Question about Field Strength of Solenoid Positioned Near a Magnet

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Hi, I've been working on a solenoid design and was wondering if I have this configuration, how would the strength of the solenoid (specifically the south pole) be affected by the permanent magnet? Would it potentially gain strength, or would it result in a loss? Assume minimal distance between magnet and solenoid.
Screenshot 2023-12-29 151603.png
 
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Welcome to PF.

They would add linearly, unless the magnet were free to move under the influence of the magnetic field from the solenoid. In that case you would need to analyze the differential equations for the movement of the magnet and the induced EMF in the solenoid.

Can you say more about what you are trying to do or analyze?
 
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  • #3
berkeman said:
Welcome to PF.

They would add linearly, unless the magnet were free to move under the influence of the magnetic field from the solenoid. In that case you would need to analyze the differential equations for the movement of the magnet and the induced EMF in the solenoid.

Can you say more about what you are trying to do or analyze?
Hi berkeman, thanks for the reply. I should have added that both the magnet and solenoid would be fixed. The purpose would be to increase the strength of the solenoid's south pole (if possible).
 
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Are you trying to attract a ferrous slug cylinder into the solenoid, and wanting to increase the attractive force? The more you can say about what you want to do, the more we can offer as helpful suggestions and calculations. :smile:
 
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  • #5
berkeman said:
Are you trying to attract a ferrous slug cylinder into the solenoid, and wanting to increase the attractive force? The more you can say about what you want to do, the more we can offer as helpful suggestions and calculations.
I haven't finalized the design of the valve yet but yes essentially I want to increase the attraction force of the south end of the solenoid for the purpose of an on/off valve. I want the strength of the solenoid to be as much as possible, therefore giving the off position a better seal.
 
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Okay, are you using a spring to do the return/ON position? Can you post an updated diagram that shows your full assembly with dimensions and all 3/4/5
pieces? Thanks.
 
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  • #7
The valve design is in more of a conceptual state right now. I'm more concerned about the strength of the solenoid, I've tried in the past to make a water tight seal with magnets alone, but it ended up leaking ( RC submarine, not good lol). Would you say your confident that the inclusion of the permanent magnet results in a stronger magnetic field for the solenoid?
 
  • #8
JayAshby said:
Would you say your confident that the inclusion of the permanent magnet results in a stronger magnetic field for the solenoid?
Sure. If you are only concerned with increasing the attractive force, then adding a DC magnet to the solenoid pull-in force will increase it. But obviously that makes it harder to release the solenoid, so that's why you don't usually see a DC magnet as part of the solenoid assembly.
 
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  • #9
Oh true, that's a good point, I wasn't thinking about the release as much. Thanks for the candor.
 
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  • #10
You should examine the engineering of solenoidal relays (and water valves). The magic words are "magnetic circuit".

In addition the fluidics for most water valves (for water at pressure) use the magnet to control a small water flow which drives a diaphragm actuated valve. The engineering is very clever indeed.

Study what's been done.
 

Related to Question about Field Strength of Solenoid Positioned Near a Magnet

What factors determine the field strength of a solenoid?

The field strength of a solenoid is primarily determined by the number of turns of wire, the current passing through the wire, the length of the solenoid, and the permeability of the core material. Increasing the number of turns or the current will increase the field strength, while increasing the length of the solenoid will decrease it. Using a core material with higher magnetic permeability can also enhance the field strength.

How does the presence of a nearby magnet affect the field strength of a solenoid?

The presence of a nearby magnet can either enhance or weaken the field strength of a solenoid, depending on the orientation and polarity of the magnet relative to the solenoid. If the magnetic fields are aligned in the same direction, they can reinforce each other, increasing the net field strength. Conversely, if they are aligned in opposite directions, they can partially cancel each other out, reducing the net field strength.

Can the distance between the solenoid and the magnet affect the solenoid's field strength?

Yes, the distance between the solenoid and the magnet can significantly affect the solenoid's field strength. As the distance between them decreases, the interaction between their magnetic fields becomes stronger, leading to a more pronounced effect on the solenoid's field strength. Conversely, increasing the distance reduces the interaction, diminishing the effect.

What role does the core material of the solenoid play when positioned near a magnet?

The core material of the solenoid plays a crucial role in determining how the solenoid's field interacts with a nearby magnet. A core material with high magnetic permeability, such as iron, can concentrate and enhance the magnetic field within the solenoid. This can amplify the interaction with the nearby magnet, either strengthening or weakening the overall field, depending on the relative orientation of the fields.

How can you experimentally measure the field strength of a solenoid near a magnet?

To experimentally measure the field strength of a solenoid near a magnet, you can use a Hall effect sensor or a Gaussmeter. Place the sensor at various points around the solenoid and record the magnetic field readings. By comparing these readings with and without the presence of the nearby magnet, you can determine the effect of the magnet on the solenoid's field strength. Ensure that the setup is stable and that external magnetic influences are minimized for accurate measurements.

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