Time Derivatives of Expectation Value of X^2 in a Harmonic Oscillator

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on the time derivatives of the expectation value of X^2 in a harmonic oscillator context. It establishes that the first derivative of the expectation value relates to the momentum operators, while the second derivative involves the commutator with the Hamiltonian. Participants explore the manipulation of the commutator to derive a relationship involving the Hamiltonian and the operators X and P. There is some confusion regarding the use of the time-independent Schrödinger equation versus the Hamiltonian definition for deriving the final formula. Ultimately, it is concluded that algebraic substitutions can simplify the process to achieve the desired equivalence.
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Homework Statement
Prove that ##\frac{d^2}{dt^2} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle = 4 \omega^2 \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle + \frac{1}{m}\langle \psi (t) \vert H \vert \psi (t) \rangle## for the simple harmonic oscillator.
Relevant Equations
##\frac{i}{\hbar}[H, X] = \frac{1}{m} P##
##\frac{i}{\hbar}[H, P] = -m\omega^2X##
##\frac{d}{dt} \langle \psi (t) \vert A \vert \psi (t) \rangle = \frac{i}{\hbar} \langle \psi (t) \vert [H,A] \vert \psi (t) \rangle## if A is time-independent.
I can show that ##\frac{d}{dt} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle = \frac{1}{m} \langle \psi (t) \vert PX+XP \vert \psi (t) \rangle##.

Taking another derivative with respect to time of this, I get ##\frac{d^2}{dt^2} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle = \frac{i}{m \hbar} \langle \psi (t) \vert [H, PX+XP] \vert \psi (t) \rangle##.

However, I'm not sure how to manipulate this into something that matches the right side of the equation.
I can expand the commutator in the middle to get
##[H, PX + XP] = [H, PX] + [H, XP] = [H, P]X + P[H, X] + [H, X]P + X[H,P]##

I can then substitute in the commutator values known from above (ignoring the factor of ##\frac{i}{\hbar}## momentarily):
##[H, PX + XP] = (-m\omega^2 X)X + P(\frac{1}{m}P) + (\frac{1}{m}P)P + X(-m\omega^2 X) = -2m\omega^2 X^2 + \frac{2}{m}P^2##

I see a way to get from ##P^2## to ##H## using the time-independent Schrödinger equation, but I took derivatives with respect to time to arrive at this equation. Is there another path besides using the time-independent Schrödinger equation, or is it okay to use the time-independent form here?
 
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You don't use time independent Schrodinger equation to pass from ##P^2## to ##H##, but you use the definition of your Hamiltonian(I assume this is possibly what you meant, but saying it just in case). Hamiltonian for harmonic oscillator is, as you know:
$$H = \frac{P^2}{2m} + \frac{m\omega^2X^2}{2}$$

Edit: Also, you seem to have done this correctly so far, but I don't see the final formula appearing in that form, although it would be similar. So I'm not sure whether there's a mistake in the text of the exercise, as your formulas look all good(or maybe I missed a mistake of yours somehow).
 
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Thanks!
I was trying something complicated with the Schrödinger equation because I thought I would get something similar but not quite the final formula if I just used the straight Hamiltonian.
Turns out all you need is a few messy algebraic substitutions to get the two sides equivalent :)
 
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