Rural Power Outages: Unprepared and Unpreparedness

[turbo]

That is a lot of ice. If it deposits on trees, expect the trees to take out power lines, especially if the wind comes up after the ice storm. We had one a few years back that did exactly that and left huge swaths of the state without power, some for weeks.

 

[Evo]

I didn't go to work today because we're in the same storm, really bad outside, it's been icing since early this morning and isn't supposed to stop until Sunday.

Bad news is - The Evo child is at work about 50 miles away. Her boss is going to drive her home because he has 4 wheel drive, but on a sheet of ice, it's not going to help. He promised he'd be extra careful.

I told her she should walk over to Walmart, (except it would be more like skating) buy a sleeping bag and sleep at work (her boss owns the place). Trying to drive in this is nuts.

I'M SO WORRIED! But they won't listen to me.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Let us know when she gets home.

If you lose power, are you offline?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I hope we don't lose power again. We have had quite a few power outages in the last month. The winds knocked the power out for two days last week. It is difficult to do my programming homework with an abacus.

And I couldn't sleep because some d@mned fool was running a generator inside his apartment all night long. Idiot.

 

[Evo]

Let us know when she gets home.

If you lose power, are you offline?

Yep, I don't have a battery backup or generator. Her boss says he will remind her to call me when she gets home.

I hope we don't lose power again. We have had quite a few power outages in the last month. The winds knocked the power out for two days last week. It is difficult to do my programming homework with an abacus.

That sucks. Thankfully the power company here has been very proactive about tree trimming and they replaced all the utility poles and wires after the last major ice storm.

And I couldn't sleep because some d@mned fool was running a generator inside his apartment all night long. Idiot.

What an idiot!

 

[Math Is Hard]

What an idiot!

He was pretty much begging for a Darwin award. Mom says every winter there are several news stories in Houston about people dying from CO poisoning because they run a generator in the house. They even run PSAs trying to educate people on the dangers of doing this.

I got a heated mattress pad for Christmas. I hope that's reasonably safe to use. My kitty cat loooooves it and so do I. :!)

 

[Astronuc]

He was pretty much begging for a Darwin award. Mom says every winter there are several news stories in Houston about people dying from CO poisoning because they run a generator in the house. They even run PSAs trying to educate people on the dangers of doing this.

There were several CO poisonings in the NW earlier this winter.

Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) staff is aware through police, medical examiner and news reports of at least 32 CO deaths related to portable generators from October 1 through December 31, 2006.

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/20016/

Yep, I don't have a battery backup or generator.

Not even backup hamsters?


We are expecting freezing rain or snow or both - we don't know yet and this year has been unusual. Given a choice, I'll take snow over freezing rain. The last time there was freezing rain in this area, some places were without power for 2 weeks.

 

[turbo]

Good luck, all. Just use common sense and don't do crazy irrational "rescue" attempts to try to collect loved ones that are already in relatively safe locations. One time, I picked up my cousin's husband after lasik surgery and was driving him home on wet/freezing roads, when the traffic on I-95 came to a halt. I wanted to find out what the problem was, stepped out of my truck, and landed on my ass immediately. The whole interstate in that section was coated in black ice. My studded tires and 4WD kept me from realizing the danger. Remember, even if you have good traction and control, there are many slippery missiles out there that can kill you in a heartbeat.

 

[Evo]

The Evo Child has finally gotten home. Her cell phone has been dead and I couldn't reach her.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The Evo Child has finally gotten home. Her cell phone has been dead and I couldn't reach her.

Good! I see on the news that the ice is coming down.

We've been down in the mid teens at night which is a bit cold for us. Bun keeps testing the weather outside. She lasts a minute or two and then comes running back inside and glaring at me... as if the temp outside were my fault!

 

[Evo]

We've been down in the mid teens at night which is a bit cold for us. Bun keeps testing the weather outside. She lasts a minute or two and then comes running back inside and glaring at me... as if the temp outside were my fault!

Ricco (aka the Fruit Bat) has to go outside because he's a dog. (dogs are bathroom challenged). When I open the door and the ice hits him in the face, he backs up and runs back into the house. I had to pick him up and throw him outside.

Hey, I wouldn't want to do my business outside pelleted with freezing rain and below zero wind chill. But, it's not my fault that he can't use a cat box.

 

[Moonbear]

We've been down in the mid teens at night which is a bit cold for us. Bun keeps testing the weather outside. She lasts a minute or two and then comes running back inside and glaring at me... as if the temp outside were my fault!

Of course it is! You were supposed to build her a heated tunnel between the house and your office so she doesn't have to get cold and wet when traveling.

Hey, I wouldn't want to do my business outside pelleted with freezing rain and below zero wind chill. But, it's not my fault that he can't use a cat box.

Hmm...you might need a slightly bigger cat box, but I wonder why not? You can paper train dogs, or train them to go in a particular area of the yard, so why not in a cat box? Do you think anyone ever even tried it?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I think we need to think about alternative ways of generating power:

 

[Astronuc]

I think we need to think about alternative ways of generating power:

I'll see your one cat and raise you -



Imagine how much output one would be by putting a mouse in there.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I wonder why this idea never caught on in Tibet.

 

[JasonRox]

Try August 14, 2003 some time just after 1600 ( 4 pm). It was about that time when the lights dimmed and my PC's shutdown as we had a voltage drop. The power stablized for a few seconds and then went out. We then learned the street, then neighborhood was out. Then we learned the state was out, and finally the entire northeast US and parts of Ontario.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_North_America_blackout

We were without power for about 36 hrs, and others were days without power.

Our house only lost power for about 3 hours. We're in Ontario.

 

[Astronuc]

Our house only lost power for about 3 hours. We're in Ontario.

Our local utility sold their generating plants, which are about 10-12 miles from us to Dynegy (merchant power generator), and became a electricty T&D retailer buying off the grid. The only problem - when the grid goes down - there's no electricity. Prior to that, the local utility could have isolated itself and stayed up - but noooo - that would make too much sense.

 

[mathwonk]

where are you anyway ivan? I own property in the northwest and have been hoping to move there for years. i was told the weather is always perfect. of course i only visit in july, but so far it seems true.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

where are you anyway ivan? I own property in the northwest and have been hoping to move there for years. i was told the weather is always perfect. of course i only visit in july, but so far it seems true.

I live near Eugene. And it is true: If you love the rain and fog, the weather is always perfect! Of course this only applies to the central valley and north, and the coast. Eastern and Southern Oregon and much sunnier. And even the valley can and often does have beautiful weather any time of year, but there can be months of rainy weather as well.

Where is your propery?

If you're going to be out this way, let me know and maybe we can meet for lunch or dinner.

 

[triden]

In this newer subdivision where I live all the power lines are underground which means we hardly ever get outages. When we do. it's usually because something in the substation takes a dive.

 

[Evo]

In this newer subdivision where I live all the power lines are underground which means we hardly ever get outages. When we do. it's usually because something in the substation takes a dive.

All of our lines are buried also, there are no poles in the neighborhood. However, the neighborhood gets it's electricty via overhead power lines at some point between us and the power station, if they're knocked down, we go out.

 

[turbo]

In our old subdivision, lines to the individual buildings were buried, but all the lines were overhead, right to the edge of each property, so any advantage that gave from tree damage was between the transformer and the house. Any ice-laden branch hitting the overhead lines would trip the safeties, so we lost power fairly often. Out here in the country, we haven't lost power often, though when it goes out, it might be out for hours or days, depending on the scope of the outage. We're lucky this time - the storm that has given others such trouble is staying an all-snow event. Despite the forecast for sleet, etc, the temp has been dropping all day. It's down to 18 deg F now, so the chances of getting anything but snow are slim. The wind has switched so that it's coming out of the northeast - usually that means that the bulk of the storm has passed and moist air from over the ocean will be supplying snow throughout the night - just as long as it doesn't bring warm air, we'll be all set - shoveling instead of scraping.

 

[hypatia]

I was without power most of the day, back up and running by 9 pm. Ice is still a inch thick on the lines, with heavy winds in the forcast overnight. Needless to say I have my back up power ready to go.

 

[turbo]

An update from central Maine - it is currently -3 deg F at 2:00 am. Our first nip of zero temps this year. In the late '70s I was the clerk of the works on a large apartment complex construction project, and part of my job involved tracking costs and physical data-points that impacted on costs, including temperatures. For two weeks about this time of year, the temperature never even approached 20 deg F during the day and was routinely -10 to -20 every night. We spent a ton of money on propane and space-heaters (and the labor to maintain them) to keep the project on-track.

My wife and I have a cozy little log house and the wood stove is keeping us toasty. We might burn 3 cords of wood this winter with no supplemental heat. We have an oil furnace, but after filling the oil tank after buying the place 18 months ago, we still have over 3/4 tank left, mainly from running the furnace in the fall and spring when a wood fire would have driven us out of the place, or when I expected to be outside hunting and unavailable to tend the stove.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We finally broke 32F today but Portland was a DISASTER. They had freezing rain on 25F pavement, followed by up to three inches of snow. In many places people couldn't even make it up the grade at the freeway interchanges. The I-5 N and S were closed along with the I-84 coming into Portland. People were literally counting the number of accidents per hour in many locations. The local news was on all day with live coverage.

Yesterday I lost water due to a frozen pipe, but luckily no damage was done and the water came on again this morning after a night of directed heating. It turned out that some gravel had pulled away from the concrete slab of the pump house and let cold air reach the main pipe. But for a time it was starting to look like my pipe had actually frozen underground...which could be possible. Some of the original work done on this place was pretty bad. For example, one year I hit my septic line at about one foot [deep] with a trencher; in fact I cut it three times before I ever knew. . So after that I could easily imagine that the original water pipes weren't buried deep enough. It was starting to look ugly for a time. After a week in the teens and twenties, and with the water content in the soil being so high around here [pretty much saturated this time of year], there is no way to dig and probably won't be for several days at least. Whewwwww!

 

[turbo]

Man, Ivan! You've got a fixer-upper there. it is now 2:48 and the temperature has gotten down to -12 deg F outside according to my LL Bean inside-outside thermometer. Our house is comfortably warm (wood heat) and there is no danger of the pipes freezing at this mild temperature. If we got -10 for a couple of weeks, I'd monitor the temps in the cellar, but that seems like an unlikely scenario, given the warming trend. Today was the first day that the local snowmobile club got out their groomer and tried to make a base for their trails (IT-87 runs for a 1/2 mile inside my eastern boundary).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Man, Ivan! You've got a fixer-upper there. it is now 2:48 and the temperature has gotten down to -12 deg F outside according to my LL Bean inside-outside thermometer. Our house is comfortably warm (wood heat) and there is no danger of the pipes freezing at this mild temperature. If we got -10 for a couple of weeks, I'd monitor the temps in the cellar, but that seems like an unlikely scenario, given the warming trend. Today was the first day that the local snowmobile club got out their groomer and tried to make a base for their trails (IT-87 runs for a 1/2 mile inside my eastern boundary).

A fixer upper based on a pipe?

Go to bed.

 

[turbo]

A fixer upper based on a pipe?

Go to bed.

Or perhaps an insulator-upper?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Well, there is a lot of work to do around here [I am currently slugging it out with two major projects, and three seriously overdue], but I had to laugh considering that the problem occurred in my new $20K pump house!

 

[turbo]

Well, there is a lot of work to do around here [I am currently slugging it out with two major projects, and three seriously overdue], but I had to laugh considering that the problem occurred in my new $20K pump house!

Holy cow! $20K? That's some water project. When this place was built, the owner relied on ground-water and put in a dug well with a pump in the cellar. Later, after a very dry spell, he had a well drilled with a submersible pump installed in that, so we have two independent sources of water, either of which can be piped to parts of the plumbing. Currently, we use the dug well for watering the garden, washing the cars, etc, and the drilled well for in-house consumption. All that piping is in a cellar that is normally unheated aside from radiation from the living quarters upstairs, so I watch the temps down there during very cold weather, lest I end up with a skating rink.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In addition to what you see [which is oddly skewed for some reason], there was a load of major landscaping, tree removal, driveway modifications, electrical, etc to be done. We still have the original pump house down in the pasture which has the primary pump, and then we have a constant pressure booster pump and filters system seen in the new house here. It is all fully automated and only requires servicing three times a year [chlorine and brine tanks]. I used to have to service the old one every month, and even then the water was still a huge problem. Also, this one is right next to the house which makes it much more convenient.

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6977/img00030smbw1.jpg

We have never gotten around to the planter boxes that will go along the outside of the left wall. This would have prevented our little problem. But is was a simple as some cold air leaking in under the slab.

This area has bad water [high in iron and sulfer compounds at times]; hence the elaborate system.

 

[turbo]

Wow! That is some system! No wonder you've got such a pile of dough sunk in it. I was wondering how you could possibly sink $20K into a pump house...you've got a whole water-treatment plant in there. Too bad about the mineralized water...we've got great ground water throughout most of Maine. In fact, if you buy Poland Spring bottled water, that comes from here, and they are expanding operations tapping at least one or two more aquifers in Maine. The municipal water district that serves my father's town has had their water judged the best municipal water in the state, and perhaps the country - I don't remember.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wow! That is some system! No wonder you've got such a pile of dough sunk in it. I was wondering how you could possibly sink $20K into a pump house...you've got a whole water-treatment plant in there. Too bad about the mineralized water...we've got great ground water throughout most of Maine. In fact, if you buy Poland Spring bottled water, that comes from here, and they are expanding operations tapping at least one or two more aquifers in Maine. The municipal water district that serves my father's town has had their water judged the best municipal water in the state, and perhaps the country - I don't remember.

Way back in the bad old days, people around here just lived with the water or provided only primary filtering. When it gets bad, which is usually when the water table gets low in the summer months, to me it is like drinking rust. I don't see how people could stand it but I guess you get used to it. Of course, you would still ruin all of you clothes and water appliances if you use it, which in fact is what happened to us when the old system started to fail. This was when I decided to buy what you see.

Now the area is growing with expensive homes going in that come with a decent filter systems, but I'm told by all that we definitely still have the best water in the estates. Of course, eventually we will be annexed by the nearest town and municipal water will be piped in, so this system was purchased with the idea that it must last until about the time that should happen; which I think will be in no less than ten, and likely more like twenty years.

 

[Astronuc]

It's a balmy 16°F (-8.9°C) here, and this morning, it was a mild 8°F (-13.3°C), and still no snow yet. Further north, they had an ice storm that knocked out power to about 50,000 during the weekend, and some folk are still without power.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yesterday afternoon, the snow in Portland melted just a bit - for about an hour - just enough to add to the ice problem today. It was so bad this morning that people were seen driving snowmobiles on major roads.