Scoring the Presidential Debate #1: Winners, Kill Blows & Major Subjects

[WhoWee]

If we let everyone (except maybe the worse 1%) out of prison in this country and told them...now behave and go get a job...stay out of trouble...what do you think would happen?

At a minimum, some of them would prey upon the other citizens. Others might take up arms with their (like minded affiliates - gangs) and become local narco-terrorists.

We don't do a great job of controlling these problems now...LOTS of reasons...but we know better than to dump everyone on the street unsupervised and unfed...right?

The new Iraqi leadership needs to address their local security in a positive way. They need to secure one area at a time and gain the trust of their citizens. Otherwise, the population only knows one way of life...submit to the greatest threat.

The big difference is we're never going to execute 100,000 people (nor should we) and bulldoze them into a ditch...and they know it...they'll just tolerate us until we leave.

How we leave might is probably the most important decision at this time...regarding Iraq.

 

[LowlyPion]

... The name “Ahmadinejad” probably stuck in his throat because of revulsion for such a dangerous fanatic. ...

That's no excuse for someone who is ambitious to be President. Petulant and petty is not pretty in a President.

I judge Mc Cain to be a good and honest man who will do what is best for his country.

I once did as well, but no longer now after the kinds of attacks that he has condoned under his name. After his embrace of the extreme Right as his only hope to be President. The ridiculous choice of the vapid valley girl from Alaska that makes him look all but too content to risk the country falling on the rocks of extreme division.

After his readiness to posture during this financial crisis, to misread the economy like Herbert Hoover, to deny his career as a champion of deregulation to avoid responsibility, to preen for the cameras, to disrupt the process, all in the name advancing his ambition to be President, shows to me a profound dishonesty and lack of honor in serving the country ahead of his own selfish interests.

 

[WhoWee]

I agree the U tube video IS a joke (kind of my point)...but a sad joke at that...the truth is that neither Obama nor Palin are qualified...I'm really tired of bad choices.

As for Obama being a state Senator in Illinois since 1996...read what he did during that time...common theme workers pay protection, low income subsidy, voter rights...all noble enough...and all giveaways.

The point I'm trying to make is this...after 8 years of floating along in Illinois...how does this guy ride into Washington and jump into 5 major committees and move to the head of the Democratic party in a 2 1/2 year period unless someone is pulling his strings?

Was there nobody more qualified in the Democratic party than Obama and Hillary?

 

[Alfi]

When I re-read the transcript I find McCain to bouncing all over a topic and very difficult to read. I think Obama stuck to the questions better.

except when

This bit struck me as funny. It was almost going to break into a child's fight.

MCCAIN: So let me get this right. We sit down with Ahmadinejad, and he says, "We're going to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth," and we say, "No, you're not"? Oh, please.

OBAMA: No, let me tell...

MCCAIN: By the way, my friend, Dr. Kissinger, who's been my friend for 35 years, would be interested to hear this conversation and Senator Obama's depiction of his -- of his positions on the issue. I've known him for 35 years.

OBAMA: We will take a look.

MCCAIN: And I guarantee you he would not -- he would not say that presidential top level.

OBAMA: Nobody's talking about that.

MCCAIN: Of course he encourages and other people encourage contacts, and negotiations, and all other things. We do that all the time.

LEHRER: We're going to go to a new...

MCCAIN: And Senator Obama is parsing words when he says precondition means preparation.

OBAMA: I am not parsing words.

MCCAIN: He's parsing words, my friends.

OBAMA: I'm using the same words that your advisers use.

Please, go ahead.

LEHRER: New lead question.

Obama gets one point for dismissing McCain. Next question

Has there been any word from Mr Kissinger on the issue?

 

[Alfi]

McCain : I know how to deal with our adversaries, and I know how to deal with our friends.



He scares me.
What if I'm not 'one of them' ?

 

[wildman]

If we let everyone (except maybe the worse 1%) out of prison in this country and told them...now behave and go get a job...stay out of trouble...what do you think would happen?

At a minimum, some of them would prey upon the other citizens. Others might take up arms with their (like minded affiliates - gangs) and become local narco-terrorists.

We don't do a great job of controlling these problems now...LOTS of reasons...but we know better than to dump everyone on the street unsupervised and unfed...right?

The new Iraqi leadership needs to address their local security in a positive way. They need to secure one area at a time and gain the trust of their citizens. Otherwise, the population only knows one way of life...submit to the greatest threat.

The big difference is we're never going to execute 100,000 people (nor should we) and bulldoze them into a ditch...and they know it...they'll just tolerate us until we leave.

How we leave might is probably the most important decision at this time...regarding Iraq.

The problem always is: Do we have enough resources to lock up the bad guys or do we address the problem in some other (cheaper) way. In spite of what the Bush and the Neocons believe, we just don't have the money and lives to go around attacking and locking up EVERYONE.

The question now is do we have the resources to stay in Iraq or do we take a risk and set a withdraw date or do we take another risk and stay in Iraq? Which is the greater risk?

 

[WhoWee]

At the end of the day...the new Iraqi leadership must find a way to govern themselves.

The issue is complicated for us because so manu of our private companies are now "in country".

Read today's headline

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080928/bs_nm/us_iraq_ge_siemens

$7 billion in contracts...hopefully the Iraqi's pay them and not us...maybe the answer is to charge our companies for protection...let them build it into their contracts?

 

[WhoWee]

To get back to the thread...

I think we all agree that it's a sad state of affairs when we need to put every word both candidates utter under a fact checking microscope...that we distrust our political system THAT much.

I think we also agree that the various news organizations promote their own agendas...instead of reporting the news...also bad.Here's a thought:What if we hook both candidates up to lie detectors for the next debate? If they lie...drop them into a dunk tank...like a clown at the fair.

 

[LowlyPion]

What if we hook both candidates up to lie detectors for the next debate? If they lie...drop them into a dunk tank...like a clown at the fair.

That's apparently already happened to Palin and it looks like McCain is still clawing to stay on the clown seat.

 

[WhoWee]

I still don't know what to think about the Palin selection?

You know what I find even more interesting...certain Republican forces actually wanted McCain to consider Jeb Bush...hahaha.

Maybe she was the best available choice?

 

[LowlyPion]

I still don't know what to think about the Palin selection?

You know what I find even more interesting...certain Republican forces actually wanted McCain to consider Jeb Bush...hahaha.

Maybe she was the best available choice?

If she was the best of a bad litter, ... ouch. Because in the end that's all McCain was to the Republicans in the first place.

I liked Huckabee the best, but his policy positions were simply too faith based for me. In hindsight though I'd say he would have both energized the conservative base, his positions are about as extreme as Palin without the ethical and inexperience baggage, and not have become the kind of National running joke embarrassment that Palin has become.

 

[WhoWee]

As for Obama, a few weeks ago I started to wonder if maybe he wasn't supposed to actually WIN(?)...just take away votes in the primary.

Hillary would have been guaranteed to win with Obama as co-pilot. This could have led to another 8 to 12 to 16 (?) year Democratic run.

 

[WhoWee]

If you step back and look at the organization of our system...checks and balances...it does work...if given a fair chance.

I've come to believe we need the safest choice at president. Someone who understands world politics, the economy and a senior statesman...Governors make a good choice normally...(like him or not & I didn't vote for him) Reagan fit the profile. President should not be a learn on the job position...and no more namesakes.

I think our biggest problem is in the Congress. In the medical field we have general MD's and we have specialists.

We're always going to have lifetime appointments on the bench...part of the deal.

But, I don't think Congress should be so comfy.

I think we need longer terms for Senators...maybe 8 years and double that for committee heads (specialists)...and PAY them well...enough to keep them accountable. If you lie/cheat/steal...you GO TO JAIL!

The House on the other hand needs to be more representative of our population base (general MD's...lot's of common sense and accountability at home)...shorter terms and no "lifers"...if they're good enough to stay...make them run for Senate.

Again, just a thought.

 

[LowlyPion]

As for Obama, a few weeks ago I started to wonder if maybe he wasn't supposed to actually WIN(?)...just take away votes in the primary.

Hillary would have been guaranteed to win with Obama as co-pilot. This could have led to another 8 to 12 to 16 (?) year Democratic run.

I tend to agree with that. But I will say that Obama has grown to fill out his suit. And in the world we are living in today that presents this choice, it suggests oddly enough that Obama is the less erratic and the more thoughtful.

 

[WhoWee]

I said this yesterday (and was chastised), but I think McCain in the known quantity and does want to finish his career strong...I get the feeling he hasn't lived up to family expectations yet.

Obama on the other hand, COULD BE VERY PRODUCTIVE in Congress. If he returned to Washington and led reform in the Senate (and tried to keep Nancy Pelosi in check) he would be a much greater ASSET to our country than if he becomes President and struggles with gridlock.

Please read what I'm saying...Obama COULD MAKE A HUGE IMPACT in a second term...then NOBODY would doubt him and he'd be the natural choice next time (sorry Hillary), you can always go back to WalMart.

I think these candidates (McCain & Obama) would compliment one another and could get a lot done IF they could find a way to work together.

United we stand...at the end of the day, I'm not aligned with either party. I'm an American first...no agenda...and very worried about our country and our long term security.

 

[LowlyPion]

..I get the feeling he hasn't lived up to family expectations yet.

At this point I don't see him living up to his representations, or that he offers anything but erratic decision making and naked ambition willing to embrace any ideology that can carry him higher. In short he's used up the respect that I once had for him.

Obama on the other hand, ... than if he becomes President and struggles with gridlock.

Don't expect the Republicans to make any gains in Congress. Obama is likely to reside in the White House with a majority in Congress. If there would be gridlock it would be standing against McCain should he win, and McCain/Palin would be totally divisive force in the Nation. No more lipstick for that Bush Policy Pig that has brought us to this mess is my sense of where the country is.

I think these candidates (McCain & Obama) would compliment one another ...

I think the Nation is best served by giving McCain a pat on the back and letting him retire to his Country Club.

I'm an American first...no agenda...and very worried about our country and our long term security.

Then I'm guessing that Obama should be expecting your vote in November.

 

[WhoWee]

I just don't think he's ready...and you make a good point...the Democrats WILL control the Congress.

This too is a problem...I think the powers in Congress would dictate to Obama...and Nancy Pelosi...is BIGGEST PROBLEM in that scenario.

Again, Obama could be VERY influential and productive in a second term.

 

[LowlyPion]

I just don't think he's ready...and you make a good point...the Democrats WILL control the Congress.

This too is a problem...I think the powers in Congress would dictate to Obama...and Nancy Pelosi...is BIGGEST PROBLEM in that scenario.

Again, Obama could be VERY influential and productive in a second term.

Obama is no puppet.

If they could have dictated to Obama, they already would have Hilary as the Nominee.

 

[Astronuc]

I'd like to know who is advising the McCain and Obama, on economics, foreign policy, . . . , i.e. who has their ear, who do they listening to, and how do McCain and Obama independently verify that they are getting correct information.

Who are the ideologues? Who will be in the transition team, and who will be cabinet members?

 

[WhoWee]

Don't kid yourself...someone fast tracked Obama.

 

[WhoWee]

Here's a thought for the night...

Why haven't we heard from Oprah lately?

I thought she was going to light the path to the White House (or something like that).

Maybe her contacts in Chicago know something we don't...yet?

 

[Evo]

Don't kid yourself...someone fast tracked Obama.

Post a link to back this up. An opinion is ok, stating an opinion as truth is a violation of the guidelines.

 

[WhoWee]

No problem...start here with his resumehttp://obamasresume.org/First, look at his activity and leadership in the Illinois Senate...mediocre at best.

Now look at how long he's served in the US Senate...2 1/2 years approx...(prior to the primaries) and from out of nowhere he's on 5 major committees and a chair...then he's chosen to lead the Democratic party and the free world...tell me I'm wrong to think he had help.

 

[Astronuc]

Now look at how long he's served in the US Senate...2 1/2 years approx...(prior to the primaries) and from out of nowhere he's on 5 major committees and a chair...

Well he's got to serve on some committees. Perhaps he took vacancies. If he got the chairmanship, then perhaps he impressed his colleagues or leadership.

then he's chosen to lead the Democratic party and the free world...tell me I'm wrong to think he had help.

Um - primaries and caucuses. Otherwise, Hillary Clinton would be leading the Democratic party. And please don't refer to the president as leader of the free world - he or she is not. The rest of the free world is doing just fine not following Bush or any other US president.

 

[LowlyPion]

No problem...start here with his resume


http://obamasresume.org/


First, look at his activity and leadership in the Illinois Senate...mediocre at best.

Now look at how long he's served in the US Senate...2 1/2 years approx...(prior to the primaries) and from out of nowhere he's on 5 major committees and a chair...then he's chosen to lead the Democratic party and the free world...tell me I'm wrong to think he had help.

You're wrong to think that that there is a conspiracy other than that his popularity has soared after the last Democratic Convention where his address showed the promise of a capable young leader. After being elected to the Senate of course he got some plum assignments as befits his standing in the Party. I would note that Hilary also got her choice of committees as a result of her standing in the party when she was first elected in NY as a freshman Senator.

This doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy to do anything but advance those that the Party thinks can ably carry the Democratic Agenda.

 

[Evo]

No problem...start here with his resume


http://obamasresume.org/


First, look at his activity and leadership in the Illinois Senate...mediocre at best.

Now look at how long he's served in the US Senate...2 1/2 years approx...(prior to the primaries) and from out of nowhere he's on 5 major committees and a chair...then he's chosen to lead the Democratic party and the free world...tell me I'm wrong to think he had help.

That doesn't back you up. You must post something that proves what you said.

 

[WhoWee]

Are you the judge or jury?

I just read one of your postings offering credit advice to someone...are you sure of what you said?

I'm looking at information that Obama has made public and making an interpretation of that information...I stand by my comments...he's been helped...fast tracked by someone...I don't know who...but he's stepped over a lot of qualified people in a very short time period...that is a fact.

 

[LowlyPion]

Debate Watchers Give Obama Edge Over McCain
PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans who watched the first presidential debate on Sept. 26 gave Barack Obama the edge over John McCain as having done the better job in the debate, by a 46% to 34% margin.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110779/Debate-Watchers-Give-Obama-Edge-Over-McCain.aspx

Basically both candidates shifted more positively by the same amount as regards to handling Foreign Policy, but McCain got his head kicked in on the Economy with no benefit more favorable to less favorable, while Obama got 16% thinking more favorably than less.

No wonder the McCain shills on the airways are hoping to get more foreign policy discussion.

 

[WhoWee]

LowlyPion

Don't you think Hillary rode into the Senate with a much bigger head start than Obama?

She came into the Senate as the former First Lady...complete with Secret Service protection...of course she was treated special. I'm also pretty sure she's had her eye on the White House since the day she left.

I'm not looking for a conspiracy...someone took an interest in Obama and helped him...I don't know who?

I'm not talking about after the convention...I'm talking about BEFORE the primaries began.

Maybe the QUESTION should be...WHO took Obama under their wing?

You have to admit he's had a meteoric rise.

It's really hard to believe Obama woke up one day and said, gee...I've been in the Senate now for about 2 1/2 years, I've worked really hard and gotten myself onto 5 committees and I chair one. Now, I think I'll risk EVERYTHING and run for President...I better make some calls and see who might be interested in backing me.

 

[Evo]

Are you the judge or jury?

I enforce the rules.

I just read one of your postings offering credit advice to someone...are you sure of what you said?

Very sure, that is one of my specialties, I know utilities, it's my job.

I'm looking at information that Obama has made public and making an interpretation of that information...I stand by my comments...he's been helped...fast tracked by someone...I don't know who...but he's stepped over a lot of qualified people in a very short time period...that is a fact.

It is not a fact and you violated the guidelines.

 

[WhoWee]

I asked you about the credit advice because I'm an executive in the credit/collection industry. I've seen a lot of people get into big trouble with cell phone and cable bills. Young people need to be VERY careful with their credit.

I wish our politicians were more careful as well.

It's funny how the rules work...you can say Obama was truthful but McCain wasn't and we have to accept your word for it.

Can you PROVE Obama was truthful?

Can you PROVE McCain wasn't?

I think both of these statements might be your opinion...not fact...and that's fine...too narrow an application of the rules will ultimately stifle a free exchange of ideas.

Back to my statement about being fast tracked...from good old Wikipedia here's a link to a definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track

Fast track
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(January 2008)

Fast track refers to the practice of making use of a process which is accelerated in comparison to the one in typical use. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term's first published use was in an April 1976 Business Week article, where it referred to the construction industry's practice of beginning construction before design was complete.

...that's as good a definition as any

I'm not the only one who thinks Obama WAS fast tracked...read this

http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?threadid=795698with that said...please read on...

I posted earlier that since everyone seems to doubt what the candidates say, fact checking and all, m a y b e we should just hook them both up next time to lie detectors and dunk them in a tank of water like clowns at a fair every time they lie.

Might be fun?

I am very sincere in everything I post. If someone tells me I'm wrong, I try not to over-react but instead determine the basis for their opinion.

I think it's our right to demand financial accountability in Washington...31% fraud in Medicare is not acceptable. That system clearly doesn't work.

I'm tired of being lied to and told only what we need to know to give them what they want, ala Bush and his WMD's.

Now Bush says we need a $700 B bailout or else (this is the kind of drama I expect from my teenagers)...nobody in Washington saw this problem looming for the past 10 years?

I posted a story about Warren Buffet a few days ago...really puts the bailout and our next big concern into perspective...derivatives trading...BIG problem...and aside from the people who run the industry...nobody understands it...including the SEC and Fed (apparently).

The SEC chief testified last week before Congress (when Lehman went down)...said somewhere between $60 and $183 TRILLION were held by our banks and are unregulated...he's been briefed several times over the past few months by Hedge fund managers (or someone) to bring HIM up to speed.

read this link...it will make your skin crawl

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/derivatives-new-ticking-time-bomb/story.aspx?guid={B9E54A5D-4796-4D0D-AC9E-D9124B59D436}

I guess all we can hope for at this point is that Wall Street knows more about derivatives than the Arabs or the Chinese?

 

[LowlyPion]

I'm not talking about after the convention...I'm talking about BEFORE the primaries began.

I was talking about the convention 4 years ago nominating Kerry, when he was a Congressman. Not this last one that nominated him.

In the mean time I'd say he's earned his way to the nomination, no conspiracy needed.

 

[WhoWee]

I hope you're right...and I'm really not looking for a conspiracy.

My ORIGINAL comment was that I wondered if he was actually expected to win...maybe just take votes in the primary(?)...then a Hillary/Obama ticket would be unbeatable...for 2 terms...then he's have 2 more.

I don't think that's a conspiracy theory? But it sure would've been a good strategy. I'd just like to know how he did move SO quickly.

 

[LowlyPion]

I'd just like to know how he did move SO quickly.

Maybe because he deserves it?

 

[WhoWee]

I really hope you're right...seen the new poll numbers?

Has Obama said anything about a cabinet lately...probably more important than the President this time around.