The Grassroots movement , and the Tea Party

[WhoWee]

The hotel one I could see as being accurate, but I don't see why anyone would complain there, I mean do they expect the Secret Service to just book one floor of the hotel!?

If I recall, this article started the speculation?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...13-aircraft--N-button/articleshow/6874544.cms

"NEW DELHI: President Obama does not believe in traveling light. Long before the Air Force One touch down on Saturday, as many 13 US aircraft and four choppers have already flown in all kinds of equipment and 20-25 swanky cars to facilitate his stay in Mumbai and Delhi.

This is not all. As many as 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, have taken position in the Arabian sea off the Mumbai coast as part of security arrangements for the presidential visit.

Running the show will be over 500-strong presidential staff comprising Secret Service, Marines and intelligence personnel, who will co-ordinate with the Indian para-military and police forces to make Mr Obama’s visit secure and glitch-free. The equipment being brought in by the US agencies include a communication set up and the nuclear button. "

 

[Gokul43201]

The hotel one I could see as being accurate, but I don't see why anyone would complain there, I mean do they expect the Secret Service to just book one floor of the hotel!?

Nevertheless, the hotel claim is the one that is (and has been) most easily debunked. You can not book "over 870 rooms" in a hotel that has only 294 rooms.

 

[NobodySpecial]

Bachmann: "Obama's diverted 10% of the US Navy and booked 870 rooms in the Taj Mahal hotel at a cost of $200 million a day"

Like the quote that it cost $200 million for the Canadian army security at the winter olympics.
Can you hire the US navy by the day?
Or did they have to turn down another paying gig to sit around in the Indian ocean.

 

[WhoWee]

I posted this in the "Economic Recovery" thread as well - makes me proud to be an American.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/you-are-doing-a-tougher-job-than-me-obama-to-alam/707877/

"US President Barack Obama has lavished praise on the NGO 'Sammaan Foundation' founder Irfan Alam for his endeavour to create jobs for unskilled people by manufacturing rickshaws for livelihood and sustenance of unskilled people of Bihar.



"You are doing a tougher job than me by creating jobs for the unskilled people of your state and other parts of the country," he told reporters here quoting Obama's encouraging words to him in Mumbai yesterday.



Alam, who was part of a goup of industrialists who had met Obama, said that he had briefed the US President about his endeavour to help the rickshaw pullers to lead a dignified life by way of maximizing income, besides undertaking welfare measures for them. "

Maybe this is Obama's plan to wean people from welfare?

 

[Gokul43201]

If I recall, this article started the speculation?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...13-aircraft--N-button/articleshow/6874544.cms

Nope. Obviously, that article, written yesterday, can not be the source of speculation that began a few days ago. It is simply repeating the speculation of other articles. The original article is cited in the snopes page linked before.

 

[Gokul43201]

I posted this in the "Economic Recovery" thread as well - makes me proud to be an American.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/you-are-doing-a-tougher-job-than-me-obama-to-alam/707877/

And why do you think it was worth repeating in a thread about the Tea Party?

Alam, who was part of a goup of industrialists who had met Obama, said that he had briefed the US President about his endeavour to help the rickshaw pullers to lead a dignified life by way of maximizing income, besides undertaking welfare measures for them. "

Maybe this is Obama's plan to wean people from welfare?

I'm getting tired of these fallacies! What does a privately instituted welfare measure (i.e., employee benefits) in India have to do with government welfare in the US?

 

[WhoWee]

And why do you think it was worth repeating in a thread about the Tea Party?

I'm getting tired of these fallacies! What does a privately instituted welfare measure (i.e., employee benefits) in India have to do with government welfare in the US?

Why is Obama wasting his time and our tax dollars on this nonsense? The Tea Party thread is an appropriate place to discuss the activities of our leaders that make the average voter scratch their head.

 

[OmCheeto]

Why is Obama wasting his time and our tax dollars on this nonsense? The Tea Party thread is an appropriate place to discuss the activities of our leaders that make the average voter scratch their head.

The average voter probably scratches their head because they have fleas.

Sorry if this has already been pointed out.

For some odd reason, I've been avoiding getting involved in this thread.

 

[Gokul43201]

Why is Obama wasting his time and our tax dollars on this nonsense?

Yeah, I'm sure spending a few minutes talking to someone who has doubled the incomes of 10 million impoverished families in 2 years - without any government assistance - is nonsense and a waste of taxpayer money. Heck, one might have thought this was exactly the kind of person/initiative that the Tea Party would have considered a role model.

The Tea Party thread is an appropriate place to discuss the activities of our leaders that make the average voter scratch their head.

And if the best conclusion one can draw is that a chat with an entrepreneur in India that uplifted a huge segment of low-income population without government help is somehow indicative that Obama wants more government welfare in the US ... then I can only recommend a lot more scratching.

 

[CAC1001]

From my understanding, Obama is also in India because they are one of our main allies, right?

 

[WhoWee]

Yeah, I'm sure spending a few minutes talking to someone who has doubled the incomes of 10 million impoverished families in 2 years - without any government assistance - is nonsense and a waste of taxpayer money. Heck, one might have thought this was exactly the kind of person/initiative that the Tea Party would have considered a role model.

And if the best conclusion one can draw is that a chat with an entrepreneur in India that uplifted a huge segment of low-income population without government help is somehow indicative that Obama wants more government welfare in the US ... then I can only recommend a lot more scratching.

How many US jobs have been outsourced to India?

What is the goal of this trip?

Personally, I hope Obama continues to fool himself and his supporters that he's on the right track - it will guarantee his loss in 2012.

 

[Gokul43201]

How many US jobs have been outsourced to India?

I don't know. How is that relevant? Would you like India to be considered an enemy state because jobs get outsourced there as a direct consequence of free trade?

What is the goal of this trip?

Why don't you tell us? It is you that is claiming it is nonsense.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't know. How is that relevant? Would you like India to be considered an enemy state because jobs get outsourced there as a direct consequence of free trade?

Why don't you tell us? It is you that is claiming it is nonsense.

Why is Obama in India? Is he creating jobs in the US - or is he focused on political struggles /war effort in the region?

If you want to defend his actions and dismiss the expense of his trip - then do so.

Please explain why the American people should not be outraged by his behavior.

 

[schizoid]

Why is Obama in India? Is he creating jobs in the US - or is he focused on political struggles /war effort in the region?

If you want to defend his actions and dismiss the expense of his trip - then do so.

Please explain why the American people should not be outraged by his behavior.

There seems to be some sort of rage against obama and his trip. He is on a ten day trip to SE asia, not only india. After India he's visiting indonesia, south korea and japan. I thought the trip was to build better relations including trade with these countries.

He signed 10 billion $ deals in india.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-starts-india-trip-with-10-bn-biz-deals/707603/"

 

[OmCheeto]

How many US jobs have been outsourced to India?

The other day, I thought I might have been confused as to what was be being discussed on another thread. But I think I wasn't.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i82480"
US President Barack Obama allegedly ... defended the charity's right to place its helpline in a location of its choice, praised its work and then refused comment on its wisdom, successfully confusing the American nation for the 3rd time in as 3 months.

What is the goal of this trip?

"[URL
... Obama India[/URL]
Welcome... News outlets are reporting ... that Obama’s trip to India will cost tax payers $200 million a day. Even more ..., there are reports that Obama’s trip will use one-tenth of the United States Navy.

Well then, it's obvious he's trying to boost someones economy.

Personally, I hope Obama continues to fool himself and his supporters that he's on the right track - it will guarantee his loss in 2012.

Gads I hope you're wrong. I'm fully invested in nearly all Goreish stocks at the moment, and see his energy independence policy would make me a pig pot of gold.


---------------------------------
I do believe I'm rapidly getting the hang of this cut, snip, paste, innuendo, lie, kind of thing.

 

[WhoWee]

There seems to be some sort of rage against obama and his trip. He is on a ten day trip to SE asia, not only india. After India he's visiting indonesia, south korea and japan. I thought the trip was to build better relations including trade with these countries.

He signed 10 billion $ deals in india.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-starts-india-trip-with-10-bn-biz-deals/707603/"

"He signed 10 billion $ deals in india." - Let's analyze this statement.

Obama was just handed one of the biggest political losses in recent history. This trip was delayed twice? Now, with all the glory of a victory tour, he takes a huge entourage on a trip to India to create jobs in the US - correct?

The linked article says "On his longest visit to any country, US President Barack Obama today announced USD 10 billion worth deals, including a USD 2 billion equipment sourcing plan of Anil Ambani Group firm Reliance Power and SpiceJet's pruchase of 30 Boeing 737 aircraft.



"As we look to India today, the United States sees an opportunity to sell our exports in one of the fastest growing markets in the world. For America this is a jobs strategy," Obama said kick-starting his Saturday-to-Monday visit to India.



Addressing a business summit, he said US companies were finalising 20-odd deals worth around USD 10 billion (nearly Rs 44,000 crore). "

My question - does anyone think these deals were negotiated this week? Does anyone believe that Obama is responsible for making these deals happen? I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

 

[Gokul43201]

If you want to defend his actions and dismiss the expense of his trip - then do so.

I'm sorry to disappoint you - I have no plans to defend his actions in general. You are the one making claims - it is your job to justify them. Saying that Obama wants to expand welfare programs in the US because an entrepreneur in India was taking measures to improve the "welfare" of his employees is a bogus connection. Saying the trip costs $200 mill a day, when those expenses are unknown, is a bogus claim. Saying that a big fraction of the navy is being diverted away from more important responsibilities, when the Pentagon denies this, is a bogus claim. Saying that eight hundred odd rooms have been booked at a hotel that only has a third of that number of rooms is a bogus claim. I'm more than happy to simply point out exactly what looks more like "nonsense" here.

There's a wall in the Reagan Presidential library that displays the flags of all the countries that Reagan visited. Should we have someone try and justify every one of those visits? Reagan visited 12 countries during his second year in office. So far, Obama has visited 4 countries this year. And that doesn't tell us a thing about whether the trips were justified.

 

[OmCheeto]

I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

If it were impeccable timing, he'd have done it before the election.

hmmm...

Or is it two years early?

hmmm...

Maybe Obama's learning to play the game too.

 

[Gokul43201]

I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

It's impeccable timing to tout job growth measures just after an election?

 

[schizoid]

"He signed 10 billion $ deals in india." - Let's analyze this statement.

Obama was just handed one of the biggest political losses in recent history. This trip was delayed twice? Now, with all the glory of a victory tour, he takes a huge entourage on a trip to India to create jobs in the US - correct?My question - does anyone think these deals were negotiated this week? Does anyone believe that Obama is responsible for making these deals happen? I wonder how many of these deals were put on hold (and for how long) to coordinate with this impeccable timing?

Yes his party lost heavily in the elections, does it mean he has to cancel all visits to other foreign countries and resign from his presidency.

 

[WhoWee]

I'm sorry to disappoint you - I have no plans to defend his actions in general. You are the one making claims - it is your job to justify them. Saying that Obama wants to expand welfare programs in the US because an entrepreneur in India was taking measures to improve the "welfare" of his employees is a bogus connection. Saying the trip costs $200 mill a day, when those expenses are unknown, is a bogus claim. Saying that a big fraction of the navy is being diverted away from more important responsibilities, when the Pentagon denies this, is a bogus claim. Saying that eight hundred odd rooms have been booked at a hotel that only has a third of that number of rooms is a bogus claim. I'm more than happy to simply point out exactly what looks more like "nonsense" here.

There's a wall in the Reagan Presidential library that displays the flags of all the countries that Reagan visited. Should we have someone try and justify every one of those visits? Reagan visited 12 countries during his second year in office. So far, Obama has visited 4 countries this year. And that doesn't tell us a thing about whether the trips were justified.

I am disappointed. I posted news accounts from Indian sources - this is their perspective of the trip. You are correct, we don't know what this trip is actually going to cost taxpayers.

I wonder if the companies (like GE) are paying their own way? Afterall, they clearly went there to finalize very lucrative deals - it's not as if they can't write the expenses off.

As for the hotel, it's also clear that the entire entourage isn't staying in less than 300 rooms - they are staying somewhere nearby.

As for the welfare comment - I was being snide - should have labelled it as such.

As for the Navy, I have no problem with ships sailing into a war zone (region) where the President is visiting. I also noticed that drone attacks have been successful in Pakistan in the past few days.

Again, this thread is about the Tea Party movement and average citizens questioning why and what our leaders are doing. While this trip can be painted as creating jobs, it can also be said these deals would have happened even if he hadn't gone to India - unless he made promises that we don't know about.

 

[jreelawg]

I wonder how much it cost us a day to provide security for the Karzi regime in Afghanistan compared to how much it costs us to provide security for our president on his trip to Asia?

 

[WhoWee]

I wonder how much it cost us a day to provide security for the Karzi regime in Afghanistan compared to how much it costs us to provide security for our president on his trip to Asia?

I think both are valid questions in the context of the Tea Party wanting to know more from the most transparent Presidency of all time.

 

[jreelawg]

Concerning the cost of Obama's trip to Asia, wouldn't the Navy, and the secret service, get paid anyways. wether or not they are in Asia? Is this supposed 200 million a day the cost of the hotel rooms and fuel costs alone?

 

[jreelawg]

I think both are valid questions in the context of the Tea Party wanting to know more from the most transparent Presidency of all time.

And the Tea Party is the most transparent political organization ever right? I remember Angles comment, that she'll answer questions when she gets elected. A campaign tactic of keeping silent on most issues, and refusing to answer questions is a real hopeful change.

 

[WhoWee]

And the Tea Party is the most transparent political organization ever right? I remember Angles comment, that she'll answer questions when she gets elected. A campaign tactic of keeping silent on most issues, and refusing to answer questions is a real hopeful change.

Do you have a link - to help us all remember? The main difference is that Obama promised transparency.

 

[jreelawg]

Do you have a link - to help us all remember? The main difference is that Obama promised transparency.

He promised to try and make government more transparent. This can't be difficult being that he came after the GOP. I think he probably is more transparent than the previous administration. How dumb is it though, to use the argument that he isn't transparent enough when your own preference is for someone drastically less transparent. At least they are honest about it I guess.

 

[WhoWee]

He promised to try and make government more transparent. This can't be difficult being that he came after the GOP. I think he probably is more transparent than the previous administration. How dumb is it though, to use the argument that he isn't transparent enough when your own preference is for someone drastically less transparent. At least they are honest about it I guess.

You said "I remember Angles comment, that she'll answer questions when she gets elected." - now please, do you have a link.

As for the discussion of transparency - it was arguably the cornerstone of Obama's campaign.

 

[jreelawg]

You said "I remember Angles comment, that she'll answer questions when she gets elected." - now please, do you have a link.

As for the discussion of transparency - it was arguably the cornerstone of Obama's campaign.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/sharron_angle_ill_answer_those.html

I might of missed the part where you explained how Obama's office has been Opaque? Was this just about the cost of the trip?

 

[WhoWee]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/sharron_angle_ill_answer_those.html

I might of missed the part where you explained how Obama's office has been Opaque? Was this just about the cost of the trip?

Ok? You have a tape of a reporter chasing her through an airport parking garage?

I thought you had something like this (from her opponent - a few years ago):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18227928/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/20/politics/main2709229.shtml
""I believe myself that the secretary of state, secretary of defense and — you have to make your own decisions as to what the president knows — (know) this war is lost and the surge is not accomplishing anything as indicated by the extreme violence in Iraq yesterday," said Reid."

 

[Gokul43201]

I have a question: Within the available set of fiscal conservatives in Republican primaries, how often has the Tea Party endorsed a more socially liberal candidate over a politically viable social conservative? One that I know of is Paul. Who are the others?

 

[mheslep]

I have a question: Within the available set of fiscal conservatives in Republican primaries, how often has the Tea Party endorsed a more socially liberal candidate over a politically viable social conservative? One that I know of is Paul. Who are the others?

Oh good question. I think there are many cases. Back later ...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have a question: Within the available set of fiscal conservatives in Republican primaries, how often has the Tea Party endorsed a more socially liberal candidate over a politically viable social conservative? One that I know of is Paul. Who are the others?

Paul is socially liberal?

Did anyone see Paul on Parker-Spitzer yesterday? Interestingly, one of the only buget cuts he doesn't support [though he won't name any specific viable cuts] is one that reduces fees to doctors for Medicare services. Parker pointed out this constitutes either 30% or 50% [not sure now which number was cited] of Rand Paul's income!

Paul thought Spitzer was being unfair. What a flimflam man.

 

[Gokul43201]

Paul is socially liberal?

Compared to his Primary opponent, Grayson, I believe he is. Paul opposes the Patriot Act, says he would have voted against the Iraq War, and says medical marijuana ought to be a states' rights issue that the Feds should not have a say in. On all these specific cases, I believe Grayson held a more statist - and more mainstream Republican - position.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Compared to his Primary opponent, Grayson, I believe he is. Paul opposes the Patriot Act, says he would have voted against the Iraq War, and says medical marijuana ought to be a states' rights issue that the Feds should not have a say in. On all these specific cases, I believe Grayson held a more statist - and more mainstream Republican - position.

Ah, I see.

I see these as traditional conservative values - one's that I do agree with and in part [conceptually] the basis for my own history as a Republican. However, his comments about civil rights [denial of services based on race] come to mind as an outlier.