Step Ladder on a rough survace - torques help

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The discussion revolves around analyzing a step ladder modeled as two rods hinged at a point, focusing on the forces acting on them when in equilibrium. Participants clarify the need to express forces in terms of unit vectors and derive scalar equations from vector equations. The key equations involve friction forces, normal reactions, and weights of the rods, which must be balanced for equilibrium. The concept of torque is also introduced, emphasizing the need to calculate it about the hinge point. Overall, the thread seeks to guide the user in understanding the equilibrium conditions and torque calculations for the ladder system.
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Homework Statement



A step ladder is moddelled as two model rods OA and Ab smoothly hinged at A. The other ends of the rods rest on a rough horizontal floor. The mass of rod AB is 4m and that of rod OA is m. The andle each rod makes with the vertical is theta. The origin is taken at O and the unit vectors i and j are defined as shown.

Here is a picture of the question
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/selah83/Q1.jpg


Homework Equations



Torque = position vector * Force

The Attempt at a Solution



Ok a) is drawing the force diagram Iv got that down I think

B) Express each for in terms of i and j (Iv got that)
F1 = Friction acting on O = lF1l i
F2 = Friction acting on B = - lF2l i
N1 = Normal Reaction of OA = lN1l j
N2 = Normal Reaction of AB = lN2l j
W1 = Weight of rod OA = -lw1l j
W2 = Weight of rod AB = -lw2l j

but is says hence obtain two scalar equations relating to the magnitude of the forces when the system is in equilibrium. and then find the torque of each force about O.

I really don't understand this any help much appreciated!
 
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Hi Bruno1983! Welcome to PF! :smile:

(have a theta: θ :wink:)
Bruno1983 said:
A step ladder is moddelled as two model rods OA and Ab smoothly hinged at A. The other ends of the rods rest on a rough horizontal floor. The mass of rod AB is 4m and that of rod OA is m. The andle each rod makes with the vertical is theta. The origin is taken at O and the unit vectors i and j are defined as shown.

B) Express each for in terms of i and j (Iv got that)
F1 = Friction acting on O = lF1l i
F2 = Friction acting on B = - lF2l i
N1 = Normal Reaction of OA = lN1l j
N2 = Normal Reaction of AB = lN2l j
W1 = Weight of rod OA = -lw1l j
W2 = Weight of rod AB = -lw2l j

but is says hence obtain two scalar equations relating to the magnitude of the forces when the system is in equilibrium. and then find the torque of each force about O.

In this context, scalar means "not vector".

A vector equation would be ai + bj + ci + dj = 0, or (a,b) + (c,d) = 0

That can be decomposed into two scalar equations:

a + c = 0 and b + d = 0

Similarly you could decompose (a,b,c) x (d,e,f) = (u,v,w) into three scalar equations :wink:
 
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Question: A clock's minute hand has length 4 and its hour hand has length 3. What is the distance between the tips at the moment when it is increasing most rapidly?(Putnam Exam Question) Answer: Making assumption that both the hands moves at constant angular velocities, the answer is ## \sqrt{7} .## But don't you think this assumption is somewhat doubtful and wrong?

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