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atyy
Science Advisor
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Morbert said:The person using QM to make predictions constitutes an observer in the sense described above, but is the idea of an observer limited to this sense? Observer can refer more generally to a classical apparatus, correlated with the quantum system, that renders a measurement outcome. With the double slit experiment, most people would consider the interference-destroying measurement to be made by the detector at the slits, rather than the scientist reviewing the detector data at a later time.
What I'm challenging is the insistence that an observer in this sense must be excluded from the quantum state, since the classical properties necessary to establish a measurement outcome can be identified in a quantum framework.
The point is that ultimately, one needs an observer that is excluded from the quantum state. Whether the measurement apparatus is considered part of the observer is subjective. If the physicist considers its "self" to be real, it must still define "self". For example, does a physicist's "self" include its fingernails, or clothes? If that is subjective, then whether the measurement apparatus is part of the "self" is also subjective.