 46.4% this year. So, 46.4% don't give a rip if government raises taxes, since they won't pay a dime. Sure more benefits, its FREEEEEEEE

 

[daveb]

JFK Voting in Chicago: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-09-26-jfk-chicago-politics_N.htm

JFK Voting in Chicago and Texas: http://stonezone.com/article.php?id=391

Can't see the first link link - I think you have to be a subscriber to USA Today.

As for the second piece, it's an opinion piece of a book review - I don't see any sources Mr. Stone uses to back up his claims. Besides, what does what happened 50 years ago have to do with today?

ACORN alive and well with a new name doing some ole same ole stuff: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...alls-for-probe-into-acorn-occupy-wall-street/

I'm not sure what you're getting at here - this is about NYCC and allegations it rerouted (illegally, according to the allegations) money to OWS, but how is that an indictment of OWS?

And this year’s voter fraud in action: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/25/voter-fraud-allegations-hit-san-francisco-mayors-race/

From your link (my bold):

But John Arntz, the director of the San Francisco City and County Department of Elections, has said that he doesn't think there is a clear cut case of voter fraud because, among other reasons, the site was not a sanctioned polling place involving election workers.

"There's nothing that I saw that is a clear violation of the election code. I mean, on its face, it doesn't look real good," Arntz said.

Where exactly is the voter fraud?

Tax Info, from FactCheck.org “Who pays all of these taxes? The best information on that comes from the Congressional Budget Office, which has tracked the tax burden for many years. The most recent complete data cover 2007. CBO figured in that year more than half of all federal taxes was paid by the top 10 percent of income earners. They paid 55 percent of all federal taxes in 2007, CBO said.

That's a comprehensive figure, counting the income tax, payroll taxes, excise taxes and even the corporate income tax (borne by stockholders in the form of reduced dividends and appreciation). And perhaps surprisingly, the top 10 percent of earners pay a greater share of federal taxes now than they did before the Bush tax cuts, which Democrats constantly criticize as a giveaway to "the rich." The top 10 percent paid 50 percent of all federal taxes in 2001.

However, that comes in spite of lower tax rates at the top, not because of it. The reason the most affluent 10 percent pay a greater share of taxes is that they are getting a greater share of all income. Their share of all pre-tax income went from 37.5 percent in 2001 to 42 percent in 2007.

One figure that gets a lot of attention is the percentage of individuals and married couples who pay zero federal income taxes. Those figures come from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The TPC's most recent report was released June 14, and it shows that this year 46.4 percent of "tax units" (individuals or married couples) had zero federal income tax liability. That's because of various exemptions and tax credits aimed at reducing the income-tax burden on lower-income workers and families with children. The figure is down from 2008 and 2009, when the percentage topped out at 50.8 percent.”

LOL, there is so much it’s hard to find the specific piece I saw on the news, but I’ll keep looking. The 51% freeloader number was off a bit (50.8%) from the report I saw, and that has been revised down to 46.4% this year. So, 46.4% don't give a rip if government raises taxes, since they won't pay a dime. Sure more benefits, its FREEEEEEEE

I'm not sure what this has to do with OWS, but go ahead and keep posting OT links.

 

[OmCheeto]

I'm not sure what this has to do with OWS, but go ahead and keep posting OT links.

I haven't had time to take a look at any of his links. I did though look up the person behind one though:

Roger Stone

* "Unless you can fake sincerity, you'll get nowhere in this business." (one of Stone's favorites)
* "Politics with me isn't theater. It's performance art. Sometimes, for its own sake."
* "Don't order fish at a steakhouse,"
* "White shirt + tan face = confidence,"
* "Undertakers and chauffeurs are the only people who should be allowed by law to wear black suits."
* "Hit it from every angle. Open multiple fronts on your enemy. He must be confused, and feel besieged on every side."
* "Always praise 'em before you hit 'em."
* "Be bold. The more you tell, the more you sell." (attributed to advertising guru David Ogilvy)
* "Losers don't legislate." (from Richard Nixon)
* "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." ("Often called the Three Corollaries", Stone says of this rule.)
* "Nobody ever built a statue to a committee."
* "Avoid obviousness."
* "Never do anything till you're ready to do it."
* "Look good = feel good."
* "Always keep the advantage."
* "Never complain, never explain."
* "Lay low, play dumb, keep moving."
* "Always mount your protest or picket sign on a good solid piece of wood. Comes in handy as a bat if some union goons want to scuffle."

I don't think any of the above will ever come out of my fingertips on the "Favorite Quotes" thread.

 

[Bacle2]

@Think Today

"LOL, you want me to link things in the current news! omfg, get off your lazy butt and Google it. Typical liberal always wanting others to do the work for you."

Are you one of those "tough guys" insulting others in anonymity? I love how Coulter, Franken, many others are tough-enough to insult others in their books, yet do not have it in them to go to a coffee shop or bookstore and insult their opponnents face-to-face.

Still, applying the same rigour standards, why don't you back up this claim too? Or maybe we
can all start going down that road.

 

[WhoWee]

Is the perception of the "movement" changing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ats-from-ows/2011/11/07/gIQA866IxM_story.html

"As radicalism creeps in, credibility retreats from OWS"

"At what point does a protest movement become an excuse for camping? At what point is utopianism discredited by the seedy, dangerous, derelict fun fair it creates? At what point do the excesses of a movement become so prevalent that they can reasonably be called its essence? At what point do Democratic politicians need to repudiate a form of idealism that makes use of Molotov cocktails?

The emergence of Occupy Wall Street raised Democratic hopes for the emergence of a leftist equivalent to the Tea Party movement. The comparison is now laughable. Set aside, for a moment, the reports of sexual assault in Zuccotti Park and the penchant for public urination. Tea Party activists may hate politicians, but they venerate American political institutions. Veneration does not always involve understanding. But the Tea Party’s goal is democratic influence."

 

[Bacle2]

Still, isn't the more important issue that of whether the basis for the protests is defensible? Many seem to believe that the game is rigged in favor of those at the top, and that they do not have a fair chance of making it; try starting your life with a $50,000+ student loan. It seems to be the case (e.g., Time magazine's last issue ) that the larger the separation between those at the top and those at the bottom, the harder it is to climb up. And , from Time's data, it seems like someone born in the bottom 20% in the US is less likely to move out of the bottom than previously, and also less likely than those born in some European countries.

You will always have idiots and even criminals joining some of these movements, but that does not by itself invalidate the original rational for the protests.

 

[Evo]

My problem is that the OWS are bungling things. I am for Social Security, I am for student grants, I am for medicare. But these people are doing no good because they are not organized effectively. I actually feel that they are doing more harm than good.

 

[mheslep]

Is the perception of the "movement" changing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ats-from-ows/2011/11/07/gIQA866IxM_story.html

"As radicalism creeps in, credibility retreats from OWS"

"At what point does a protest movement become an excuse for camping? At what point is utopianism discredited by the seedy, dangerous, derelict fun fair it creates? At what point do the excesses of a movement become so prevalent that they can reasonably be called its essence? At what point do Democratic politicians need to repudiate a form of idealism that makes use of Molotov cocktails?

...

Slander! OWS is credible and must be encouraged. Bring in another octogenarian rock star. Where can I donate?

...Conservatives should rejoice and wish for it long life, abundant publicity and sufficient organization to endorse congressional candidates deemed worthy. All Democrats eager for OWS’ imprimatur, step forward.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...f_occupy_CzBSULoDQNsyc0EAPRoTAP#ixzz1dHKgk9RR

 

[Bacle2]

mhslep wrote, in part:
"Slander! OWS is credible and must be encouraged. Bring in another octogenarian rock star. Where can I donate?"

So you do believe that a movement can go on thruout much of the world for more than a month without a sound premise? Just because an explicit mission statement is not made,
does that mean to you that people have no grounds for being upset?

 

[Evo]

Bacle, please learn how to use the quote button, and use it going forward.

 

[Evo]

OWS getting drummed out of business?

Wall Street Occupiers Fear Drummers Will Be Their Undoing

[O]rganizers now fear their inability to rein in the constant drumming will kill what support they've gotten and move the park's owners to ask police to clear them out.

At this point we have lost the support of allies in the Community Board and the state senator and city electeds who have been fighting the city to stave off our eviction, get us toilets, etc. On Tuesday there is a Community Board vote, which will be packed with media cameras and community members with real grievances. We have sadly demonstrated to them that we are unable to collectively 1) keep our space and surrounding areas clean and sanitary, 2) keep the park safe, 3) deal with internal conflict and enforce the Good Neighbor Policy that was passed by the General Assembly.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/10/wall-street-occupiers-fear-drummers-will-be-their-undoing/44085/

 

[Bacle2]

Evo: what happens is that sometimes when I post, the quote button is disabled, i.e., it does not appear. Can you suggest something?

 

[mheslep]

Bacle: that occurs in closed (locked) threads (discussions). This one is not (so far!).

 

[nsaspook]

Occupy Portland ends this weekend.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Occupy-Portland-133567753.html

We have sought to be as supportive as we possibly can, but I cannot wait for someone to die in the camp. I cannot wait for someone to use the camp as camouflage to inflict bodily harm on someone else," Adams said.

Adams said Portland police and federal officers will be working together to end the encampments, including any protesters remaining at Terry Schrunk Plaza.

When Portland can't take it anymore the movement is really over.

 

[Evo]

Occupy Portland ends this weekend.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Occupy-Portland-133567753.html



When Portland can't take it anymore the movement is really over.

One woman says "we can't break up the tribes", what, she thinks she's on a reality tv show? Another moved there from Cleveland and is apparently homeless? This is the problem with an event that is created by social media and isn't organized and doesn't have a clear purpose or plan. They have attracted bad elements that they are unable to control. Not good. They were never able to gather significant numbers or support. Pretty much doomed from the beginning, IMO.

 

[DoggerDan]

My problem is that the OWS are bungling things. I am for Social Security, I am for student grants, I am for medicare. But these people are doing no good because they are not organized effectively. I actually feel that they are doing more harm than good.

Yours is an interesting opinion, Evo. I, too, support SS, especially having had no choice but to pay into it, so I do expect the program to make good on it's promises. I used a couple of grants to help me through college, but they went dry after less than 15% of the bills were paid. Most of the funds were split about 50-50 between what I earned and what my folks supplied, and graduation was delayed until after I could come up with more funds. Try working two jobs for a while. Sort of puts things into perspective.

I still wound up with a little bit of debt when I graduated, but I was able to pay it off in less than a year, and remain debt-free to this day.

My opinion is that the Wall-Streeters suffer not from a lack of organization, but from an acute misunderstanding of both the nature and benefits of hard work, as well as an acute lack of understanding of "caveat emptor." No one forced them to take such extravagant student loans, and cheaper options have always existed, including the option of not attending college at all. Most schools offer work-study programs. I know many people my age who've been successful despite a lack of education beyond high school, or opting for the cheaper route of Jr. College or vocational school. One of my friend's sons is a successful programmer, working for Texas Instruments right out of high school, and at roughly the same pay I made, adjusted for inflation, about 10 years into my own career path with my degrees.

It should be a long-term financial assessment, done by the students themselves, their parents, and their high school counselors. I fear we've allowed the marketers of private colleges, roughly twice as expensive as public institutions, to convince our youth of two things, both of which are not true: 1) One must have a college education to thrive in this world. 2) Sheepskins from private institutions are more marketable than those from public institutions.

Both may have some truth to them. I contend what little truth they contain is minimal, and base my experience on the fact that when I earned my own sheepskin, fully two-thirds of my contemporaries from high school did not, yet they're doing just fine. I've kept in touch with them over the years, from letters, to e-mails, and Facebook, numbering more than 200 out of a graduating class of more than 600. Most of them have found their niche in life. Some own their own businesses, most are out of debt, a few own their homes outright. Yes, some are struggling, but they're few. Most have encountered the usual hardships in life. Lots of divorces, some medical issues, a few have lost children or spouses to disease or accident.

What they are doing is either working or looking for work. What they're not doing is clamoring on the streets demanding everyone else bail them out of the situations in which they find themselves at the hands of their own bad decisions. Quite frankly, I am as amazed they made it through any institution of higher learning as I am that any institution of higher learning handed them a sheepskin.

I see the OWS movement as an indictment on the education "industry." Well, at least in part. They have other beefs, most of which are falling on the deaf ears of those of us who've scraped our way through life, some successfully, some not so much. Still, we've tried.

Given what I've gone through over the years, I have very little sympathy for these folks.

 

[Diracula]

What they are doing is either working or looking for work. What they're not doing is clamoring on the streets demanding everyone else bail them out of the situations in which they find themselves at the hands of their own bad decisions.

Is this meant to be ironic?

 

[OmCheeto]

Occupy Portland ends this weekend.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Occupy-Portland-133567753.html



When Portland can't take it anymore the movement is really over.

It was the Molotov cocktail event for me.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/11/police_arrest_man_at_occupy_po.html"
Wednesday, November 09, 2011
...
Lt. Robert King, a spokesman for the Portland Police Bureau, said officers were given a “very good description” of the man who threw the incendiary device and located him inside the Occupy Portland camp.

King said Hodson was arrested on Sunday for starting several fires inside the camp.

No one was injured in the incident, which scorched a staircase between two escalators at the center, located at 121 Southwest Salmon Street.

Oh! And what's this? He's a damn foreigner!

On Monday, Hodson told The Oregonian that he had just gotten into town over the weekend from Redding, Calif., and decided to join Occupy Portland

We really need to improve our border security.

On the bright side though, these Occupy gatherings do seem to attract the worst of the worst. Gathering them all into a two block area makes catching crooks like fishing in a barrel.

Also today...
Shawn Kimmel, 31, was arrested for disorderly conduct, possession of methamphetamine, carrying a concealed weapon after officers contacted him for his aggressive behavior at the camp. Kimmel was also arrested on an outstanding warrant for failure to appear on a criminal trespassing charge out of Clackamas County.

Another man at the camp, 20-year-old Christopher Hamblin-Rock,was booked into the Justice Center Jail on a probation violation related to a third degree theft conviction and furnishing false information to police.

 

[WhoWee]

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/111111/ows-2-deaths-at-occupy-protests-california-vermont

"OWS: 2 deaths at Occupy protests in California, Vermont
Two deaths have been reported at Occupy protests in Oakland, California, and Burlington, Vermont. Police say the incidents raise questions about the safety of the encampments"

***

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-oakland-shooting-1.html
""Tonight's incident underscores the reason why the encampment must end. The risks are too great," Quan said in a statement. "Camping is a tactic, not a solution."

The encampment, she said, has drained the financially strained city as it has been forced to pay for police protection and other services to deal with the protesters.

In recent days, Quan has come under criticism by City Council members and business owners who say she has failed to show leadership in dealing with Occupy Oakland."

 

[Bacle2]

Yours is an interesting opinion, Evo. I, too, support SS, especially having had no choice but to pay into it, so I do expect the program to make good on it's promises. I used a couple of grants to help me through college, but they went dry after less than 15% of the bills were paid. Most of the funds were split about 50-50 between what I earned and what my folks supplied, and graduation was delayed until after I could come up with more funds. Try working two jobs for a while. Sort of puts things into perspective.

I still wound up with a little bit of debt when I graduated, but I was able to pay it off in less than a year, and remain debt-free to this day.

My opinion is that the Wall-Streeters suffer not from a lack of organization, but from an acute misunderstanding of both the nature and benefits of hard work, as well as an acute lack of understanding of "caveat emptor." No one forced them to take such extravagant student loans, and cheaper options have always existed, including the option of not attending college at all. Most schools offer work-study programs. I know many people my age who've been successful despite a lack of education beyond high school, or opting for the cheaper route of Jr. College or vocational school. One of my friend's sons is a successful programmer, working for Texas Instruments right out of high school, and at roughly the same pay I made, adjusted for inflation, about 10 years into my own career path with my degrees.

It should be a long-term financial assessment, done by the students themselves, their parents, and their high school counselors. I fear we've allowed the marketers of private colleges, roughly twice as expensive as public institutions, to convince our youth of two things, both of which are not true: 1) One must have a college education to thrive in this world. 2) Sheepskins from private institutions are more marketable than those from public institutions.

Both may have some truth to them. I contend what little truth they contain is minimal, and base my experience on the fact that when I earned my own sheepskin, fully two-thirds of my contemporaries from high school did not, yet they're doing just fine. I've kept in touch with them over the years, from letters, to e-mails, and Facebook, numbering more than 200 out of a graduating class of more than 600. Most of them have found their niche in life. Some own their own businesses, most are out of debt, a few own their homes outright. Yes, some are struggling, but they're few. Most have encountered the usual hardships in life. Lots of divorces, some medical issues, a few have lost children or spouses to disease or accident.

What they are doing is either working or looking for work. What they're not doing is clamoring on the streets demanding everyone else bail them out of the situations in which they find themselves at the hands of their own bad decisions. Quite frankly, I am as amazed they made it through any institution of higher learning as I am that any institution of higher learning handed them a sheepskin.

I see the OWS movement as an indictment on the education "industry." Well, at least in part. They have other beefs, most of which are falling on the deaf ears of those of us who've scraped our way through life, some successfully, some not so much. Still, we've tried.

Given what I've gone through over the years, I have very little sympathy for these folks.

i) When you earned your degree: where the college prices as high as they are now? $5,000+ per semester is not unusual, and loans only go so far. Still, your advice on how-to I think would be welcome to many.

ii)AFAIK, a college degree is highly correlated with income, at least in today's information society, so your best bet is getting one; otherwise, your job may be automated or farned away somewhere else. Ask the steelworkers, many other unemployed factory workers today.

 

[Bacle2]

And there is also the fact that they are expected to pick themselves up by the bootstraps, while many WS firms and banks are given handouts, golden parachutes, etc. So the cries of shared effort ring hollow. Still, the criminalization of the whole movement is a disgrace.

 

[nsaspook]

It's really time to them to give up the camping idea and move indoors. It's just not working and will risk the health of many people who are honest about wanting change. I don't agree with most of what they are doing but have compassion for them as people.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...strators-Protesters-Illness-133669113.html?dr

With little sleep in cold conditions, cigarettes and drinks being passed from mouth to mouth, and few opportunities to wash hands, Zuccotti Park may now just be the best place to catch respiratory viruses, norovirus (also known as the winter vomiting virus) and tuberculosis, according to one doctor.

The damp clothing and cardboard signs wet with rain are also breeding grounds for mold. Some protesters are urinating in bottles and leaving food trash discarded throughout the campground, providing further opportunities for nastiness.

“Pretty much everything here is a good way to get sick,” Salvatore Cipolla, 23, from Long Island, told the Times. “It’ll definitely thin the herd.”

Some protesters have refused free flu shots, citing a "government conspiracy," the Times said.

 

[nsaspook]

Portland Occupy Crime stats.
http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2011-11/3056/49225/Occupy_Stats_111109.pdf

Police blotter (with Occupy Portland reports): http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=3056

 

[WhoWee]

I checked their website and can't find a single mention of the multi-million dollar bonuses for the Fannie and Freddie executives being paid now - (comparable to the AIG average - maybe higher) - where is the outrage from the "Occupiers"?

http://occupywallst.org/

Please label the following IMO:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/11/fannie-freddie-bonuses-three-times-the-size-of-aig-bonuses/

"Last week, another set of bonuses for bailed-out companies got decidedly less bad press. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to whom taxpayers have already given hundreds of billions, doled out $12.79 million in bonuses to its executives for meeting modest goals.

One could argue that there’s no outrage from the administration over the Fannie and Freddie bonuses because the total amount of bonuses is so much smaller.

But in fact, the average executive bonus is far larger.

Fannie and Freddie spent $12.79 million on 10 bonuses for an average of $1.27 million per bonus. "

***

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45245145/ns/business-real_estate/
"Regulator defends bonuses at Fannie, Freddie"

"This month, Fannie asked for $7.8 billion and Freddie requested $6 billion in extra aid to cover large quarterly losses, mostly caused by low mortgage rates reducing profits.

The House Financial Services Committee will meet Tuesday to consider a bill to stop the bonuses from being paid. Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) have also proposed ending all bonuses for Fannie and Freddie executives."

 

[Bacle2]

Who is defending Freddie and Fannie? How about stopping the bonuses for the WS firms that were bailed out? Did not happen.

 

[WhoWee]

Who is defending Freddie and Fannie? How about stopping the bonuses for the WS firms that were bailed out? Did not happen.

Again, I read through the http://occupywallst.org/ site - no mention of Freddie and Fannie bonuses - why is that? Freddie and Fannie just requested additional $billions.

***
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-20/bailout-of-wall-street-returns-8-2-profit-to-taxpayers-beating-treasuries.html

"The U.S. government’s bailout of financial firms through the Troubled Asset Relief Program provided taxpayers with higher returns than yields paid on 30- year Treasury bonds -- enough money to fund the Securities and Exchange Commission for the next two decades.
The government has earned $25.2 billion on its investment of $309 billion in banks and insurance companies, an 8.2 percent return over two years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. That beat U.S. Treasuries, high-yield savings accounts, money- market funds and certificates of deposit. Investing in the stock market or gold would have paid off better."

 

[Bacle2]

I have no clue of why that is; the bonuses should be stopped, but so should the WS ones have been stopped. Are you suggesting there is a bias towards Fannie and Freddie? What about the substance of the points I made, instead of bring up this?

 

[John Creighto]

Again, I read through the http://occupywallst.org/ site - no mention of Freddie and Fannie bonuses - why is that? Freddie and Fannie just requested additional $billions.

***
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-20/bailout-of-wall-street-returns-8-2-profit-to-taxpayers-beating-treasuries.html

"The U.S. government’s bailout of financial firms through the Troubled Asset Relief Program provided taxpayers with higher returns than yields paid on 30- year Treasury bonds -- enough money to fund the Securities and Exchange Commission for the next two decades.
The government has earned $25.2 billion on its investment of $309 billion in banks and insurance companies, an 8.2 percent return over two years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. That beat U.S. Treasuries, high-yield savings accounts, money- market funds and certificates of deposit. Investing in the stock market or gold would have paid off better."

Perhaps you could suggest useful edits that the site owners could make. Maybe they'd welcome the feedback if you are willing to be constructive with your commentary.

 

[WhoWee]

I have no clue of why that is; the bonuses should be stopped, but so should the WS ones have been stopped. Are you suggesting there is a bias towards Fannie and Freddie? What about the substance of the points I made, instead of bring up this?

Why should Wall Street bonuses be stopped?

 

[WhoWee]

Perhaps you could suggest useful edits that the site owners could make. Maybe they'd welcome the feedback if you are willing to be constructive with your commentary.

The Freddie and Fannie bonuses have been in the news all week - along with their request for almost $14Billion additional. I think it's strange the Occupiers aren't outraged - no mention on their website, haven't noticed any signs or other reports of their comments - any idea why?

 

[Bacle2]

Why should Wall Street bonuses be stopped?

I'm referring to the firms that were bailed out. And why don't you address most of my main points? What is the big deal with Freddie and Fannie? Those WS firms bailed out were also receiving bonuses with taxpayer money.

 

[WhoWee]

I'm referring to the firms that were bailed out. And why don't you address most of my main points? What is the big deal with Freddie and Fannie? Those WS firms bailed out were also receiving bonuses with taxpayer money.

I posted a link that shows the Wall Street firms paid the Government back with interest. Fannie and Freddie on the other hand asked for an additional $13 or $14Billion this past week - at the same time the bonuses were announced.

This guy is basically a US Government employee.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

"Securities and Exchange Commission documents show that Ed Haldeman, who announced last week that he is stepping down as Freddie Mac’s CEO, received a base salary of $900,000 last year yet took home an additional $2.3 million in bonus pay. Records show other Fannie and Freddie executives got similar Wall Street-style compensation packages; Fannie Mae CEO Michael Williams, for example, got $2.37 million in performance bonuses. "Again - why should Wall Street bonuses be stopped?

 

[Bacle2]

Still. Who is defending Freddie and Fannie? I never did. I have no idea of what you are trying to get at; I have made many points, and you address nothing but the issue of the bonuses. Still, Freddie and Fannie are a mix of private and public.

And, if Freddie and Fannie were to pay back their govt. loans, why can't they have bonuses, just like the WS firms did?

 

[WhoWee]

Still. Who is defending Freddie and Fannie? I never did. I have no idea of what you are trying to get at; I have made many points, and you address nothing but the issue of the bonuses. Still, Freddie and Fannie are a mix of private and public.

And, if Freddie and Fannie were to pay back their govt. loans, why can't they have bonuses, just like the WS firms did?

Freddie and Fannie requested an additional $13.8 Billion the same week they announced their bonuses. My point continues to be there is no outrage from the "movement" and I don't understand the reason - if you don't know why either it's quite understandable - it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Bacle2]

Listen: at the end of the day, there is plenty of blame to go around; both from lenders and borrowers, from WS. WS got a slap on the wrist, walk around with bonuses, and have become around 8% of the economy, which is not good, as they do not produce anything, but instead just facilitate production. What is the rational for those bonuses? What is the big deal they do/ have done to deserve that type of money and bonuses? Yes, they are a necessary part of the economy, but, what is the reason they deserve to be paid that much ? Just for producing artificial financial artifacts that help little-if-anything to the overall economy?