Trying to Wire a Washing Machine Motor To Power a Grain Mill

[jim hardy]

I can't quite see the numbers in your picture of blue plug & wires, maybe you could annotate it in Paint...

Assuming they're as shown on diagram below

1. With your ohm-meter make sure NONE of the wires reads continuity to motor frame.
2. With your ohm-meter verify a few ohms, probably two or so, thru hi drive winding 6 to 2. Write down your reading.
3. With your ohm-meter verify a few ohms, probably two or so, thru lodrive winding 5 to 2. Write down your reading.
4 With your ohm-meter verify a few ohms, probably four or so, thru both windings 6 to 5. Write down your reading. Steps 1 and 2 should add to same result.
5. With your ohm-meter verify almost zero ohms, probably less than 1, thru thermal overload 2 to 1.
Now we're pretty sure we understand how motor is wired.

6. Make yourself a switched outlet and cord so you can control motor . I like one of these in a plastic box.

Cut the square female end off an old three prong computer monitor or similar cord so you can connect to motor wires. Put a lug on the green wire for safety earthing ground. That ALWAYS goes under a screw on motor's metal frame for safety. You knew that.but who else might read this ??Now you're ready to test run your motor.
7. Turn off switch.
8. Connect power cord to hi speed winding, 6 to 1, using insulated wire nuts, THEN plug it in.

9. Stand clear of motor, briefly turn switch on then back off. Motor should hum and vibrate real loud - it's drawing locked rotor current - but should not rotate. Don't leave it on more than a couple seconds, that high current heats the windings quickly.

.10. Spin the shaft by hand, flip the switch on while it's still turning. Motor should accelerate and run smooth&quiet. You may have to help it get started. Listen and feel for rough bearings.. Let it run a few minutes. Sniff for that "burning varnish" smell.
11. Turn off, let it coast to a stop. Feel for hot spots.
12. Repeat 10 but spin it the other way. It should run that way too.
13. Repeat 11..
14. Move one power wire from hi speed winding to low, ie from 6 to 5.
15. Repeat 9 thru 13. It should run smooth but slower, both directions.

That should be enough to keep you busy for a couple hours !
Success this far means you have a motor with both run windings good

For our next act we'll figure out how to make it start.
I've seen PTC thermistors on fridge motor start windings. Got a dead color TV around? They have one in the degaussing coil around CRT.

Good luck with the relay..

Grain mill... Be sure to mount motor so you can feel it to check for running too hot, or install an AC ammeter.. By the time you smell it the damage is done.
old jim

 

[jim hardy]

Hmmm do i see "vertical shaft down only" on nameplate ? I'd guess shaft horizontal is okay.

 

[BLANKAJ]

I think this was the missing start run relay.
I will go through the steps you layed out and see how it goes.
Thank you again for all your help.
I will update once I get some results.

 

[BLANKAJ]

I also noticed the shaft down note, I hope that was more of an installation note for the washer, and not that the motor requires some special mounting.

 

[BLANKAJ]

I can't quite see the numbers in your picture of blue plug & wires, maybe you could annotate it in Paint...

Assuming they're as shown on diagram below

1. With your ohm-meter make sure NONE of the wires reads continuity to motor frame.
2. With your ohm-meter verify a few ohms, probably two or so, thru hi drive winding 6 to 2. Write down your reading.
3. With your ohm-meter verify a few ohms, probably two or so, thru lodrive winding 5 to 2. Write down your reading.
4 With your ohm-meter verify a few ohms, probably four or so, thru both windings 6 to 5. Write down your reading. Steps 1 and 2 should add to same result.
5. With your ohm-meter verify almost zero ohms, probably less than 1, thru thermal overload 2 to 1.
Now we're pretty sure we understand how motor is wired.
View attachment 97976
6. Make yourself a switched outlet and cord so you can control motor . I like one of these in a plastic box.
View attachment 97977
Cut the square female end off an old three prong computer monitor or similar cord so you can connect to motor wires. Put a lug on the green wire for safety earthing ground. That ALWAYS goes under a screw on motor's metal frame for safety. You knew that.but who else might read this ??Now you're ready to test run your motor.
7. Turn off switch.
8. Connect power cord to hi speed winding, 6 to 1, using insulated wire nuts, THEN plug it in.

9. Stand clear of motor, briefly turn switch on then back off. Motor should hum and vibrate real loud - it's drawing locked rotor current - but should not rotate. Don't leave it on more than a couple seconds, that high current heats the windings quickly.

.10. Spin the shaft by hand, flip the switch on while it's still turning. Motor should accelerate and run smooth&quiet. You may have to help it get started. Listen and feel for rough bearings.. Let it run a few minutes. Sniff for that "burning varnish" smell.
11. Turn off, let it coast to a stop. Feel for hot spots.
12. Repeat 10 but spin it the other way. It should run that way too.
13. Repeat 11..
14. Move one power wire from hi speed winding to low, ie from 6 to 5.
15. Repeat 9 thru 13. It should run smooth but slower, both directions.

That should be enough to keep you busy for a couple hours !
Success this far means you have a motor with both run windings good

For our next act we'll figure out how to make it start.
I've seen PTC thermistors on fridge motor start windings. Got a dead color TV around? They have one in the degaussing coil around CRT.

Good luck with the relay..

Grain mill... Be sure to mount motor so you can feel it to check for running too hot, or install an AC ammeter.. By the time you smell it the damage is done.
old jim

OK, I ran through these steps and got the results you said I would! I'm feeling pretty good now.
thru high drive winding (6 to 2) I got 3.0 Ohms
thru low drive winding (5 to 2) I got 6.3 Ohms
thru both windings (6 to 5) I got 9.1 Ohms (doesn't add up exactly, but close. I assume that's ok.)
thru thermal overload (2 to 1) I got 0.1 Ohms
I connected 6-1 and turned the switch, got the hum, turned it off. Then spun it and turned it on once in each direction. ran both ways at high speed. Then did it again at low speed, complete success!
Now to figure out how to start it. I will attach the diagram of the relay, and the actual connections on it from my phone in a few. It is late, but I hope you will have time tomorrow to review this.
Thank you so much!

 

[BLANKAJ]

And here is the relay diagram.

 

[BLANKAJ]

Here is the wire harness numbered as best as I could

 

[jim hardy]

Wow i learn something with every project.

I think you lucked out with your motor. I know I'm happy for the lesson...

Every one of these i ever played with until today had a centrifugal switch to cut out the start winding.
That let's them use a cheap capacitor that's not long lived.

So, i was confused by the schematic - there's no switch to cut out the start winding !
Hmmm i guess the 'psc' by motor means "permanent split capacitor", which a type of split-phase motor where you don't switch out the "start" winding.

That's why they use a 60,000 hour rated capacitor, that's good for around five years continuous use which is not bad for a home appliance.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1658206.pdf

So your task just got a lot easier.
All you have to do is wire the capacitor , which is a RUN capacitor not just a start capacitor, in series with the proper start winding..
Back to your schematic. Took me all day to figure this out...
They use the speed relay to select both the desired run winding and the accompanying start winding.

The schematic shows high speed , agitate
Trace start winding current, orange

It goes like a corkscrew - orange line
down and right through agitate relay then way up then way right then down through another agitate contact
then through speed relay bypassing "lo start" half of start winding
then down into "hi start" half of start winding
then out and up through a third agitate switch ( they used two agitate switch contacts for start winding so they can reverse motor)
then up, way way right and down then left to start(oops - make that RUN) capacitor
then on around through thermal overload and out of washer ( provided lid is closed- see lid switch interlock?)
Whew !
Red run current is a lot easier to trace.

That's high speed.
You want low speed.

So here's all you have to do to your motor.
Get power to low drive winding, and to "lo start" winding through run cap.
EDITED to correct two pin numbers-jh
1. Verify with your ohm meter there's a few ohms between 4 and 3,
a few also between 4 and 7,
and about their sum between 7 and 3.
2. Verify there's no connection between start and either of the run windings.
That tells us we've found start winding where we expected it by schematic.

Yellow wiring i think you can do with just those wires from your plug
twist 7&4 together to replace contact of relay we didnt use - though i think it'd work without doing that (i hope you try and let us know)
one side of capacitor to 2, other side to 3
5 7 and 4 to one side of power cord (i'd put black hot wire there)
1 to other side (white) of power cord
green Earth wire to motor frame

try it out. Don't ignore earthing green wire , safety first.

To make it run backwards , reverse current through start by swapping 3 and 4.

That looks good to me.

If it won't start, put your meter on highest ohms and hook across cap. It should start at zero and raise slowly. It it reads high immediately it's lost its capacitance. Try it both ways.
A new run cap won't be expensive. Good electrical supply house will have an assortment of them. Metal can style is okay, just be sure it's a MOTOR RUN not a START cap. I estimate fifteen bucks or less. My last one was seven.

Let us know
and thanks for the lesson, i'll no longer shun those type motors at the junkyard.

old jim

 

[BLANKAJ]

Jim, your instructions worked perfectly! Thank you so much.
I did forget to try not hooking it up between hi/lo start before I crimped the connections. I must have gotten too excited it worked that it slipped my mind.
In case anyone else has this same motor and is following your diagram connection "8" is actually a B (black) so the pin number should be 4. And power in "9" was an O or pin connection 1.
The diagram is super small font, then the fact it's a picture of it makes it even harder to read.
But like I said before, Jim, I can't thank you enough. If you are ever in Great Falls Montana I will gladly buy, or make you a beer (unlimited beers actually)!

 

[jim hardy]

Congratulations to you for rescuing a pretty doggone nice piece of machinery.! You've doubtless priced new half horse motors...

Glad it worked. That looks like a really good one, there's plenty of iron in it.

Feel of the windings after maybe ten minutes of grinding. If they're super hot consider a smaller pulley and the higher speed windings. Most of these motors have a slightly lower power rating at low speed.

Really i think you'll be okay.

Have fun and i hope you can help your friends with their motors.

Great Falls... I've been to Missoula...

old jim

 

[BLANKAJ]

Congratulations to you for rescuing a pretty doggone nice piece of machinery.! You've doubtless priced new half horse motors...

Glad it worked. That looks like a really good one, there's plenty of iron in it.

Feel of the windings after maybe ten minutes of grinding. If they're super hot consider a smaller pulley and the higher speed windings. Most of these motors have a slightly lower power rating at low speed.

Really i think you'll be okay.

Have fun and i hope you can help your friends.

Great Falls... I've been to Missoula...

old jim

I am so glad I found this motor, followed by this forum! The motor was in a washing machine we had here at work that started leaking less than a year after getting it. Instead of fixing it they just bought another and left this one collecting dust. When I asked what we should do with it I was told to toss it, so I stripped it for parts! I gathered wires, mounts, and even used the washers lid as my internal panel for my electric brewing control box!
I will keep an eye on the windings to make sure its not getting too hot. I'm hoping to get this all up and running in the upcoming week! I'll post a finished picture once it is complete.

 

[jim hardy]

In case anyone else has this same motor and is following your diagram connection "8" is actually a B (black) so the pin number should be 4. And power in "9" was an O or pin connection 1.

is this right now ? ( for the next guy...)

duh, i didnt check against your most excellent photo
there is no 8 or 9 !
and i had it right on page 2 ! Dang my clumsiness !...

i went back up and fixed the numbers in the instructions post too.

old jim

 

[BLANKAJ]

That is exactly how I have it wired, and it works perfectly (at low speed, I didn't wire it for hi speed). I might decide to set it up for both directions, I'm still undecided if it will be beneficial.
You sir are incredibly helpful and kind.

 

[hawaiibrewer]

I've been using my grain mill now for a few months...probably ground 100 lbs thru it so far with no problems or over heating. I do find it better to start the mill before I load too much in the hopper. Once it's running, I can fill the hopper full. The pulleys I used do a good job of reducing the speed. Here's a link for the grinding.

 

[jim hardy]

Glad to hear it's working. And i like your workmanship !

I do find it better to start the mill before I load too much in the hopper. Once it's running, I can fill the hopper full.

A bigger start capacitor might help with that.
My fault - you could go to 100uf maybe even 200..
Looks like you have it securely held down. The bigger cap will make starting more , well let's say "assertive" .

Thanks for the video - everybody likes a success story !

Cheers,
old jim

 

[dlgoff]

Glad to hear it's working. And i like your workmanship !

I'd like to taste his resulting product.

 

[BLANKAJ]

Here it is! All finished and up and running! Had no problem starting it up with a full hopper. I'm running right around 130 RPM which it great. Takes maybe 2-3 minutes to mill 25 lbs.

 

[BLANKAJ]

I figured I'd also show the rest of my budget basement brewey and control panel. Even doing it as cheap as possible, it still gets expensive. But if I can sell my beers for $40 each I'll be in the the black in no time! [emoji2]

 

[Wildfier Phoenix]

Hello anyone around,

I picked up a free LG Tromm Direct Drive HE washing machine off the side of the road. Thing was not working some buttons not working said the previous owner. The previous owner was going out to buy a new washing the same day.

I took off with it anyway, ignoring the claim of busted front panel, I figuring that the thing still works and dam was I right. I got it home, spun the drum and it started up for a few seconds. My curiosity sparked and I decided to spin the drum much faster and start pressing buttons and then the LG washer actually starts a load. I was sitting there for a couple seconds lol ing then BAM!

My curiosity and creative mind went boom for the, so many things I could subject that direct drive motor too ... Mawhahahahahahaha!

Is what I picked up off the side of the road, a really good thing as I am thinking it is? XD

 

[jim hardy]

Is what I picked up off the side of the road, a really good thing as I am thinking it is? XD

it has a three phase computer driven motor that's not so easy to wire as the old fashioned ones described thus far in the thread. I wouldn't attempt it myself.
http://www.twice.com/news/appliance...ll-revolutionize-washing-machine-market/38075
http://cache.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/app_note/AN3476.pdf

That's a sophisticated and expensive washing machine. Better part of a thousand bucks new. Seems a shame to tear it up
My advice is see if you can fix it up and donate it to somebody in need, or trade for something .
I'd start here..


However - if it's a permanent magnet rotor you'll find DIY'ers are making wind turbine generators s out of them. Search youtube.

have fun
old jim

 

[Wildfier Phoenix]

Thank you for the information, I guess I will have to go looking at the beast carefully to see if it has a 3 phase motor then.

When it turns out that it has a 3 phase motor I will donate it or sell over the internet, instead of tearing it apart. I also agree it would be a shame to destroy it, if it still could be used.

Just wondering would it be possible to add some more wiring on the LG washer electrical and redirect hand spun electricity from the LG washer unit to power other things?

 

[hawaiibrewer]

View attachment 98675View attachment 98676
View attachment 98677
I figured I'd also show the rest of my budget basement brewey and control panel. Even doing it as cheap as possible, it still gets expensive. But if I can sell my beers for $40 each I'll be in the the black in no time! [emoji2]

Looks like a nice system with the temp controller and all...I'm still an old school brewer that monitors my gas fired system with thermometers. My typical brew size is 13 gals using an old keg as the kettle.

 

[Wildfier Phoenix]

I have checked the LG washer unit, unfortunately it has a 3 phase motor, however upon checking the model number with the LG website for my own reasons, I found the LG washer unit is on the list of DISCONTINUED models. I also noticed on LG's main page, their new Side Kick washer unit.

I know I said before I would donate or sell the LG if it had a 3 Phase motor, however since it is discontinued, I might strongly reconsider that .....
I just need to watch the guy on youtube who rewired that motor from that Peykell and Fisher washer unit and maybe I could power my house with it .... after strapping a bike to it ..... ALL ABOARD! Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha

FYI anyone who says it is not possible, you will only fuel the fire for my thoughts about reusing the LG WM2075CW unit I have, sorry about that

 

[jim hardy]

Spin it with an electric drill and see how many AC volts it makes.

If it's more than thirty or so the rectifier block from an old automobile alternator will turn it into useable DC ..
Or something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amico-SQL-1...677055?hash=item4afe56bc3f:g:GhkAAOSwiYFXJ6kD they're all over Ebay.

have fun.

 

[Ronald J Beach]

jim hardy,
I realize this is an old post.
I have the exact same GE washing machine motor as BLANKAJ. I did not have the forethought to save the male plug or any other parts when I wrecked out the washer and recycled everything.
I too want to use the low speed feature of this motor. I have two items salvaged when my a/c unit was replaced this summer. 1). TITAN HD Motor Run Capacitor, PRCFD605A, 60+5 MFD +- 5%440/370 VAC 60/50 Hz. It has HERM, FAN and C on top. 2). EMC electric motor capacitor, CD60, 189-227 MFD, 330VAC 50/60 Hz. It has two connections on top, neither of which are marked.
Would either of these items work with my motor in order to use in a similar manner as BLANKAJ?

Thanks

 

[jim hardy]

I too want to use the low speed feature of this motor. I have two items salvaged when my a/c unit was replaced this summer. 1). TITAN HD Motor Run Capacitor, PRCFD605A, 60+5 MFD +- 5%440/370 VAC 60/50 Hz. It has HERM, FAN and C on top. 2).

You must use a Motor Run capacitor.
The one you have is really two capacitors, one for the compressor (60 MFD between the HERM terninal and common, and 5 MFD between the FAN terminal and common.)
Probably the compressor in your air conditioner is a lot bigger than this washing machine motor,.and the fan a lot smaller.
So the 60 MFD is oversized and the 5MFD is undersized.

You haven't said what it is you're powering with this motor.The washing machine used a 45 MFD capacitor , see post #43 and look up that part number (24db450b250pa)
the 60 MFD will allow excessive current and that's hard on one winding
but would be okay for a few minutes to test your motor.
The 5 MFD will allow too little current giving a really weak start . That's very hard on the other winding.. Do not let the motor hum and labor trying to start.

If the 60 MFD works,
buy yourself a 45 MFD ,
250 volts or more
motor run capacitor .
Any good electrical supply house will have it for i'd guess less than $15.
Amazon and Ebay will have them too.

Good Luck
old jim

 

[Ronald J Beach]

Jim,
Thank you for the reply and help.
You haven't said what it is you're powering with this motor. I want to use it to make a tumbler (a.k.a. rock polisher or as the pryo guys say "ball mill") like the light weight ones sold by Harbor Freight. I will have to do the math for the rpm of the container when I get the motor situation sorted out and the frame built, belt bought and the container made.

I did the ohm test as suggested by you in previous posts and also did the hum test and run test by touching wires of a cord I made up to the leads as shown in the pictures. All this checks out.

I will pursue the proper motor run capacitor.

Thanks again.

 

[jim hardy]

If it's a very light rock tumbler , like the hobby ones I've seen,
that is almost no load at all for a husky washing machine motor.
You might get away with a shortcut..

Try your 5 MFD capacitor with no load on the motor, ie just bare shaft.
If you're lucky it will hum for just a second or two while starting , then accelerate and become pretty quiet as it reaches running speed. If you have a clamp-around ammeter measure current and compare to nameplate amps.
If it does start
Then try that again with your tumbler connected.
If it successfully starts the tumbler with 5 MFD capacitor then you'll probably get away with using it.
But don't expect it to start a heavy load.

A capacitor smaller than 45MFD should give you a gentler start. Experimenting with your apparatus will let you optimize it , if you want ..
Good luck and thanks for the feedback. We all enjoy a vicarious victory.

old jim

 

[Ronald J Beach]

It will not be used with light loads so I will stick with your original recommendation. I am still a long way off in that I do not have a frame fabricated, pillow blocks, rollers, etc. as of now. First concern is getting the motor operating.
I've only checked the supply house in the next town over and they wanted $30.48. I will check a couple more local (Tulsa) before I order one online.

Thanks again.

 

[jim hardy]

Small World - i was just in Tulsa . try Associated Parts & Supply over on Admiral Place...
old jim

 

[Ronald J Beach]

I will and thanks again.

 

[jim hardy]

PS you might consider making your pulley arrangement to accommodate the motor's high speed . Reason is its cooling fan will turn faster giving more airflow over the windings.

 

[Ronald J Beach]

The project is on hold for now. I am trying to get some painting done while the weather is nice.

 

[Eddie2002]

Just found this thread on reusing the clothes washer motor after a quick Google. I salvage the same two speed motor out of a clothes washer that wore out but still had a good motor in it. With the help of all the great information posted here I was able to reuse it to power an old Kelley K-9 honey extractor made back in the 60's. I've been a bee keeper for years and hand cranking the extractor isn't a lot of fun with a large honey crop.

The conversion was pretty straight forward using the 1080 RPM low speed setting and belt drive to a 10 inch pulley. The motor came with a 2 inch pulley on it so I ended up with about a 5:1 reduction with a final speed of just over 200 RPM.

First time through I had to give the extractor a little push to help get it started so I added a 60 uf run capacitor to the circuit instead of the 45 uf capacitor that came with the motor. The 60 uf cap alone was an improvement but once the extractor is loaded I'm sure it will need the full 105 uf to get up to speed so I wired the 45 uf into the circuit in parallel to the 60 uf cap.

I have a 8 minute video of the conversion and operation of the extractor over on U-Tube but not sure if I'm allowed to post it or link to it.

Thanks everybody for this thread, it helped a lot with re purposing the motor.

 

[Eddie2002]

Here's the U-Tube video of the conversion or upgrade. The extractor was purchased by my dad back in the 60's but not used much. After his death in '91 I grabbed all the bee keeping equipment and started with bees. Since then I've been an off and on bee keeper and currently run about five or six hives in Florida which produce about 15 to 20 gallons of honey a year. For my best year I produced 45 gallons which was a real work out with hand cranking the extractor and made me decide to work on motorizing it. The exterior of the extractor looks rough after 50 plus years and my next project will be to sand and clean it up with a coat of battleship grey paint on it's outside.



Hope everybody enjoys the video, the extractor isn't close to OSHA regulations but it's a work horse and built better than most currently offered nowadays. Just need to keep your fingers out of it when spinning. LOL