Occupy Wall Street protest in New-York

[JDoolin]

I'm starting to think this movement should be taken seriously. And I mean not dismissing them as "communist hippies who can't find any jobs that will accept their degree in art history". Maybe I'll nip on down to Occupy Spokane and find out for myself?

I hope it is taken very seriously. Maybe there was no "central message" from that list, but the gist of it, I think, is correct.

Personally, I think the main central message of Occupy Wall Street is that we don't have a shortage of resources. But we do have a shortage of jobs.

I'd like to suggest that we open up the topic of Bastiat's "Broken Window Fallacy."

In particular, how is this argument being used to trick Republican voters into voting against their pocketbook and the country's economic health?

For instance, is the government spending on education, scientific research, post offices, high-speed rail, maintenance on roads and infrastructure, building new infrastructure, museums, parks, stadiums, etc, being cast as "breaking windows?" or are they classified as "earmarks?"

I should also put the bailouts on that list. The question then becomes. "When the window breaks, should the shopkeeper fix it, should the boy who broke the window fix it, or should he just do without windows, or close up shop?" I mean, it's obvious that breaking windows is not good policy. But what about fixing windows when they do break, (as they inevitably will.) And instead of worrying about whether we're going to replace the window, shouldn't we take that for granted, but worry about replacing the window with something less breakable?

I really can't figure out what Bastiat's stance on breaking windows is. When a boy breaks a window, and the shopkeeper has to pay for the window, and the glazier gets a job for fixing the window. C'est la vie. The glass is broke. The boy can't pay for it. Take it out of his hide. The glazier isn't going to make a new window for free. So what IS the point of this stupid parable? Don't break windows? Duh!

 

[daveb]

I think much of the reason many Democratic politicians support OWS (regardless of whether or not they previously did things in direct opposition to the things being protested) is because the politicians see how effective the Republicans were in utilizing the TEA Party to get elected in 2010, and are hoping to capitalize upon this movement to get reelected in a similar manner.

 

[FlexGunship]

Oh, c'mon - today on the radio, I heard two clips:

-One of them chanting "workers of the world, unite" (where have we heard that before?)
-Another of a guy saying he was looking for a job (no you're not)

...and yesterday, it was an interview of a woman who'se dog was wearing a t'shirt that said "down with fat cats"...

I had a post earlier to this effect.

If the "Occupy Wall Street" protest ever had a point, it's long gone now. It's become stale and nonsensical at times. I tried to post some pictures earlier but they got deleted for content and I got an infraction (that should give you a strong indication of how constructive the protests are).

Protests are a FANTASTIC form of civil disobedience, and a great way to promote social change. But, this protest has failed in every way; there is no message and there are no ideas being generated! Seriously, take two seconds out from knee-jerk posting, and look at some of the signs: (http://www.google.com/search?q=occu....,cf.osb&fp=8b758d2393131806&biw=1397&bih=750).

Those pictures are from Google image search. They are the definition of non-partisan. Let's all admit that the protest was a fantastic and incredibly important thing! But that it's way over-ripe now and that the protesters themselves don't have any more answers than anyone else.

 

[WhoWee]

Seriously, what is your fixation with President Obama and Clinton? Where have I ever mentioned any of them in my posts? The Wall Street protests transcend partisan politics and address the fundamental issue that is a plague and scourge on our society-special interest group's money running our government. The US hasn't been a democracy for a while and has been transformed into a plutocracy through shady backdoor mechanisms and big businesses running things by having politicians in their pockets (both dems and repubs!). We live under a facade of freedom, a Potemkin Village of democracy. This needs to go beyond Occupying Wall Street, this needs to be an Occupy America movement. I want my country back.

What exactly are we supposed to do when the level of corruption and conflicts of interest go to the level of complexity and depth like the example I provided in the Goldman Sachs and eToys case? They own the ENTIRE system from top to bottom. The system has started to fall apart, our country now faces huge deficits, high unemployment, and a very bleak outlook. Exactly where was the government BEFORE the meltdown happened? Why weren't they monitoring the activities on the derivatives market? Where was the government BEFORE companies like Enron melted down? Why did the government allows big banks 19 exemptions from hedging rules over the past 20 years that allowed them to increase their odds of being able to manipulate commodities markets? The government was no where to be found because the head hanchos running the agencies that were supposed to be monitoring big business have people running them that used to work for the very companies they are supposed to be reprimanding and regulating. It's ridiculous and I'm glad the American public finally woke up. It's about time we started a movement like Iceland did after their corrupt banking system put their country on the verge of collapse.

There's an old saying "be careful what you wish for as it just might come true". I'm not hearing any serious solutions to fix problems. "Revolution" doesn't guarantee positive change - total collapse MAYBE - what are the stated goals of this movement? What is the plan to achieve these goals?

 

[humanino]

take two seconds out from knee-jerk posting, and look at some of the signs

I did and I did not find the majority of them "stupid"

I think there are few people as qualified as Elizabeth Warren to know what she is talking about here

 

[FlexGunship]

I did and I did not find the majority of them "stupid"

Really?

"Eat the Rich"
"People over Profit"
"No Blank Check"
"Bailouts: The Audacity of Dopes"
"Wall $treet Reform First"
"Bring Back Crystal Pepsi"
And a million copies of "We are the 99%"

There is NO content to this protest. I'm not saying it's worthless, I'm saying that it's worth has been realized already. The protest happened, and now everyone knows what's up. That's it! There's no more to it. Unless there's a bill the protesters are supporting, or a specific individual with a clear and concise message, the protest is over! Right?

What do they think will happen next?

Evil Wall Street Guy 1: "You know, they have a point... bailout are failouts."
Evil Wall Street Guy 2: "Wow, I never thought of it that way. Look, there's a guy in a pig suit telling us to clean his stall."
Evil Wall Street Guy 1: "Gosh, for the first few weeks of this protest, I was pretty ambivalent, but now that I see a sign that says 'people need jobs' for the thirtieth time, it's really sinking in."
Evil Wall Street Guy 2: "Man, I think it's time for no more blank checks."
Evil Wall Street Guy 3: "Yeah, and bring back crystal Pepsi!"

OOORRRRR...

Politician 1: "Gosh, we sure have been trying to stimulate the jobs market for so long... but, now that we have all of these protesters we finally have some guidance."
Politician 2: "Yeah! Look at that sign: 'People over profit.' I like it. We should really work on passing that law."
Politician 1: "And look at that guy, his sign says 'if I had a job, I wouldn't be here.' Think about it. He's right! He would be at work."
Politician 2: "Woah, that's deep. And look at that guy he thinks we should 'reclaim our democracy.'"
Politician 1: "I never even considered that! And look! 'Eat the rich.' Wow... just, wow. That could solve so many problems. Time to spring into action!"
Politician 3: "And bring back crystal Pepsi!"

 

[WhoWee]

I did and I did not find the majority of them "stupid"

I think there are few people as qualified as Elizabeth Warren to know what she is talking about here

Wall Street pushes the limits (no argument there) but they don't create the rules.

A little history:
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/s&l/

Add to this the Community Reinvestment Act (Carter) and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act (Clinton) - and you have to reach the conclusion that Government policies are part of the problem.

 

[humanino]

Really?

Yes really. You see, you have to fix a standard as to how intelligent protesters are expected to be. To make it clearer what I mean : there is a double standard if you do not tolerate the current level, but did with the Tea Party. I am just talking from a foreigner perspective.

 

[FlexGunship]

Yes really. You see, you have to fix a standard as to how intelligent protesters are expected to be. To make it clearer what I mean : there is a double standard if you do not tolerate the current level, but did with the Tea Party. I am just talking from a foreigner perspective.

As unintelligible as the Tea Party is during protests, they known when to leave. They make their point (as obnoxious as it might be), and then leave.

I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that there needs to be a minimum or maximum intelligence for protesters. Anyone can protest anything, it's an amazing freedom. But once you've finished the protest and you have NOTHING NEW TO SAY, you should leave... or else you're going to be the target of ridicule and your message will grow weaker and weaker.

I supported this protest (as a registered independent and voting republican)... for about a week.

 

[WhoWee]

As unintelligible as the Tea Party is during protests, they known when to leave. They make their point (as obnoxious as it might be), and then leave.

I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that there needs to be a minimum or maximum intelligence for protesters. Anyone can protest anything, it's an amazing freedom. But once you've finished the protest and you have NOTHING NEW TO SAY, you should leave... or else you're going to be the target of ridicule and your message will grow weaker and weaker.

I supported this protest (as a registered independent and voting republican)... for about a week.

It's also possible (if the crowds remain) the end result will be escalating civil disobedience or ultimately violence and criminal damage, malicious mischief, criminal mischief, and vandalism related property destruction.

http://www.criminalpropertydamage.com/new-york/

 

[FlexGunship]

It's also possible (if the crowds remain) the end result will be escalating civil disobedience or ultimately violence and criminal damage, malicious mischief, criminal mischief, and vandalism related property destruction.

Agreed... strongly. I'd file that under "making your message weaker and weaker."

 

[MarcoD]

It's also possible (if the crowds remain) the end result will be escalating civil disobedience or ultimately violence and criminal damage, malicious mischief, criminal mischief, and vandalism related property destruction.

It's also possible it ends up in one great orgy and you'll thoroughly regret not having been there. Whatever.

 

[WhoWee]

I just heard on the news - yes it was FOX News - that some Government union workers have Columbus Day off and are joining the various protests. Do Government union workers have ANYTHING to protest?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

"Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.

CHART: Federal salaries compared to private-sector
These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Federal pay has become a hot political issue in recent months because of concerns over the federal budget deficit and recession-battered wages in the private sector.

Sen. Scott Brown, R-Mass., made federal pay an issue in his successful campaign to fill Edward Kennedy's seat and is fighting for a pay freeze.

The federal government spent about $224 billion in 2008 on compensation for about 2 million civilian employees."

 

[daveb]

Wall Street pushes the limits (no argument there) but they don't create the rules.

Which is (I think) the crux of many of the OWS protests - that government stop creating rules which allow such "pushing the limit" - the protesters just can't seem to formulate that idea into cogent demands.

 

[WhoWee]

It seems the "movement" finally has a voice and a leader?
http://occupywallst.org/

"Today Liberty Plaza had a visit from Slavoj Zizek"

You can listen to him speak or read the transcripts - enjoy!

*******

Also posted on this site: my bold

"#OccupyWallStreet Union March From Foley Square on Wall Street
Posted Oct. 4, 2011, 8:36 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

On October 05, 2011, at 3:00 in the afternoon the residents of Liberty Square will gather to join their union brothers and sisters in solidarity and march. At 4:30 in the afternoon the 99% will march in solidarity with #occupywallstreet from Foley Square to the Financial District, where their pensions have disappeared to, where their health has disappeared to. Together we will protest this great injustice. We stand in solidarity with the honest workers of:

AFL-CIO (AFSCME)
United NY
Strong Economy for All Coalition
Working Families Party
TWU Local 100
SEIU 1199
CWA 1109
RWDSU
Communications Workers of America
CWA Local 1180
United Auto Workers
United Federation of Teachers
Professional Staff Congress - CUNY
National Nurses United
Writers Guild East
And:

VOCAL-NY
Community Voices Heard
Alliance for Quality Education
New York Communities for Change
Coalition for the Homeless
Neighborhood Economic Development Advocacy Project (NEDAP)
The Job Party
NYC Coalition for Educational Justice
The Mirabal Sisters Cultural and Community Center
The New Deal for New York Campaign
National People's Action
ALIGN
Human Services Council
Labor-Religion Coalition of New York State
Citizen Action of NY
MoveOn.org
Common Cause NY
New Bottom Line
350.org
Tenants & Neighbors
Democracy for NYC
Resource Generation
Tenants PAC
Teachers Unite
Together we will voice our belief that the American dream will live again, that the American way is to help one another succeed. Our voice, our values, will be heard.

Please note: The location of the march has been changed from City Hall to Foley Square."

 

[FlexGunship]

I just heard on the news - yes it was FOX News - that some Government union workers have Columbus Day off and are joining the various protests. Do Government union workers have ANYTHING to protest?

In the past, being a civil servant was a meager life. It was supposed to be a selfless act of devotion to your country and community. Now the guy who delivers my mail gets paid more than I do... and he wears shorts while doing it.

It seems the "movement" finally has a voice and a leader?
http://occupywallst.org/

http://occupywallst.org]The[/PLAIN] American Dream has been stolen from the world. Workers are told that they aren't allowed health care, shelter, food. Students are told that they aren't allowed jobs, and that they will be in debt for the rest of their lives, unable to declare bankruptcy. The 1% has destroyed this nation and its values through their greed. The 1% has stolen this world. We will not allow this to occur.

Woah... who is telling workers that they aren't allowed to have health care, shelter, or food?! Students aren't allowed to have jobs?! Holy crap! Could you imagine making that claim on PhysicsForums. The type of citations you'd need would be of an incredible magnitude!

 

[JDoolin]

I had a post earlier to this effect.

If the "Occupy Wall Street" protest ever had a point, it's long gone now. It's become stale and nonsensical at times. I tried to post some pictures earlier but they got deleted for content and I got an infraction (that should give you a strong indication of how constructive the protests are).

Protests are a FANTASTIC form of civil disobedience, and a great way to promote social change. But, this protest has failed in every way; there is no message and there are no ideas being generated! Seriously, take two seconds out from knee-jerk posting, and look at some of the signs: (http://www.google.com/search?q=occu....,cf.osb&fp=8b758d2393131806&biw=1397&bih=750).

Those pictures are from Google image search. They are the definition of non-partisan. Let's all admit that the protest was a fantastic and incredibly important thing! But that it's way over-ripe now and that the protesters themselves don't have any more answers than anyone else.

I hope they set up camp there and never ever go away until they figure out the right questions, figure out the right answers, and their demands are figured out and and their demands are met. They are the 99%. They may not have the answers, but at least they are on the correct side.

I still think that the comparison to the Tea Party is apt. The Tea Party, mostly focused on the idea that the uber rich have "earned" their money and they should get to keep all of it, are, in my opinion, on the opposite side. They are for the 1% and against the 99%. I bear no personal grudge against any millionaires, but the idea that your typical millionaire actually works fifty times harder than I do, and deserves fifty times as much more compensation, and can be out of debt and be earning money on interest, while I'm swamped under school loans.

Frankly, I don't know the typical millionaire. I don't know if he was born into money, or earned it on wall-street, or owns a company, or whatever. Maybe there are a few that really do work fifty times harder than I do. But I do know people that are worse off than me, who work a lot harder than I do; with minimum wage jobs, and supporting a family.

 

[WhoWee]

I hope they set up camp there and never ever go away until they figure out the right questions, figure out the right answers, and their demands are figured out and and their demands are met. They are the 99%. They may not have the answers, but at least they are on the correct side.

I still think that the comparison to the Tea Party is apt. The Tea Party, mostly focused on the idea that the uber rich have "earned" their money and they should get to keep all of it, are, in my opinion, on the opposite side. They are for the 1% and against the 99%. I bear no personal grudge against any millionaires, but the idea that your typical millionaire actually works fifty times harder than I do, and deserves fifty times as much more compensation, and can be out of debt and be earning money on interest, while I'm swamped under school loans.

Frankly, I don't know the typical millionaire. I don't know if he was born into money, or earned it on wall-street, or owns a company, or whatever. Maybe there are a few that really do work fifty times harder than I do. But I do know people that are worse off than me, who work a lot harder than I do; with minimum wage jobs, and supporting a family.

my bold
I don't think the TEA Party ever put forth a position that the "uber rich have "earned" their money and they should get to keep all of it". I do think the liberal Dems and the mainstream media would prefer you think they did (but they didn't).

 

[FlexGunship]

I hope they set up camp there and never ever go away until they figure out the right questions, figure out the right answers, and their demands are figured out and and their demands are met. They are the 99%. They may not have the answers, but at least they are on the correct side.

Well, the problem is that it doesn't do anything. At the risk of sounding evil, maybe that's how they ended up unemployed? Maybe instead of figuring out the system and how to work inside of it, they just complained a lot? I work with people like that... and I suspect they'll get fired the next time belts are tightened... and I suspect they'll complain about it.

But I do know people that are worse off than me, who work a lot harder than I do; with minimum wage jobs, and supporting a family.

Give them some of your money. Isn't that EXACTLY the idea you're supporting? Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[WhoWee]

I took a few notes from a PBS broadcast about it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec11/wallstreet_10-05.html

A surprisingly clean, well-organized and well-stocked community has emerged, with its own library, plentiful supplies of food, even blankets and ponchos from well-wishers nation-wide, and a house-keeping and security system that impressed even the city police.

The goals are noticeably less well-organized.

Childhood labor, international labor issues, sweatshops. They should not be talking about

I do not want to be groped on in the airport, I do not want to give my children bad water, artificial flavors, pesticides. i do not want to

Behind the profit motive is Greed, and this greed has become a disease across the planet.

What I gather from my careful and insightful interviews, there is no central message, and that's okay; groups like the tea-party are created through messaging. Being in the boardroom and figuring out how they can finance a political movement and come up with slogans which are catchy. Here, people are coming from all over the country, try to figure out something to do. So their message is that they want to provoke discussion about financial injustice.

One frequent theme, though young people, out of work, even with college degrees, but financed by debt.

"I went to school, and now that we're out completely and we can't pay those loans back, and all we hear from the creditors is 'you're lazy' 'you're not doing your part' but we're looking for work, we can't go on unemployment. We're pre-unemployed."

The economic system is being run for the few at the expense of the many. As American's we're about fairness ; about fair play. But there's a sense now that some people are not given a chance to compete.

I know a lot of people in general out of work for two or three years, and it's hard for them to feed their families. All our jobs are overseas. The companies are moving overseas where they can pay slave labor.

George Carlin: "The American Dream: You have to be asleep to believe it"

Is the American dream over? "Bingo"

My generation is going to be the first who's children aren't better off than we are.

"It's not just about the American dream. It's about the world dream. We're here because there are economic issues that are linked throughout the whole entire world."

This is only going to spread, and its all kinds of people. It's the 99% who have a boot on their neck from the 1% who occupy the buildings surrounding this plaza.

There were drum circles, debate circles, and throughout, a festive atmosphere, which reminded people of the age of Aquarius.

147 occupation protests across the united states, 136 last night, 117 th night before that, 71 the night before that, it's accelerating.

The future of this occupation, like the futures of the lives of the people who are compelling it, is in limbo.

I think it's important for the "movement" to be clear about their intentions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/occupation?show=0&t=1318271776

"a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : seizure
b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force
c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it"

Is this legal in America?

***
The http://occupywallst.org/ website clearly states:
"We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants."

There was a great deal of property damage and violence associated with the Arab Spring - wasn't there? Is this "movement" a terror risk given the number of arrests thus far?

***

Update on Arab Spring
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/10/501364/main20118059.shtml

"CAIRO - A violent night of rioting in Egypt's capital that left 26 dead, most of them Christians who were trying to stage a peaceful protest over an attack on a church, will likely prompt the nation's ruling military to further tighten its grip on power.

Egypt's Coptic church blasted authorities Monday for allowing repeated attacks on Christians with impunity. As CBS' "60 Minutes" reported Sunday night, the military has been arresting activists by the thousands, outlawing strikes and clamping down on journalists."
***

Again - be careful what you wish for and ask yourself this - if riots break out on the streets of America - what will President Obama do?

 

[FlexGunship]

147 occupation protests across the united states, 136 last night, 117 th night before that, 71 the night before that, it's accelerating.

Actually, if you plot it... it has a distinctly negative second derivative. It's actually decelerating but still has a positive velocity.

 

[humanino]

Actually, if you plot it... it has a distinctly negative second derivative. It's actually decelerating but still has a positive velocity.

And what would you expect if you plotted this same observable but in imaginary conditions (Monte-Carlo simulation) where every single individual would end up in the street ? I mean, there is a finite number of (large) cities where people gather, so your plot must be bounded from above even in theory.

Another question : there are other countries (like Canada, or Germany say for instance) which have (according to US standards) left leaning policies (for taxes, social net...). Many of those other countries have not contributed to the current recession (or whatever you want to call it) as much as the US, and have also navigated it with more stability. What if the message was simply "could we not try to learn something from the other countries" ? Would that be a reasonable position to hold ?

 

[FlexGunship]

Another question : there are other countries (like Canada, or Germany say for instance) which have (according to US standards) left leaning policies (for taxes, social net...). Many of those other countries have not contributed to the current recession (or whatever you want to call it) as much as the US, and have also navigated it with more stability. What if the message was simply "could we not try to learn something from the other countries" ? Would that be a reasonable position to hold ?

"Europe in financial collapse domino" http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/10/10/58493893.html
"Euro crisis spreads and puts the world economy at risk" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/09/g20-finance-ministers-euro-crisis?newsfeed=true
"As crisis widens, Europe's leaders keep talking" http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/10/8253722-as-crisis-widens-europes-leaders-keep-talking

If Europe is doing better than the U.S. they sure don't know it. Even Canada is considering a States-style bailout: (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...soon-for-economic-stimulus-in-canada-flaherty).

 

[WhoWee]

And what would you expect if you plotted this same observable but in imaginary conditions (Monte-Carlo simulation) where every single individual would end up in the street ? I mean, there is a finite number of (large) cities where people gather, so your plot must be bounded from above even in theory.

Another question : there are other countries (like Canada, or Germany say for instance) which have (according to US standards) left leaning policies (for taxes, social net...). Many of those other countries have not contributed to the current recession (or whatever you want to call it) as much as the US, and have also navigated it with more stability. What if the message was simply "could we not try to learn something from the other countries" ? Would that be a reasonable position to hold ?

One of our local radio stations carries Rush Limbaugh at noon - during the broadcast they allow (apparently free?) counter points/opinions in commercial time slots - they're promoting a local occupation and have somewhere between 30 and 50 people scheduled to attend. This is an MSA with nearly 700,000 people.

 

[skippy1729]

One of our local radio stations carries Rush Limbaugh at noon - during the broadcast they allow (apparently free?) counter points/opinions in commercial time slots - they're promoting a local occupation and have somewhere between 30 and 50 people scheduled to attend. This is an MSA with nearly 700,000 people.

I wish I could listen to these counter points/opinions but I live in one of the few "Rush free" areas of the country (the high desert of New Mexico). I am sure it would be a hoot! I have to listen to the MSNBC branch of the DNC to find out where their head is at.

By the way, if these protesters can keep it up long enough I believe that they have the potential to give the president's re-election campaign the same boost that the Yippies and the SDS gave to Humphrey in 1968.

Skippy

 

[daveb]

"Europe in financial collapse domino" http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/10/10/58493893.html
"Euro crisis spreads and puts the world economy at risk" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/09/g20-finance-ministers-euro-crisis?newsfeed=true
"As crisis widens, Europe's leaders keep talking" http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/10/8253722-as-crisis-widens-europes-leaders-keep-talking

If Europe is doing better than the U.S. they sure don't know it. Even Canada is considering a States-style bailout: (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...soon-for-economic-stimulus-in-canada-flaherty).

Since when is Europe a country? humanino said countries like Germany or Canada, he did not say Europe. Also, he said contributed to the recession; he didn't say are being affected by (and as far as Canada, the link you provided says Canada is actually doing fine right now).

 

[mheslep]

During the recent recession some other countries, especially Germany and Ireland, have implemented policies distinctly to the right of the US. Germany was very stingy with any stimulus despite encouragement by the US's Geitner to do more, and Ireland has implemented austerity policies which appear to have just begun to pay off.

Germany, however, is taking the opposite approach. Rather than take on even more debt to ramp up the economy, Chancellor Angela Merkel wants to set an example for Europe on how to cut spending and reduce budget deficits. Her government is currently looking into ways to make significant spending cuts. Many economists in Europe even view deficit and debt reduction as a key precursor to economic growth.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,697132,00.html

 

[russ_watters]

How stupid would it be to talk about them for 11 pages otherwise ? Either your radio is a serious news organization reporting worthy events, hence you quote it here; or your radio wastes your time with useless hippy slogans, in which case you should question the media you listen to.

Publicity = legitimacy is crackpot logic 101, not to mention you are using the news coverage as a sign of legitimacy while decrying the apparent fact that the news isn't taking them seriously!

 

[WhoWee]

How does anyone take this guy seriously?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?_r=2&src=tp&smid=fb-share

"Consider first how Republican politicians have portrayed the modest-sized if growing demonstrations, which have involved some confrontations with the police — confrontations that seem to have involved a lot of police overreaction — but nothing one could call a riot. And there has in fact been nothing so far to match the behavior of Tea Party crowds in the summer of 2009."

I challenge EVERYONE to post arrest results from TEA Party events (which occurred over a much longer time frame) that exceed the number of arrests already accumulated during the Occupy protests.

 

[MarcoD]

Since when is Europe a country? humanino said countries like Germany or Canada, he did not say Europe. Also, he said contributed to the recession; he didn't say are being affected by (and as far as Canada, the link you provided says Canada is actually doing fine right now).

Europe by and large did the same as the US, they bailed out the banks which held bad US investment with money. (My own country went to 45% to 60% in 2008.) After that, the cascade began because some countries have a large debt, money became expensive, and their debt problem became apparent.

Face it, you US guys owe me money.

 

[WhoWee]

Publicity = legitimacy is crackpot logic 101, not to mention you are using the news coverage as a sign of legitimacy while decrying the apparent fact that the news isn't taking them seriously!

Unfortunately, (usually otherwise credible http://timryan.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1) Democrats are trying to spin this to their favor. my bold
http://business-journal.com/occupy-protest-today-at-ohio-statehouse-p20151-1.htm

""Youngstown and the surrounding areas have been plagued by intolerance and immoral business practices, which have corroded the jewel that this great city once was," writes one Occupy Youngstown organizer. You have thousands of 'today's' left to enjoy in your future, but let your 'tomorrow' be remembered as the day you changed your country. ... The revolutionaries that endured the harsh winters, traversed the greatest military force of the 18th century, and declared our sovereignty to secure the future of this great country didn't do so envisioning a future where the few prosper at the expense of the majority. They labored to construct the liberation of all."

The comparison to the American Revolution by Occupy protestors is not unlike how Tea Party demonstrators depicted themselves during their rallies last year. But is the Occupy Movement a left-wing counterpart to the right-win Tea Party?

U.S. Rep. Tim Ryan believes Occupy's focus on economic inequality rather than big government, socialism and whether "Barack Obama was not born in America or all this nonsense that came out of the Tea Party movement" -- is the significant difference.

"The Tea Party movement was primarily older, whiter," Ryan says, where the Occupy movement "has really broad appeal because there are so many people who are unemployed or underemployed." Among students and youth, unemployment is near 20%, he continues. "All this all leads to high, high levels of discontent. People are squeezed and they don't know what else to do but go to the streets and start protesting.""

 

[mheslep]

How does anyone take this guy seriously?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?_r=2&src=tp&smid=fb-share

"Consider first how Republican politicians have portrayed the modest-sized if growing demonstrations, which have involved some confrontations with the police — confrontations that seem to have involved a lot of police overreaction — but nothing one could call a riot. And there has in fact been nothing so far to match the behavior of Tea Party crowds in the summer of 2009."

I challenge EVERYONE to post arrest results from TEA Party events (which occurred over a much longer time frame) that exceed the number of arrests already accumulated during the Occupy protests.

I think you are missing Krugman's (ridiculous) point which I believe is as follows: the accusations of one day racist slurs against members of Congress, never filmed or recorded, and the odd crackpot Obama=The Joker sign are far, far worse (assumed) behaviors than any amount of filmed and recorded illegal behavior by the Occupiers.

 

[daveb]

I challenge EVERYONE to post arrest results from TEA Party events (which occurred over a much longer time frame) that exceed the number of arrests already accumulated during the Occupy protests.

I'm not sure anyone here takes that part of what he said seriously (well, some might, but I certainly don't), but his point is still valid - why is the right criticizing the protests? Unfortunately, he (Krugman) doesn't realize the hypocrisy - the answer is because the left criticized TEA Party protests (but now supports these protests). Basically, both sides are being hypocrites if they criticize one protest but not the other. (And yes, need it be said this is IMO?)

 

[WhoWee]

I'm not sure anyone here takes that part of what he said seriously (well, some might, but I certainly don't), but his point is still valid - why is the right criticizing the protests? Unfortunately, he (Krugman) doesn't realize the hypocrisy - the answer is because the left criticized TEA Party protests (but now supports these protests). Basically, both sides are being hypocrites if they criticize one protest but not the other. (And yes, need it be said this is IMO?)

This might be why?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/10/national/main20118120.shtml

"DES MOINES, Iowa - More than 30 Occupy Iowa protesters have been arrested in front of the Iowa Statehouse, reports CBS Affiliate KCCI."

 

[JDoolin]

Well, the problem is that it doesn't do anything. At the risk of sounding evil, maybe that's how they ended up unemployed? Maybe instead of figuring out the system and how to work inside of it, they just complained a lot? I work with people like that... and I suspect they'll get fired the next time belts are tightened... and I suspect they'll complain about it.



Give them some of your money. Isn't that EXACTLY the idea you're supporting? Put your money where your mouth is.

I don't HAVE any money. I have debt. I am working and I am able to afford an apartment and pay interest on my loans.

In any case, what I see is YOU complaining about your fellow workers. I see YOU hoping that they are fired "next time the belt is tightened." You see that belt-tightening as inevitable; even a good thing.

I can't really tell, from what you are saying, whether you are legitimately complaining about other people's work ethic, or if you've just figured out how to work the system; primarily griping about other people, tearing them down, so you'll look better to whoever your working for, or perhaps just feel better about yourself?