- #71
alexandra
A fair comment, 2Cents.2CentsWorth said:
The surprising origins of the current Jihad
- News
- Thread starter alexandra
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Current
In summary, it was revealed that during the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars on textbooks for Afghan schoolchildren that contained violent images and militant Islamic teachings. These textbooks were used as the core curriculum in the Afghan school system, even by the Taliban, who scratched out human faces in accordance with their strict fundamentalist beliefs. This has contributed to the perpetuation of a culture of violence in Afghanistan, as noted by experts like Doug Pritchard. The history of Afghanistan also shows a long-standing tradition of tribal revolts and conflicts, further reinforcing the idea that warriors are created rather than naturally existing.
- #72
alexandra
The textbook developers get 0/10 for subtletyBurnsys said:
Last edited by a moderator:
- #73
Bilal
I was child in 80s during the war with Soviet. In that moment they filled Palestine (under Israeli occupation) by all types of Mujahideen propaganda. We could get any tapes or books about mujahideen for free ... the Hollywood movies showing Rambo fighting with mujahedeen against the Soviet.
Many of people used to shout in public places and mosques : please we should unite with American (people of the book-Christian) against those evil atheists (USSR).
I do believe that such huge propaganda is financed by USA and its alliance to encourage the half-educated people to join the war.
Many of people used to shout in public places and mosques : please we should unite with American (people of the book-Christian) against those evil atheists (USSR).
I do believe that such huge propaganda is financed by USA and its alliance to encourage the half-educated people to join the war.
- #74
Yonoz
- 25
- 0
Who's "they"? Was it the Americans? The Israelis? Why would "they" fill the occupied territories with "Mujahideen propaganda"? From your previous childhood recollections, I would assume the IDF ruler would censor movies showing Islamic insurgency...Bilal said:
How would that work exactly? What could the Americans gain from this? Would the Palestinians organise a military and send it to fight in Afghanistan?Bilal said:
- #75
edward
- 62
- 166
Origins of the Jihad
I think what Bilal was trying to say was that the original intentions of the U.S. in inspiring Islamic radicalism to combat communism in Afganistan backfired in our faces. The fundamentalist Islamic movement that we helped establish in Afganistan has spread to other countries, and is now our nemeses. The children educated in the manner described in the link are now the grown men with whom Americans must militarily engage in Afganistan.
America, as it has other times in the past, made an error in judgement that has come back to haunt us.
I think what Bilal was trying to say was that the original intentions of the U.S. in inspiring Islamic radicalism to combat communism in Afganistan backfired in our faces. The fundamentalist Islamic movement that we helped establish in Afganistan has spread to other countries, and is now our nemeses. The children educated in the manner described in the link are now the grown men with whom Americans must militarily engage in Afganistan.
America, as it has other times in the past, made an error in judgement that has come back to haunt us.
Last edited:
- #76
Bilal
we call those people as ''Takfiri'' (people who claim to have the truth and rejects the others including muslims". Actually their ideas exist since centuries, and the Muslims armies (e.g. Abbasid and Ayubi Empires) spent many years to destroy them completely. Just I would like to show that those people got a lot of support from USA in 80s to fight the Soviet for religious reasons……
I doubt these groups will get such power without the war of Afghanistan and without the support of USA.
It is enough to say, that we never hear about such groups before 1979 (the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan) because nobody in our countries willing to accept the ‘’ideology of those people” which based on pure “fascist theocracy”, the same as our nations rejected them in early Islam and during Crusaders wars.
They used to be isolated individuals who failed to integrate in their societies till the war of Afghanistan started , so they got a lot of money and encouragement to establish long-term strong infrastructure ... (CIA believed in that time that communism will survive for several centuries, so long term strategy of these groups is important)
For example, one of related historical groups called The Hashshashin (also Hashishin), or Assassins (which used now to describe the terrorists) in the 11th century. In that time Muslims wasted more money and soldiers to defeat those Hashashin than their wars with crusaders.
http://www.grohol.com/psypsych/Hashshashin
I do not claim that Alqaeda is follow the same ideology of those Hashashin , but at least they used their tactics.
I doubt these groups will get such power without the war of Afghanistan and without the support of USA.
It is enough to say, that we never hear about such groups before 1979 (the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan) because nobody in our countries willing to accept the ‘’ideology of those people” which based on pure “fascist theocracy”, the same as our nations rejected them in early Islam and during Crusaders wars.
They used to be isolated individuals who failed to integrate in their societies till the war of Afghanistan started , so they got a lot of money and encouragement to establish long-term strong infrastructure ... (CIA believed in that time that communism will survive for several centuries, so long term strategy of these groups is important)
For example, one of related historical groups called The Hashshashin (also Hashishin), or Assassins (which used now to describe the terrorists) in the 11th century. In that time Muslims wasted more money and soldiers to defeat those Hashashin than their wars with crusaders.
http://www.grohol.com/psypsych/Hashshashin
I do not claim that Alqaeda is follow the same ideology of those Hashashin , but at least they used their tactics.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #77
edward
- 62
- 166
Great post Bilal. You can speak for yourself very effectively. I of course look at this from an Americans point of view. I do, however, acknowledge and appreciate your point of view.
- #78
Bilal
Welcome Edward
I apologies for my poor English. I studied this language for many years (since elementary school) and I still have some troubles in the grammar!
By the way, we should understand that is not all Islamic organization are the same … for example the current Turkish government originated from the ‘’Muslims brothers movement”. This is the largest movement in ME which exist almost in every country. Although their wing in Palestine (Hamas) uses “suicide bombers” tactics against Israel, they believe in democracy and they reject the ideas of Alqaeda to establish fascist theocratic State. They accept to live in socialist or secular country and to be in the opposite if they lose the election.
In fact there is real ideological war between these Islamic movements since many years. Our problem is only with those who want to divide the world as ‘’good vs. evil’’.
I apologies for my poor English. I studied this language for many years (since elementary school) and I still have some troubles in the grammar!
edward said:
By the way, we should understand that is not all Islamic organization are the same … for example the current Turkish government originated from the ‘’Muslims brothers movement”. This is the largest movement in ME which exist almost in every country. Although their wing in Palestine (Hamas) uses “suicide bombers” tactics against Israel, they believe in democracy and they reject the ideas of Alqaeda to establish fascist theocratic State. They accept to live in socialist or secular country and to be in the opposite if they lose the election.
In fact there is real ideological war between these Islamic movements since many years. Our problem is only with those who want to divide the world as ‘’good vs. evil’’.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #79
Yonoz
- 25
- 0
Apparently you are unfamiliar with the specific details of Bilal's comments as well as Bilal's previous claims in this forum.edward said:
Bilal claimed in the past he experienced very tough censorship by the Israeli military ruler during his childhood in the occupied territories. This last claim stands in sharp contrast to what he described.
He also made various other claims that did not withstand the test of proof IMO.
- #80
Bilal
Nobody can deny that Israel who control our education system till 1993 and they did not let us to learn about our country, but this has nothing to do with the topic here.
Simply, In West Bank and in the pro USA Muslims countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt ...) , it was so easy to get books, tapes and information about Mujahideen in Afghanistan.I presented my country as example from my real life showing how it was in ME in that era.
Simply, In West Bank and in the pro USA Muslims countries (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt ...) , it was so easy to get books, tapes and information about Mujahideen in Afghanistan.I presented my country as example from my real life showing how it was in ME in that era.
Yonoz said:
- #81
alexandra
This link was a great find, edward; thanks - not only does it have much relevant information, but it also comes from a very credible source, Columbia Universityedward said:
I just came across yet another interesting passage from it (I have bolded some statements to draw attention to them):
Last edited by a moderator:
- #82
Burnsys
- 66
- 0
Do you remember Bill O'Reilly vs Jeremy Glick?
With William Casey as the director of the CIA, the largest covert operation in history was launched after Reagan signed the National Security Decision Directive 166, calling for American efforts to drive Soviet forces from Afghanistan by all means available. US counter-insurgency experts worked closely with the ISI in organizing mujahideen groups and in planning operations inside Afghanistan. Indeed, it was evident to residents in Islamabad and Peshawar in the 1980s that large numbers of Americans were present and involved in mysterious activities. But the most important contribution of the US was to create international linkages and bring in men and material from around the Arab world and beyond. The most hardened and ideologically dedicated men were sought on the logic that they would be the best fighters. Advertisements, paid for from CIA funds, were placed in newspapers and newsletters around the world offering inducements and motivations to join the Jihad.
Perhaps the most decisive single weapon was the shoulder-fired ground-to-air missile known as the Stinger. From 1986 the Afghan mujahideen started receiving Blowpipe and Stinger ground-to-air missiles from Britain and the United States. The first shipment went exclusively to the fundamentalist wing of the resistance; that is, the three groups favored by the ISI and headed by Hekmatyar, Khalis, and Rabbani. The new weapons made Soviet helicopters and low-flying air-support missions exceedingly vulnerable and, even today, helicopter and aircraft wrecks litter Afghanistans landscape.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:qHIXgxxP5REJ:www.columbia.edu/cu/sipa/REGIONAL/IAS/documents/hoodbhoypaper.doc+american+textbooks+afghanistan+russia&hl=en
With William Casey as the director of the CIA, the largest covert operation in history was launched after Reagan signed the National Security Decision Directive 166, calling for American efforts to drive Soviet forces from Afghanistan by all means available. US counter-insurgency experts worked closely with the ISI in organizing mujahideen groups and in planning operations inside Afghanistan. Indeed, it was evident to residents in Islamabad and Peshawar in the 1980s that large numbers of Americans were present and involved in mysterious activities. But the most important contribution of the US was to create international linkages and bring in men and material from around the Arab world and beyond. The most hardened and ideologically dedicated men were sought on the logic that they would be the best fighters. Advertisements, paid for from CIA funds, were placed in newspapers and newsletters around the world offering inducements and motivations to join the Jihad.
Perhaps the most decisive single weapon was the shoulder-fired ground-to-air missile known as the Stinger. From 1986 the Afghan mujahideen started receiving Blowpipe and Stinger ground-to-air missiles from Britain and the United States. The first shipment went exclusively to the fundamentalist wing of the resistance; that is, the three groups favored by the ISI and headed by Hekmatyar, Khalis, and Rabbani. The new weapons made Soviet helicopters and low-flying air-support missions exceedingly vulnerable and, even today, helicopter and aircraft wrecks litter Afghanistans landscape.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:qHIXgxxP5REJ:www.columbia.edu/cu/sipa/REGIONAL/IAS/documents/hoodbhoypaper.doc+american+textbooks+afghanistan+russia&hl=en
Last edited by a moderator:
- #83
Art
Excellent link to O'Reilly. I despise that guy. Unfortunately he typifies the right-wing conservatives in the USA. They have an unshakeable belief that they are right and everybody else is misguided and if you can't be convinced to change your viewpoint to theirs' then you are simply a troublemaker who needs to be shouted down.Burnsys said:
The only good news is that they appear to be becoming more and more desperate in their propoganda which IMO suggests they fear their bubble is about to burst.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #84
pallidin
- 2,209
- 2
Well, I say let's cut to the chase.
Is there any hope for a cessation in al-Qaeda based terrorist acts?
And, if so, how can this be done?
Is there any hope for a cessation in al-Qaeda based terrorist acts?
And, if so, how can this be done?
- #85
The Smoking Man
- 67
- 0
I fear we have equal 'jihadists' in the USA.Art said:
Most of you will probbly remember the comments made between Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwel immediately post 9/11 blaming the event on non-christians and then have read the subsequent apology from Robertson distancing himself from the comments.
Well, I hate to report back that there has been some revisionism going on.
While http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/falwell.htm#washpost and truthorfiction.com still reports the story as it happened, how has the credibility of a nation gone from the condemnation of these words to support for a president who claimed he would 'ban gay marriage' to gain the vote from the pulpit while America wallows in Iraq?
How is it that the 'Preacher in Chief' can still stand at the 'pulpit of power' having gained the presidency a second time by mobilizing the religious right over an issue he now refuses to act upon (read the exit polls as to WHY they voted for him), claim a renewed mandate in Iraq and then blatantly make statements against all the reports created by his own 'commissions' regarding terrorism, WMD etc.?
Lieutenant General William G. Boykin said:
Anyone stating that this is a 'one sided jihad' is seriously mistaken when one considers the training received in the US military:
- #86
kat
- 42
- 0
A very good source of information on this is "“Nationalism, Revolution, and Jihad: Im-ages of Violence in Afghan Primary Education Text-books", Sorry, not available online as far as I know. Interestingly enough the Soviet books also were full of military propoganda which also appears to be echoed in much of the "Jihad" rhetoric of today.
We really need to find a way to disallow this type of thing from happening. I'm not sure exactly how we could adjust or system of governing to do this. I'm really more interested in ideas to improve longterm foriegn policy to avoid empowering dictators, undermining democracies and...of course distributing violent textbooks to children.
I can appreciate the AHA! factor here..but really, I'm don't think I'm quite willing to just sit back and take it because of something that happened while I was not even of voting age and most Americans were not even aware of happening.
Also, I don't think you can legitimately say it was the birth of Jihad, I would be more willing to believe that the text were based on beliefs already present within the society particularly since it was actually the seven party alliance of Mujahidin that oversaw the writing of the actual textbooks.
We really need to find a way to disallow this type of thing from happening. I'm not sure exactly how we could adjust or system of governing to do this. I'm really more interested in ideas to improve longterm foriegn policy to avoid empowering dictators, undermining democracies and...of course distributing violent textbooks to children.
I can appreciate the AHA! factor here..but really, I'm don't think I'm quite willing to just sit back and take it because of something that happened while I was not even of voting age and most Americans were not even aware of happening.
Also, I don't think you can legitimately say it was the birth of Jihad, I would be more willing to believe that the text were based on beliefs already present within the society particularly since it was actually the seven party alliance of Mujahidin that oversaw the writing of the actual textbooks.
- #87
edward
- 62
- 166
Birth of Jihad
KAT
It may not have been the birth of jihad, but it was a driving factor that led to todays problems in the area. And it was the University of Nebraska who produced the textbooks with Islamic oversight. Most importantly, the US government is still making stupid mistakes in judgement.
QUOTE:
But the Mujahideen had a lot of help to create this warrior culture in the school system from the United States, which paid for the Mujahideen propaganda in the textbooks. It was all part of American Cold War policy in the 1980s, helping the Mujahideen defeat the Soviet army on Afghan soil.
QUOTE:
University of Nebraska
The University of Nebraska was front and center in that effort. The university did the publishing and had an Afghan study center and a director who was ready to help defeat the "Red Menace."
KAT
It may not have been the birth of jihad, but it was a driving factor that led to todays problems in the area. And it was the University of Nebraska who produced the textbooks with Islamic oversight. Most importantly, the US government is still making stupid mistakes in judgement.
QUOTE:
But the Mujahideen had a lot of help to create this warrior culture in the school system from the United States, which paid for the Mujahideen propaganda in the textbooks. It was all part of American Cold War policy in the 1980s, helping the Mujahideen defeat the Soviet army on Afghan soil.
QUOTE:
University of Nebraska
The University of Nebraska was front and center in that effort. The university did the publishing and had an Afghan study center and a director who was ready to help defeat the "Red Menace."
Last edited:
- #88
kat
- 42
- 0
Hmmm, perhaps.edward said:
Could you give me a short list of what you consider to be the predominant problems in that area today?
Also, if this is the "Origin" of the current "Jihad" then we must prove a connection between afghanistan educated children (Now young adults) and terrorist attacks against western targets. Which known terrorist were actually afhanistan educated? How many held at Gitmo, are actually Afghanistan citizens? My sense was that most were from other areas?
Hmm, I think the greatest issue has been shortsightedness and a lack of respect for human beings who are not anglo saxon and of so called "Western" cultures. It's also not "Conservative" or "Right winged" issue. The so called "Left" and "Liberal" faction of this country has been just as guilty of having a blind eye towards human rights issues outside of the western culture.
- #89
alexandra
This paper is referenced - it is based on research conducted using mainstream published credible sources (books published by South End Press, Vanguard Books, Cambridge University Press, Harvard University Press), and it is published by Columbia University (and, by implication, acknowledged as an academic paper). It therefore constitutes a researched academic paper and is thus a credible source of information, at least in my opinion.Evo said:This isn't an official Columbia University posting. Oh come now alexandra, I thought better of you. Any student can post anything until they are discovered and deleted by the university.
- #90
Evo
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
- 24,017
- 3,338
I haven't said anything about the contents of the link, only correcting your assumption that the university endorses it.alexandra said:
Edward, this answers your post also.
- #91
ron damon
- 20
- 0
- #92
Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
2023 Award
- 22,186
- 6,854
The current "jihad" is somewhat amorphous - because it involves a broad network of groups.
Part of the network can be attributed to the Afghan mujahideen, who were supported by many parties, including Osama bin Laden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
Another actor is this matter is Adnan Khashoggi, who along with people like Oliver North, George H. W. Bush, Ronald Reagan are implicated in the Iran-Contra scandal - http://www.nndb.com/group/815/000044683/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra
http://www.rotten.com/library/history/political-scandal/iran-contra/
(I don't vouch for the accuracy of these websites, but Wiki is usually considered reasonably accurate)
The control of US military aid in Afghanistan was not as tight as it should have been.
Part of the network can be attributed to the Afghan mujahideen, who were supported by many parties, including Osama bin Laden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
Another actor is this matter is Adnan Khashoggi, who along with people like Oliver North, George H. W. Bush, Ronald Reagan are implicated in the Iran-Contra scandal - http://www.nndb.com/group/815/000044683/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra
http://www.rotten.com/library/history/political-scandal/iran-contra/
(I don't vouch for the accuracy of these websites, but Wiki is usually considered reasonably accurate)
from http://www.payvand.com/news/05/feb/1000.html
New push for Afghan disarmament
The control of US military aid in Afghanistan was not as tight as it should have been.
- #93
loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
- 1,830
- 5
Here's a piece written by the same man talking about how the Pakistani national curriculum (his actual area of expertise, aside from nuclear physics) teaches children to be xenophobic and hateful of others, while being obedient and unquestioning of their Islamic leaders.
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2000-09/14hoodbhoy.htm
Looks like this goes on all over the Muslim world. Note that he doesn't implicate anybody but Pakistan itself here. No blaming the US.
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2000-09/14hoodbhoy.htm
Looks like this goes on all over the Muslim world. Note that he doesn't implicate anybody but Pakistan itself here. No blaming the US.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #94
GENIERE
kat said:
Yikes! Kat I suggest some alcohol therapy. I’ll stick with Evo.
She did, however, delete a really good joke I posted. It would not have offended more than 1 or 2 billion people.
...
- #95
Evo
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
- 24,017
- 3,338
Yes, I should have ignored Smoking Man, I am guilty of derailing the thread in hopes he would understand that he didn't understand. Deleting and steering the thread back.kat said:
Zero locked threads alot, didn't he?
Well, I left it up until the threats started coming in if I didn't delete it. I thought it was funny, if taken the right way.Geniere said:
Last edited:
- #96
Evo
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
- 24,017
- 3,338
edward, I do owe you an apology for not checking if there was some reason your link was in African studies.edward said:
- #97
Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
2023 Award
- 22,186
- 6,854
Regarding certain personal attacks upon Evo (the one to which I refer was removed, and rightfully so), it is really unfair to Evo, especially when in the immediately preceding post (1 hr earlier):
Evo is quite correct - just because something is posted on a website, that does not constitute endorsement per se, unless it pertains to business of the university, or it's academic and related programs.
Unfortunately, it took some time to verify that the citation was a paper in a conference held at the university.
Even, so Universities and other institutions often offer disclaimers regarding papers presented by outside parties.
----------------------------------
Re: the personal attacks. Come on folks, be nice and stop attacking the posters - one should respond (and be critical) to the posts. And provide evidence to support one's position.
It is most appropriate to contact a SuperMentor by PM, and not by personal attack in a forum.
----------------------------------
As for the OP, yes the US has historically had major problems in its foreign policy (so has every other nation, IMO). In this case, supplying textbooks of highly questionable content ( a fact mentioned in many other sources besides the Washington Post ). While it is entirely probable, given the number and distribution of these textbooks, that some of those students are now part of the "jihad", no direct evidence has been forthcoming.
Certainly US support for mujahideen has perhaps backfired. The concern was raised almost 20 years ago in the intelligence community. The term is "blowback". Unfortunately, for various reasons, it was not addressed as effectively as should have been, and we now have the significant problem of international terrorism.
Let's all be more thoughtful about what we are posting, and more respectful of other people, even if we disagree with the other's position.
Evo said:
Evo is quite correct - just because something is posted on a website, that does not constitute endorsement per se, unless it pertains to business of the university, or it's academic and related programs.
Unfortunately, it took some time to verify that the citation was a paper in a conference held at the university.
Even, so Universities and other institutions often offer disclaimers regarding papers presented by outside parties.
----------------------------------
Re: the personal attacks. Come on folks, be nice and stop attacking the posters - one should respond (and be critical) to the posts. And provide evidence to support one's position.
It is most appropriate to contact a SuperMentor by PM, and not by personal attack in a forum.
----------------------------------
As for the OP, yes the US has historically had major problems in its foreign policy (so has every other nation, IMO). In this case, supplying textbooks of highly questionable content ( a fact mentioned in many other sources besides the Washington Post ). While it is entirely probable, given the number and distribution of these textbooks, that some of those students are now part of the "jihad", no direct evidence has been forthcoming.
Certainly US support for mujahideen has perhaps backfired. The concern was raised almost 20 years ago in the intelligence community. The term is "blowback". Unfortunately, for various reasons, it was not addressed as effectively as should have been, and we now have the significant problem of international terrorism.
Let's all be more thoughtful about what we are posting, and more respectful of other people, even if we disagree with the other's position.
Last edited:
- #98
solutions in a box
kidnap and murder
Wow
This is the only thread that I have ever seen that was first kidnapped by trolls and then murderded by a monotor-mentor.
If anyone wants to know the real reason why the USA kept supporting the Taliban even after the Russians left, it was because Unocal wanted a stable government so that they could build a pipeline in Afghanistan.
just google: (Unocal Afghanistan oil pipe line)
Or just for kicks: (Cheney Afghanistan oil pipeline)
For a comprehnsive read go to the link below and its sub links:
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q7.html
This link is endorsed by:
Uncle Jeds internet news and live fishin bait sales.
Wow
This is the only thread that I have ever seen that was first kidnapped by trolls and then murderded by a monotor-mentor.
If anyone wants to know the real reason why the USA kept supporting the Taliban even after the Russians left, it was because Unocal wanted a stable government so that they could build a pipeline in Afghanistan.
just google: (Unocal Afghanistan oil pipe line)
Or just for kicks: (Cheney Afghanistan oil pipeline)
For a comprehnsive read go to the link below and its sub links:
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q7.html
This link is endorsed by:
Uncle Jeds internet news and live fishin bait sales.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #99
GENIERE
solutions in a box said:
Yeah! It does seem silly. I would have blasted a canal through Iran.
...
- #100
Burnsys
- 66
- 0
Wow. remember the textbooks:
University of Nebraska at Omaha was teaching kids about speed of kalashnicov bullets and how to kill rusians with the cia money (United States Agency for International Development)
Well they also teach afghans to build pipelines with Unocal money
University of Nebraska at Omaha was teaching kids about speed of kalashnicov bullets and how to kill rusians with the cia money (United States Agency for International Development)
Well they also teach afghans to build pipelines with Unocal money
Last edited by a moderator:
- #101
solutions in a box
more than I wanted to know about big oil
The following link took me totally by surprize. Not so much for it's content but because of the venue it appears in. The article, originaly from the Asian Times, in this link is published in "Alexander's Gas and Oil Connection"
Alexander's is a trade journal for the oil industry and based in Europe. It primarily deals with information and technology pertaining to the Oil and gas industry.
My God if this is what is really happening in Afghanistan we have been lied to by our own government for over 20 years.
Even worse, I hate to think that this is what the rest of the world thinks of us. Other countries and many large companies are involved. But it appears that the USA is the ringleader.
I woud actually be very pleased if someone can disprove this informaton with a credible link. I can not seem to find one.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm
The following link took me totally by surprize. Not so much for it's content but because of the venue it appears in. The article, originaly from the Asian Times, in this link is published in "Alexander's Gas and Oil Connection"
Alexander's is a trade journal for the oil industry and based in Europe. It primarily deals with information and technology pertaining to the Oil and gas industry.
My God if this is what is really happening in Afghanistan we have been lied to by our own government for over 20 years.
Even worse, I hate to think that this is what the rest of the world thinks of us. Other countries and many large companies are involved. But it appears that the USA is the ringleader.
I woud actually be very pleased if someone can disprove this informaton with a credible link. I can not seem to find one.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm
Last edited by a moderator:
- #102
The Smoking Man
- 67
- 0
solutions in a box said:
This should knock you for a loop then (not to disprove but to add another shovel full to what you already know):
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html
Also: This link is endorsed by:
Uncle Jeds internet news and live fishin bait sales.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #103
Mercator
I'm amazed that this can still amaze people.
- #104
The Smoking Man
- 67
- 0
Don't you feel kinda sorry? ... Like he just found out there was no Santa or Easter Bunny?Mercator said:
Oh, by the way ... Did you hear about the TOOTH FAIRY!?
- #105
Mercator
Vampireeza Rice?The Smoking Man said: