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Borek
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player1_1_1 said:majority was always against him.
Actually at least once majority was for, not against - he was elected.
player1_1_1 said:majority was always against him.
Frame Dragger said:The GERMANS called him a "potato?!
Yes, and in public, and on signs and posters being waved around by racists at so-called Tea Parties.Borek said:In 2006.
American president is being called much worse names on the daily basis, isn't he? I am afraid that's part of the job description.
turbo-1 said:Yes, and in public, and on signs and posters being waved around by racists at so-called Tea Parties.
To be fair the Germans are rather fond of potatos - it's like an American calling you a hamburger, you aren't sure if you should be offended or not!Frame Dragger said:The GERMANS called him a "potato?!
mgb_phys said:To be fair the Germans are rather fond of potatos - it's like an American calling you a hamburger, you aren't sure if you should be offended or not!
How about if someone from Hamburg called you... never mind.Frame Dragger said:I'm insulted if it's someone from Frankfurter calling me a Hamburger!
turbo-1 said:How about if someone from Hamburg called you... never mind.
Yep, all the time:turbo-1 said:Yes, and in public, and on signs and posters being waved around by racists at so-called Tea Parties.
Still, it's better than over here. At least you're not calling for a ban on airplanes.Borek said:Report is devastating for Polish side.
turbo-1 said:We got a truncated version of that on the news last night, Borek. The repost cited unreasonable pressure on the cockpit crew to land, but no details about how and why such pressure might have been applied.
For what it is worth I'd say with that statement and the frank report you and yours rise above the usual games played by third world countries, as recognizing a problem is the first step to fixing them. The third world country as we know lays blame on dis, dat, and d' otta ting.Borek said:Final MAK report: http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2010/files/tu154m_101/finalreport_eng.pdf
Report is devastating for Polish side - which is unfortunately not surprising, Polish investigation (not finished yet) points at the same problems with flight preparation and procedures. They should not try to land, some say they should even not start from Warsaw. Sad. I must admit I feel ashamed, it pushes us too far in the direction of some 3rd world country.
mheslep said:recognizing a problem is the first step to fixing them
While first world countries blame the dead pilots and then classify everything top secret - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Scotland_RAF_Chinook_crashmheslep said:The third world country as we know lays blame on dis, dat, and d' otta ting.
Please point out where everything was classified top secret, I don't see it.NobodySpecial said:While first world countries blame the dead pilots and then classify everything top secret - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Scotland_RAF_Chinook_crash
RAF documents saying that the new engine management software was crap - but they didn't want to say anything in case it upset their allies were leaked to the press, but the inquiry ruled they were inadmissible because they couldn't be published. A bunch of FoI requests by the family of the pilots have been rejected for various 'commercially sensitive' and 'national security' reasons.Evo said:Please point out where everything was classified top secret, I don't see it.
Don't. All it really proves is politicians in Poland are so arrogant that they think they are more powerful and important than the weather. I doubt anyone would be surprised to learn that Polish politicians are the same as politicians in other countries!Borek said:Sad. I must admit I feel ashamed, it pushes us too far in the direction of some 3rd world country.
I'm not sure about that.russ_watters said:Don't. All it really proves is politicians in Poland are so arrogant that they think they are more powerful and important than the weather. I doubt anyone would be surprised to learn that Polish politicians are the same as politicians in other countries!
In particular in countries with a strong authoritarian streak.russ_watters said:That's easier said than done sometimes, arildno - whether the pilot is in charge or not, the politician still has the power to destroy their career.
russ_watters said:That's easier said than done sometimes, arildno - whether the pilot is in charge or not, the politician still has the power to destroy their career.
Andre said:It is not uncommon to practice trial approaches. Air Traffic control is not to prohibit that for safety concerns. They can however prohibit an aircraft to land, but this is only done normally if the runway is unsuitable to land, icing, aqua plaining etc etc. Weather is not a reason to prohibit such. I'm sorry, but I have to remark that I don't think that air traffic control could be blamed for anything.
Borek said:I don't know enough about details, so I am mostly repeating what was told by people that I usually find reasonable. There is some ambiguity and confusion here. There is some difference between military and civilian airports, and military and civilian flights. This is a military airport and from what I understand ATC had the option to close it (and if it was any Russian military flight they would be told to fly somewhere else), but he was afraid of doing it to avoid the scandal. He tried to contact his superiors calling them in Moscow, looking for help, but they never answered his calls.
Note that this confusion is part of the problem. Polish side asked for details about procedures that should be applied, as information our experts got from Russians was incomplete and they wanted to clarify the situation. Russians never gave them access to documents where these procedures are described. That's the simplest method of starting speculation that they are hiding something, even if they don't.
Final report of the Committee for Investigation of National Aviation Accidents into the causes and circumstances of the Tu-154M plane crash (tail number 101) in Smoleńsk
On 29 July 2011 the Committee for Investigation of National Aviation Accidents presented the final report into the causes and circumstances of the Tu-154M plane crash (tail number 101) in Smoleńsk.
It is not the Committee's responsibility to find anyone guilty or hold anyone responsible for the plane crash. The aim of the Committee was to determinate the circumstances and causes of the plane crash, draft recommendations and draw conclusions on how to avoid such accidents in the future.
On the basis of the studies and analysis performed, the Committee established that the immediate cause of the accident was the descent below the minimum descent altitude at an excessive rate of descent in weather conditions which prevented visual contact with the ground, as well as a delayed execution of the go-around procedure. Those circumstances led to an impact on a terrain obstacle resulting in separation of a part of the left wing with aileron and consequently to the loss of aircraft control and eventual ground impact.
Circumstances Contributing to the Accident
3.2.3. Conducive circumstances
- Failure to monitor altitude by means of a pressure altimeter during a non-precision approach;
- failure by the crew to respond to the PULL UP warning generated by the TAWS;
- attempt to execute the go-around maneuver under the control of ABSU (automatic go-around);
- Approach Control confirming to the crew the correct position of the airplane in relation to the RWY threshold, glide slope, and course which might have affirmed the crew's belief that the approach was proceeding correctly although the airplane was actually outside the permissible deviation margin;
- failure by landing zone controller (LZC)to inform the crew about descending below the glide slope and delayed issuance of the level-out command;
- incorrect training of the Tu-154M flight crews in the 36 Regiment.
- incorrect coordination of the crew's work, which placed an excessive burden on the aircraft commander in the final phase of the flight;
- insufficient flight preparation of the crew;
- the crew‘s insufficient knowledge of the airplane's systems and their limitations;
- inadequate cross-monitoring among the crew members and failure to respond to the mistakes committed;
- crew composition inadequate for the task;
- ineffective immediate supervision of the 36 Regiment's flight training process by the Air Force Command;
- failure by the 36 Regiment to develop procedures governing the crew's actions in the event of:
- failure to meet the established approach criteria;
- using radio altimeter for establishing alarm altitude values for various types of approach;
- distribution of duties in a multi-crew flight.
- sporadic performance of flight support duties by LZC over the last 12 months, in particular under difficult Weather Conditions, and lack of practical experience as LZC at the SMOLENSK NORTH airfield.
...A moment later, CC set his WBE-SWS altimeter to the standard pressure of 1013 hPa. It caused TAWS to receive wrong data and, in effect, the system inhibited generation of warnings, assuming that the aircraft was higher up than in reality.
At 0628:47, at an altitude of 2,176 m, the aircraft commander‘s VBE-SVS altimeter was switched from standard pressure to another setting (judging by the discussion between crew members, to 993 hPa, which was the barometric pressure at airfield level, and from that point barometric altimeters read altitudes in reference to the runway)
At 0640:14.5 at an RA altitude of 366 m (297m above airfield level, at a distance of 4,768 m from RWY 26 threshold), at a speed of 309 km/h, the VBE-SVS altimeter of the aircraft commander was switched to standard pressure of 1,013 hPa.
Immediately afterwards, at 0640:15 – at RA altitude of 366 m, 295 m above airfield level, at 4,724 m from RWY 26 threshold, TAWS stopped generating the TERRAIN AHEAD message.
The pilot who lead this tragic flight was the second pilot in the flight to Tbilisi. One of presidents men (Gosiewski) actually tried to prosecute the first pilot for cowardice and refusal to perform presidential order.russ_watters said:That's easier said than done sometimes, arildno - whether the pilot is in charge or not, the politician still has the power to destroy their career.
Czcibor said:The pilot who lead this tragic flight was the second pilot in the flight to Tbilisi. One of presidents men (Gosiewski) actually tried to prosecute the first pilot for cowardice and refusal to perform presidential order.
Andre said:The essential mistake was almost certainly a very old mistake, a wrong altimeter setting.