- #141
apeiron
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PhizzicsPhan said:So I'll amend my statement: "Nature abhors jumps except at the most fundamental quantum level; and she particularly abhors jumps once the level of cell-based life has been reached."
I would put it differently. Nature love discontinuity over all scales as much as it loves continuity over all scales.
Reductionism always wants to reduce the intrinsic complexity of polar opposites to an either/or. Either nature must love one thing, or it must love the other. But a systems approach is based on dependent co-arising. Polar alternatives are in fact the creatively complementary. They are the synergistic.
So it would be "against nature" for one pole to be suppressed at the expense of the other. Because nothing can actually exist as a persisting whole, a lasting state of structure and process, unless there is that synergistic interaction to power it.
If you think of the actual "science of complexity" that arose in the 1980s, it was all about the "edge of chaos", about self-organising criticality. And this was completely based on the dichotomy of the discrete and the continuous in a "scalefree" (ie: a powerlaw distribution of scale) fashion.
In a critical system, the product of a persisting dissipative balance, you have to have a constant balance of integration and differentiation over all scales of observation. Continuity and discontinuity is a fractal story.
So where nature is "lively", it is marked by this critical balance that loves continuity and discontinuity with equal vigor.
And then for the complex to itself become complex - to get systems arising within a system - you need the radical discontinuity of the epistemic cut. But of course, by the same argument, you have to look around for the matching radical level of continuity that must also be produced in the process.
And this is why we have life and mind as systems which display far greater levels of autonomy, integrity, autopoiesis, ascendancy, or whatever you want to label it, than the surrounding non-living realm of entropification and dissipative structure.
By introducing the sharp boundary-making device of the epistemic cut, life and mind moves itself into a separate realm of "subjective" existence. It has a continuity of existence (represented by its goals, memories, anticipations) that is removed from the hurly burly of the "objective" realm.
So again, your metaphysical orientation is reductionist. If nature displays a fruitful dichotomy, your urge is to reduce that inherent complexity to a singular pole of existence.
Nature produces "mind" as its highest level of complexity. A complex complexity in that it involves systems within systems, worlds within worlds. But you want to break that down so that there is only the monadically simple. Mind gets reduced to a property of substance.
Of course, you then say that there is a level of ur-stuff below that. You talk of the ether/brahman/apeiron. There is a base level that is a pure potential, and not yet either mind or matter.
So in the end, you agree reductionism does not work. The simple is not simple enough if it is something that definitely and crisply exists. But now you have still scrunched up the notion of mind, and all the complex complexity it represents in its full splendour, down to trivialised "drops of experience". You have made what you seek to explain so reduced, it has become a hard and discrete property of matter - the "inner qualia".
While this shrinking of the critical issues to microscopic scale then makes the essential transition - the development of a simple ur-potential into a complex world - harder to see, it does not actually remove the problem. You still have to explain how there is this evolution from the ether/brahman/apeiron level to a level where something actually exists, whether this first level of existence is double aspect panpsychic or not.