Rant about working in the tutoring lab: How should I deal with this?

[PhDeezNutz]

I work at my alma mater in the tutoring lab as a math and physics tutor (usually at the 3000 or below level). The tutoring lab is a walk in service where you have

1) to sign in (and out) through computers at the front desk

2) Sit down at a table

3) scan a QR code with an app at that table

4) choose through a menu what classes you want tutoring in

5) wait in the que system to be served

6) all activities in the lab are recorded via security cameras (with no audio)

7) Also exit through particularly designated doors

Moving past the background onto my actual grievance.

There is a (large) group of students who not only frequently disregard the aforementioned rules. Particularly signing in and exiting through designated doors but also cause an unreasonable amount of noise to the point other visitors have expressed frustration (muttering under their breath etc without making formal complaints).

Not to mention anti semetic remarks and condescending remarks towards Shiite Muslims. Practicing wrestling moves in the lab etc.

All of this is frequent/common behavior for them.

I talked to my supervisors about kicking them out on the spot and apparently I have to jump through many hoops to do this.

1) request that they be quiet (which I have done many times to no avail)

2) notify my direct supervisors so they can double down on the request

3) then appeal to supervisors at a higher level (I.e. bureaucracy). The problem with this is that they work from home. How am I supposed to appeal to them when they work from home the majority of time and not actually in the lab?

(As an aside most of these bureaucrats preside over the tutoring lab and it’s various programs without having any domain expertise themselves. How useless is a PhD in education when students come in to ask questions about differential forms and Tensors? Can you really Marshall resources better than someone with a quantitative background?)

Why do I have to be “tactful, respectful, and understanding” (all of these words are platitudes in my opinion) when they can’t exhibit a modicum of consideration towards their fellow students?

My assumption (and this may be hyper aggressive) is that if a group of people are willing to be that much of jerks, they are willing to be confrontational about being confronted.

I did confront them many times and at one point I just had enough. I told them “all of you need to chill you’re too loud, nobody thinks you’re cool” and they left in mass towards the end of the semester. Fellow students actually thanked me. My supervisor actually told me if they put a hand on me and I retaliate I will be fired which is insane to me but also an edge case. And also calling the campus police is supposedly a last option after I’ve exhausted all the other steps of protocol.

I should also add that they’ve been asked to leave other parts of the library by campus police.

If I have to deal with this another semester I think I’m going to lose it.

I don’t care if I have to go above my (mostly worthless) supervisors to the police or whatever relevant dean. I’m not putting up with this inconsiderate socially retarded bullying behavior for another semester. I’m taking a stand.

Which avenues should I go through? In regards to talking to administrators that are even higher up in the university organization? Since clearly my direct higher ups (with few exceptions) are completely inept/opportunistic cowardly bureaucrats?

should I write emails to the dean of students/president/vice President directly throwing my inept cowardly often absent higher ups under the bus?

Should I draw the line after multiple attempts to be tactful, verbally thrash these students thoroughly, and deal with the consequences later?

How can I do my job if I don’t have the authority to maintain order? Generally I need advice.

 

[topsquark]

I work at my alma mater in the tutoring lab as a math and physics tutor (usually at the 3000 or below level). The tutoring lab is a walk in service where you have

1) to sign in (and out) through computers at the front desk

2) Sit down at a table

3) scan a QR code with an app at that table

4) choose through a menu what classes you want tutoring in

5) wait in the que system to be served

6) all activities in the lab are recorded via security cameras (with no audio)

7) Also exit through particularly designated doors

Moving past the background onto my actual grievance.

There is a (large) group of students who not only frequently disregard the aforementioned rules. Particularly signing in and exiting through designated doors but also cause an unreasonable amount of noise to the point other visitors have expressed frustration (muttering under their breath etc without making formal complaints).

Not to mention anti semetic remarks and condescending remarks towards Shiite Muslims. Practicing wrestling moves in the lab etc.

All of this is frequent/common behavior for them.

I talked to my supervisors about kicking them out on the spot and apparently I have to jump through many hoops to do this.

1) request that they be quiet (which I have done many times to no avail)

2) notify my direct supervisors so they can double down on the request

3) then appeal to supervisors at a higher level (I.e. bureaucracy). The problem with this is that they work from home. How am I supposed to appeal to them when they work from home the majority of time and not actually in the lab?

(As an aside most of these bureaucrats preside over the tutoring lab and it’s various programs without having any domain expertise themselves. How useless is a PhD in education when students come in to ask questions about differential forms and Tensors? Can you really Marshall resources better than someone with a quantitative background?)

Why do I have to be “tactful, respectful, and understanding” (all of these words are platitudes in my opinion) when they can’t exhibit a modicum of consideration towards their fellow students?

My assumption (and this may be hyper aggressive) is that if a group of people are willing to be that much of jerks, they are willing to be confrontational about being confronted.

I did confront them many times and at one point I just had enough. I told them “all of you need to chill you’re too loud, nobody thinks you’re cool” and they left in mass towards the end of the semester. Fellow students actually thanked me. My supervisor actually told me if they put a hand on me and I retaliate I will be fired which is insane to me but also an edge case. And also calling the campus police is supposedly a last option after I’ve exhausted all the other steps of protocol.

I should also add that they’ve been asked to leave other parts of the library by campus police.

If I have to deal with this another semester I think I’m going to lose it.

I don’t care if I have to go above my (mostly worthless) supervisors to the police or whatever relevant dean. I’m not putting up with this inconsiderate socially retarded bullying behavior for another semester. I’m taking a stand.

Which avenues should I go through? In regards to talking to administrators that are even higher up in the university organization? Since clearly my direct higher ups (with few exceptions) are completely inept/opportunistic cowardly bureaucrats?

should I write emails to the dean of students/president/vice President directly throwing my inept cowardly often absent higher ups under the bus?

Should I draw the line after multiple attempts to be tactful, verbally thrash these students thoroughly, and deal with the consequences later?

How can I do my job if I don’t have the authority to maintain order? Generally I need advice.

If you think that the Campus police aren't an option and your supervisors won't help, up it to the Department Head. If that's not a good option, then head for the Dean. Try not to get into a fight, but I find it inexcusable that you have been told if you defend yourself that you will be fired. I'm not advocating actually throwing a punch, but you do have a right to defend yourself.

If you want a bit more input, skip the e-mails. I prefer the personal touch. Go straight to the bosses: the secretaries! (In actuality, they run everything and can make sure you get in contact with the right people as quickly as possible.)

-Dan

 

[PhDeezNutz]

I’ll bring it up at the next meeting. There’s been some organizational changes as of late but I presume weekly briefings/meetings will continue. If not I’ll do exactly what you suggested. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Sorry if it was self indulgent. It just amazes me that 20 year olds can be loud, oblivious, racists who frequently disregard protocol.

 

[strangerep]

1) to sign in (and out) through computers at the front desk

2) Sit down at a table

3) scan a QR code with an app at that table

4) choose through a menu what classes you want tutoring in

5) wait in the que system to be served

6) all activities in the lab are recorded via security cameras (with no audio)

7) Also exit through particularly designated doors

There is a (large) group of students who not only frequently disregard the aforementioned rules. Particularly signing in and exiting through designated doors but also cause an unreasonable amount of noise to the point other visitors have expressed frustration (muttering under their breath etc without making formal complaints). [...]

I don't quite understand the protocol. If they don't sign in, then... do they still get to scan a QR code and wait in the queue to be served? If so, there's the problem right there. Bad behaviour needs to attract instant unpleasant consequences.

There should be a system of warning/infraction points like here at PF. Once sufficient points are accumulated, they are banned from the tutoring lab for a determined period of time.

Are they ill-behaved only while waiting in the queue? Or also when being helped?

 

[PhDeezNutz]

You can sign in and study there without actually scanning a QR code for help. It’s common actually.

Their poor behavior extends beyond merely not signing in/out and exiting through . They are in a large group and you can hear their boisterous conversations from across the (very large) room. To the point that other visitors have visibly expressed their agitation.

I have requested that they lower their voices on many occasions and to no avail. Except for that one time that I told them “you need to chill, you are way too loud!”.

I fully agree that their should be a formal penalty system to hold people accountable. However implementing it is a problem when my hands are tied; I can’t document these incidences when they don’t even sign in.

The girl at the front desk is a 5 foot tall girl and she’s helpless against them. They’ve been told to sign in only to pretend to sign in and ignore it.

I’m not always there to enforce it.

I’m gonna keep my head on a swivel and the next time it happens I’m going to confront them and tell them straight up that they need to get out. If that means bypassing the procedures I’m “supposed to follow” then so be it. I’ll deal with the consequences later. It’s a disservice to fellow students not to address this. These procedures were written by spineless absent bureaucrats anyway.

Additionally I was thinking I could get fellow students to make formal complaints.

I’m just sick and tired of pandering to the loud/socially unaware. How can you possibly conflate a study area with a bar/club? I try to be understanding but even I wasn’t that socially unaware when I was 20 years old.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Also I do not throw around the words “bigot” or “racist” lightly. I know these days those words have been overused to the point of being meaningless, this is not one of those cases.

 

[Frabjous]

Document everything and report up the chain everytime via email. After a sufficient number of incidents, try the alternative chains of command.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Document everything and report up the chain everytime via email. After a sufficient number of incidents, try the alternative chains of command.

Good idea. Usually I could use the attendance system along with the cameras to find out the identities of the students but given that they frequently don’t sign in I can’t do that.

I’ll find other ways to document it such as writing a list of incidences in a notebook.

Thank you.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Is your objection that you are expected to keep order and don't have the support? Or is it that you are not expected to keep order but you can't do your job because those who are responsible aren't doing their jobs? Which way to proceed probably depends on the problem you are trying to solve.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Is your objection that you are expected to keep order and don't have the support? Or is it that you are not expected to keep order but you can't do your job because those who are responsible aren't doing their jobs? Which way to proceed probably depends on the problem you are trying to solve.

Good distinction.

I am expected to keep order. My peers are also expected to keep order. Sometimes but not often I’m the one with the highest position in the lab (as in I’m left in charge for short periods of time) and my hands are still tied.

But to really take action I am not allowed to act immediately but rather I have to go through many hoops

- Filing incident reports (hard to do when they don’t sign in at the front)

- Having directors intervene and make additional warnings of bad behavior/ask them to leave (these directors often work from home) etc.

- I have to go through like 4 levels of bureaucracy to get them kicked out and even more to get them banned.

- apparently I’m not allowed to call campus police

I’m repeating myself but humor me.

So maybe in practice I am not expected to keep order. Maybe I should ask this question explicitly to my bosses and see what they say. My guess is that they’ll act like a deer in headlights and give a “safe” diplomatic non-answer.

 

[hutchphd]

If the situation is as bad as you say, there are almost certainly other people who equally disgusted. You need to be in touch with them discreetly. Make an appointment and have a private chat. A formal letter could follow if necessary, but a "heads up" meeting is a friendlier jesture.
Who do you work for? In particular who is your supervisor and in what power structure is he/she enmeshed? Where does the money come from? You need to really understand all this. I absolutely stand by the notion that department secretaries almost always know more than anyone else.... in my experience they have been pretty impressive.
So be aware that Machiavelli is alive and well, and make some friends.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

If the situation is as bad as you say, there are almost certainly other people who equally disgusted. You need to be in touch with them discreetly. Make an appointment and have a private chat. A formal letter could follow if necessary, but a "heads up" meeting is a friendlier jesture.
Who do you work for? In particular who is your supervisor and in what power structure is he/she enmeshed? Where does the money come from? You need to really understand all this. I absolutely stand by the notion that department secretaries almost always know more than anyone else.... in my experience they have been pretty impressive.
So be aware that Machiavelli is alive and well, and make some friends.

I don’t want to give away too many personal details but it’s a state university. Just to be clear my three direct supervisors are awesome. Even their hands are tied. I have no complaints about them whatsoever. It’s their bosses and the overall bureaucracy (I’m using this word a lot).

But thank you, I haven’t thought about all these questions (power structure, money, etc) and I certainly didn’t think about this from a Machiavellian stand point. As in protecting myself from such people.

But you are absolutely right about assessing the landscape before acting.

 

[Ibix]

Seeing is believing. Check that you won't get into trouble for videoing students without their permission, then phone camera and email that up the chain? Or perhaps less problematic, ask for the CCTV footage. Especially if you can catch them actually throwing each other around or saying racist things.

You say you've heard students grumbling. Would formal complaints from them help? Bureaucratic processes often care about numbers of complaints. If so, talk to the students and encourage them to complain formally. Do they know how to make a formal complaint? Can you make that easy for them? Print off the procedure or give them the right email address or whatever. Include a few "you should say" bullet points - the problematic behaviours are..., the negative effects on me are..., the student(s) I recognise are... Ask them to CC you (or otherwise let you know they've complained) so you can quote numbers.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Seeing is believing. Check that you won't get into trouble for videoing students without their permission, then phone camera and email that up the chain? Or perhaps less problematic, ask for the CCTV footage. Especially if you can catch them actually throwing each other around or saying racist things.

You say you've heard students grumbling. Would formal complaints from them help? Bureaucratic processes often care about numbers of complaints. If so, talk to the students and encourage them to complain formally. Do they know how to make a formal complaint? Can you make that easy for them? Print off the procedure or give them the right email address or whatever. Include a few "you should say" bullet points - the problematic behaviours are..., the negative effects on me are..., the student(s) I recognise are... Ask them to CC you (or otherwise let you know they've complained) so you can quote numbers.

Perfect strategy. Thanks.

In regards to the racist trash that comes out of their mouth. The CCTVs don’t have audio.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Someone has to deal with these reports. If you report every instance of bad behavior, and your colleagues report every instance of bad behavior, a pile of reports will end up on this person's desk. He will not want this to continue, so there will be actions taken for a pile that will not be taken for one.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Someone has to deal with these reports. If you report every instance of bad behavior, and your colleagues report every instance of bad behavior, a pile of reports will end up on this person's desk. He will not want this to continue, so there will be actions taken for a pile that will not be taken for one.

Your advice is solid. However I am tempted to become confrontational and bombastic in a way that is contrary to your advice but I will resist the temptation to call them

(Insert scathing insult here)

Until it gets to be too much. New semester starting maybe it will go smooth and I’m just paranoid. After all I did confront them once without subtlety and they folded and exited promptly as a large group.

As it stand they are on thin ice with me. And I’ll take matters into my own hand.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

@Vanadium 50 sorry if I’m lashing out to an unreasonable extent. I appreciate your advice. As I understand it, you are a prominent scientist who has probably had to deal with a fair share of bureaucratic nonsense. Just to be clear, I very much appreciate your advice and will do my best to follow it.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I have dealt with bureaucracies for a very long time. I have seen people try the following argunentL "I don;t like X." "Did you go through channels?" "No, I didn't think it would help." It almost never, ever works.

 

[Andy Resnick]

[...]

Not to mention anti semetic remarks and condescending remarks towards Shiite Muslims. Practicing wrestling moves in the lab etc.

[...]

If you are in the US, record the students and report them to the Office of Institutional Equity (or whatever equivalent name of your institution's office is)- the Title IX folks- as they are required to open an investigation about the 'unsafe learning environment'.

Similarly, record the folks 'wrestling in the lab' and report them to the safety office as they pose a physical hazard to other students.

Welcome to the service industry!

 

[Stephen Tashi]

Is there a campus newspaper? They might be looking for controversial stories critical of the school administration.

 

[Frabjous]

Is there a campus newspaper? They might be looking for controversial stories critical of the school administration.

Also a good way to not get your contract renewed.

 

[pinball1970]

Also I do not throw around the words “bigot” or “racist” lightly. I know these days those words have been overused to the point of being meaningless, this is not one of those cases.

Any CCTV? That picked up comments?

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Any CCTV? That picked up comments?

No Audio.

 

[hutchphd]

Do you have a contract? Do you have a union? Can you be fired only for cause? (if that matters you might wait for a brand new contract before trying to do your job, because you will likely piss off somebody). You are not allowed to get angry (you can be angry). You need documentation and some folks on your side.
Keep a dated journal (I like the bound composition books because they are cheap and permanent) Decide now whether you wish to pursue this and then do a good job making a difference . Remember it is not really about you.

 

[pinball1970]

No Audio.

Apologies, I scrolled up and you had already answered. I would take the advice above and document absolutely everything and slap it on someone's desk.
Do not take matters into your own hands as you will lose and they will win.
If you could find out if anyone else is willing to complain that could help, two sources is better than one.
If it helps I imagine getting in their face too. I hate bullying. Imagining is as far as that should go though fella.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Do you have a contract? Do you have a union? Can you be fired only for cause? (if that matters you might wait for a brand new contract before trying to do your job, because you will likely piss off somebody). You are not allowed to get angry (you can be angry). You need documentation and some folks on your side.
Keep a dated journal (I like the bound composition books because they are cheap and permanent) Decide now whether you wish to pursue this and then do a good job making a difference . Remember it is not really about you.

Solid solid mature advice here. I’m classified as temporary part time, they can fire me for any reason. In fact some bureaucratic upper person tried to terminate my position until other higher ups directly below them advocated strongly for me.

The tutoring lab opened this week and yes they’ve come in, nothing egregious yet, but still irksome.

 

[symbolipoint]

I’ll bring it up at the next meeting. There’s been some organizational changes as of late but I presume weekly briefings/meetings will continue. If not I’ll do exactly what you suggested. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Sorry if it was self indulgent. It just amazes me that 20 year olds can be loud, oblivious, racists who frequently disregard protocol.

In some places (regions, specific kinds of institutions,....) that is common; too common. One would expect that stuff to be either absent or nearly absent at any actual college or university.

 

[Stephen Tashi]

Also a good way to not get your contract renewed.

Journalists may use anonymous sources. A reporter with initiative would sign up for tutoring and observe the conditions first hand.

 

[pinball1970]

Journalists may use anonymous sources. A reporter with initiative would sign up for tutoring and observe the conditions first hand.

Great idea

 

[Frabjous]

Journalists may use anonymous sources. A reporter with initiative would sign up for tutoring and observe the conditions first hand.

The story is the administration doing nothing which would require a quote. A story about poorly behaving college students is banal.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

I do like the idea of the school newspaper @Stephen Tashi . It will require some care.

 

[Vanadium 50]

"Some students on campus act like jerks" is not a story.

I think it's also likely to backfire. "The administration has decided to take immediate, decisive action. The person responsible for keeping order, PhDeezNutz has been terminated. Not only did he fail to keep order, we had procedures on what to do in this case which he did not follow. He didn't even report it!"

Follow the procedures. If there is still no resolution, then you can get clever.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

"Some students on campus act like jerks" is not a story.

I think it's also likely to backfire. "The administration has decided to take immediate, decisive action. The person responsible for keeping order, PhDeezNutz has been terminated. Not only did he fail to keep order, we had procedures on what to do in this case which he did not follow. He didn't even report it!"

Follow the procedures. If there is still no resolution, then you can get clever.

Jesus Christ, as wrong as that perspective is (because my hands are tied and I have little authority) it’s probably the narrative that would prevail.

I know it sounds like I’m placating every perspective in this thread but I’m honestly trying to see this from every angle.

[Mentor Note: a couple of unnecessary paragraphs redacted]

Hopefully the last 2 paragraphs were within PF guidelines. [Nope...]

 

[hutchphd]

The issue is not really that they are childish and stupid. The only issue for you is that they are interfering with your ability to do the job you are hired to do. If you wish to do something useful here you must keep your eye on the ball. Are you allowed to ask them to be quieter? What else could you have done?
By the way, the earth is largely populated by idiots and fools: this is not a secret and you will not likely change it.

 

[PhDeezNutz]

I have asked them to be quiet many times. I’m gonna start keeping a spiral bound mini notebook in my pocket.