Vegan Restaurant: The Good & The Bad

[Monique]

Bingo! This is my problem with the fake-meat too. It's like they're not really committed to veganism, just faking it, by trying to eat fake meat. To me, it says, "Vegan food is unappetizing, so we try to pretend it's meat."

Meat eaters don't only steak, there are many processed foods from meat products, why is tje vegetarian not allowed to have processed foods? I like to bbq, that has nothing to do with wanting to pretend to be a meateater.

 

[Proton Soup]

A "Protein Soup", as it were?

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heh, yeah. you should see the cats when you give them something with real meat in it, tho. they go nuts.

 

[Moonbear]

Meat eaters don't only steak, there are many processed foods from meat products, why is tje vegetarian not allowed to have processed foods? I like to bbq, that has nothing to do with wanting to pretend to be a meateater.

I don't care if a vegan or vegetarian wants to eat processed foods. I just don't think they should call those processed foods "meat" if they contain no meat. I'm not sure what point you're making. The issue here has nothing to do with the choice to avoid eating meat, it has to do with calling it meat anyway, which makes no sense. When I see "meatloaf" in the cafeteria, I expect it to have MEAT. If it has no meat, why would you call it meatloaf? Isn't it vegetable loaf, or grain loaf, or tofu loaf?

 

[mgb_phys]

When I see "meatloaf" in the cafeteria, I expect it to have MEAT. If it has no meat, why would you call it meatloaf?

You are going to be very dissapointed if you go to England and order 'spotted dick'

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Or "Rocky Mountain oysters" in the U.S., though it might be closer to what the person ordering spotted dick was expecting.

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[Evo]

Seriously MEAT loaf. It cannot be made without meat.

I agree with MB, don't pretend it's meat. If you abhore meat, then be proud to say it's processed, artificially flavored soy or what ever it is.

I would love to eat a mushroom pattie, don't try to pass it off as a meatless hamburger. When I bite into it, I'm expecting hamburger and I will be disappointed. A delicious mushroom pattie, I would savor.

 

[physics girl phd]

heh, yeah. you should see the cats when you give them something with real meat in it, tho. they go nuts.

I make it a point to give Cha Cha the occasional mouse-size chunk of raw ground beef, if the quality is high (i.e. very low fat content) and it's ultra-fresh. She loves it. :!):!):!)

That said... I did have a roommate who made a great veggie-chili with fake meat crumbles and extra veggies added in. But that's as far as I'd go with the fake meat.

 

[Moonbear]

I would love to eat a mushroom pattie, don't try to pass it off as a meatless hamburger. When I bite into it, I'm expecting hamburger and I will be disappointed. A delicious mushroom pattie, I would savor.

Absolutely! A grilled portobello mushroom sandwich is absolutely delicious, but I don't call it a hamburger, I call it a grilled portobello mushroom.

Or, for example, today, the cafeteria had what they called an Italian Vegetable Casserole. It basically looked like a lasagne on the surface, but had no pasta in it, it was all vegetables, but topped with a tomato sauce and soy cheese (not my favorite, but at least they didn't hide what it was). I got that for lunch, because it looked and sounded very yummy, and it was. If they called it lasagne, when it wasn't (there was no ricotta filling or pasta), I'd have probably really disliked it simply because it wouldn't have tasted anything like what I would have been expecting when I ordered it. So, they were able to make a vegetarian dish and give it a nice sounding name without misleading anyone about what it was, and it was tasty.

They always have two soup choices too, one with meat and one that's vegetarian, and the vegetarian soups are usually really tasty too (except once they used an Ornish recipe, and it was inedible...I've never seen that one reappear...it would have been a bland, tasteless recipe, which would have been bad enough, had it not seemed like the box of black pepper had exploded into the soup ). For example, today's choices were Italian wedding soup or vegetarian vegetable soup (always an oddly redundant name...I would have assumed that vegetable soup was vegetarian...but that's still better than vegetarian meat soup ).

So, I just don't know why a neuron seems to misfire and they suddenly serve meatloaf with not a hint of meat or meat by-product in it. Or "meatless taco meat." Why not call it "vegetarian taco filling," or "meatless taco filling," or some such? Why call it meat if there's no meat?

This bugs me even more in a hospital than anywhere else, because they should know that people have all sorts of various dietary restrictions, and shouldn't be misled about their food choices. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the vegetarians all skipped the "meatloaf" for a less healthy option if they didn't have any way to tell without sitting down and reading the tiny print on the ingredients card to find out that it wasn't meat at all.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Y'know, it occurred to me reading the OP, maybe at that particular restaurant the servers simply got tired of answering the question "What does that taste like? And what does that taste like? And what does that taste like?"

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[Evo]

Y'know, it occurred to me reading the OP, maybe at that particular restaurant the servers simply got tired of answering the question "What does that taste like? And what does that taste like? And what does that taste like?"

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The answer? It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy.

Sorry, these substitutes do not taste like the meat they claim to be. They taste like soy. They have the texture of soy. They have no resemblance to meat.

Don't believe me? Chew into a steak or a pork chop, then chew into a soy patty.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

It depends on what they're actually doing, though. I've had some pretty good fake BBQ, though that's not on the menu he listed. And obviously the buffalo chicken thing is going to be battered and fried and very spicy, and the cheesesteak is going to have lots of American cheese...

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[wolram]

You are going to be very dissapointed if you go to England and order 'spotted dick'

 

[physics girl phd]

It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy.

Yummy! I'll confess to a penchant for chunks of plain, firm tofu.
Or sometimes tofu marinated in a good vinaigrette.

 

[lisab]

Yummy! I'll confess to a penchant for chunks of plain, firm tofu.
Or sometimes tofu marinated in a good vinaigrette.

I agree - I like well-prepared, firm tofu.

As far as matching texture, I think Boca burgers do a pretty good job matching the texture of ground beef.

 

[kingdomof]

Fun fact of the day: Vegan diets are common practice of many satanic cults.

 

[Evo]

I agree - I like well-prepared, firm tofu.

As far as matching texture, I think Boca burgers do a pretty good job matching the texture of ground beef.

But isn't the thing they always praise about tofu is that by itself, it's pretty tasteless, and that the positive thing about it is that it will soak up the flavor of what it is cooked in?

I like Boca burgers because I know they are mushroom patties. They do not claim to be meat.

 

[Moonbear]

I agree - I like well-prepared, firm tofu.

I don't, but that's okay, the vegetarians don't like the steak I enjoy either, so it's all even. Nonetheless, yes, there are people who DO like tofu. I don't at all agree with those who claim it has no flavor of its own...yes it does. So, what's so bad about saying, "It tastes like tofu," or, if you don't know what tofu tastes like, and you're in a vegetarian restaurant, "Try it." I've tried it. I didn't decide anything about it's taste beforehand; I actually thought I'd like it when I first tried it since everyone described it as pretty bland and something that picks up the flavor of whatever it's marinated in, and then really didn't. Then again, I don't mind it in things like miso soup where there's enough other flavor that a couple little bits of tofu just blend into the overall taste.

As far as matching texture, I think Boca burgers do a pretty good job matching the texture of ground beef.

I can't agree on that. But, again, at least the name doesn't say "meat" in it. You know what you're getting, and if it's something you like great. If you don't like it, fine, you know to skip it.

I'm not going to tell people what to eat. Someone who eats meat can also end up with a nutrient deficiency if they aren't careful about their diet (think scurvy or goiter). i just don't understand tricking oneself or others into thinking they're eating meat if they aren't.

 

[lisab]

Sometimes I think that tofu must have something in it that some people can taste and some people can't.

Certainly, tofu picks up flavors...I think of it like rice or mashed potatoes. Both have a taste, but because they are usually eaten in sauce/gravy or with other food, many people aren't aware of their real taste.

 

[Evo]

Sometimes I think that tofu must have something in it that some people can taste and some people can't.

Certainly, tofu picks up flavors...I think of it like rice or mashed potatoes. Both have a taste, but because they are usually eaten in sauce/gravy or with other food, many people aren't aware of their real taste.

It's like noodles. You rarely see just plain boiled noodles. They have a taste, but not one you could just eat a large bowl of with nothing added. They go well with sauces though.

 

[Moonbear]

It's like noodles. You rarely see just plain boiled noodles. They have a taste, but not one you could just eat a large bowl of with nothing added. They go well with sauces though.

Hmmph! Speak for yourself! I could eat a whole bowl of plain pasta or potatoes. But, yes, the analogy of those to tofu is a better one than that it is some tasteless substance that ONLY takes on the flavor of other things. Soy very definitely has a flavor of its own, and yes, it picks up other flavors TOO, and if you drown it in enough other flavors, you can sometimes hide the flavor of tofu.

 

[mcknia07]

Oh, I love tofu! It's great when cooked right. I was a Vegan for like 10 years, I just recently started to but chicken back into my diet. We had eggplant Parmesean today for lunch, and baked cheese sticks(made with Olive Oil). Oh, it was to die for, if there ever was a such thing as a foodgasim.

 

[Monique]

I don't care if a vegan or vegetarian wants to eat processed foods. I just don't think they should call those processed foods "meat" if they contain no meat. I'm not sure what point you're making.

I think the point is that it is frowned upon that there are vegetarian burgers and sausages. At least that is what I have heard. And my point is: why can't you have a vegetarian sausage. I agree that you shouldn't call it pork, which the products that are available here don't pretend to be. The only time I came across it was at a Chinese store where they sold imitation pork, which in fact was seitan. I think such products are a bit out-dated.

 

[G01]

I don't like tofu at all. Even when I get it in something like Pad Thai, I just push all the tofu to the side. (This says a lot, cause I usually eat everything on my plate!)

My issue is that certain vegans (not all) need to stop passing off tofu, seitan, etc. as something that they are not.

As Evo said, I would be disappointed with a "hamburger" made from portabello, but I would enjoy a "grilled mushroom sandwich". This is because in the latter I will be expecting and anticipating what I'm actually going to get for my meal.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Oh, Evo, darling, fallen asleep on the job or are your double standards showing, again?

Are you seriously suggesting that Evo has some sort of favoritism for Satanic cults? That is as manifestly ridiculous a statement as the one about Vegans and Satanists.

Evo is awesome at her job. Seriously, have you ever been to a forum with poor moderation? Ever?

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[EsoEng]

I am stating that Evo is biased against vegans and vegan issues.

I posted two responses into this thread. Both were deleted by Evo using the trumped-up excuse that they made claims which were not supported.

Go through this thread and note how many anti-vegan posts have been made, including by Evo herself, which make strong claims but offer nothing to support them.

Why do those posts remain whilst mine are deleted? Evo is not answering my PMed question concerning this issue. The guilty often remain silent when cornered.

 

[Proton Soup]

there is definitely an antireligious bent to this forum. and the statement above seems a way to defame vegans, so could use a reference.

personally, i don't care what adults do with themselves, as long as children (present or future) are not involved. i understand that some people don't want to harm animals, and while i feel that's got a bit of a religious backing to, it's your right to follow your beliefs.

as for my beefs with veganism, I've started by backing it up with studies, and I'm perfectly willing to carry on a pubmed battle here to support my view. and believe me, there's a lot more.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Look man, she's pretty reasonable. If you've got something to say that's true and you can demonstrate it and present it in an objective way she will let it be. Maybe start off by putting the basics out there, the absolutely and easily proveable stuff.

You can try finding supporting information in textbooks too at http://books.google.com/. (Though obviously, it has to be a reputable source and not just some mass-market book about dieting that isn't cited.)

I find the mods on this site are quite reasonable on the whole. I've had some tiffs over one comment or another, but even if something is borderline they'll discuss it amongst themselves so it's not just one person's judgement, or another practical way they often deal with things is to leave a borderline comment out there but lock the thread it's in. They are serious in their pursuit of fairness and definitely effective in allowing lots of different opinions but preventing the site from degrading into a verbal food fight like so many places are.

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[GCT]

there is definitely an antireligious bent to this forum. and the statement above seems a way to defame vegans, so could use a reference.

personally, i don't care what adults do with themselves, as long as children (present or future) are not involved. i understand that some people don't want to harm animals, and while i feel that's got a bit of a religious backing to, it's your right to follow your beliefs.

as for my beefs with veganism, I've started by backing it up with studies, and I'm perfectly willing to carry on a pubmed battle here to support my view. and believe me, there's a lot more.

I admit that veganism is a notable cause , I have supported the antivivisection society when I was in college. However I knew people who were vegans and all of them were just miserable. It is true that we are treating some animals like **** and this needs to be taken into account , however it is my opinion that we are mostly carnivorous in nature , and not eating meat is not going to have any vicarious effect in mobilizing people to treat animals any better.

 

[Proton Soup]

I admit that veganism is a notable cause , I have supported the antivivisection society when I was in college. However I knew people who were vegans and all of them were just miserable. It is true that we are treating some animals like **** and this needs to be taken into account , however it is my opinion that we are mostly carnivorous in nature , and not eating meat is not going to have any vicarious effect in mobilizing people to treat animals any better.

i hear you, i am a devout omnivore, myself. it's just the way we're made.

and i am troubled if I'm eating a chicken wing and find a broken bone. it bothers me to think that people have mishandled my food.

 

[Evo]

I am stating that Evo is biased against vegans and vegan issues.

I posted two responses into this thread. Both were deleted by Evo using the trumped-up excuse that they made claims which were not supported.

Go through this thread and note how many anti-vegan posts have been made, including by Evo herself, which make strong claims but offer nothing to support them.

Why do those posts remain whilst mine are deleted? Evo is not answering my PMed question concerning this issue. The guilty often remain silent when cornered.

Your posts were deleted because they contained dangerous health misinformation and parts were pure crackpot, which is why you were told you had to furnish valid studies to back up your crackpot claims.

Your pm's were nonsensical rants.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I admit that veganism is a notable cause , I have supported the antivivisection society when I was in college.

Whoa - vivisection is still performed? I was reading magazine articles from a hundred years ago that mentioned it, I thought it wasn't practiced any more.

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[EsoEng]

Your posts were deleted because they contained dangerous health misinformation and parts were pure crackpot, which is why you were told you had to furnish valid studies to back up your crackpot claims.

Your pm's were nonsensical rants.

There you go again with your favourite word ‘crackpot’! How you love to use that word, and how so ironic it is that you do.

What qualifies you to decide what is ‘crackpot’ or not? Is that not the whole point of citing valid sources when we make claims? As I have written before, where is the evidence to support your claims, and the claims of the other posters here? How are your claims and their claims safe and mine dangerous? Let’s see some evidence.

This is a simple case of you having power here over what people see and what they do not see. This is nothing to do with rules; you only use rules when you feel like it, when it suits your agenda and your belief system.

It is easy to claim that something is dangerous, but harder to prove it. I claim that your actions here, your posts, and some of the other outlandish posts in this thread (all of which do not support their wild claims) are in fact dangerous and invalid.

I could find solid evidence to support all that I wrote, even some of the info I heard from academics talking, and who do not refer the listener to particular journals every third word. But should I devote the time to do so? Would that be efficient?

What is this, a general chat section in an informal section of an internet forum or a meeting of policy making academics at the Royal Society? Whatever it is, the double standards are undeniable; the proof is in this thread: You allow what you want and disallow what you do not want. It has nothing to do with citing journals. That is just an excuse you use. It is one rule for some and another rule for others.

How about I repost my two comments stating that they are my opinion? We could then let others decide whether or not it is just and fair to delete my posts, whilst others, which also provide no references, remain.

 

[GCT]

Whoa - vivisection is still performed? I was reading magazine articles from a hundred years ago that mentioned it, I thought it wasn't practiced any more.

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Yep , some people believe it's the best way to elucidate what is going on under the influence of certain immediate effects of drugs for example. Some scientists within organizations may dispute this claim e.g. some members of the MAYO clinic. Yeah Descartes wasn't the only one who believed in this principle. It happens.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I could find solid evidence to support all that I wrote, even some of the info I heard from academics talking, and who do not refer the listener to particular journals every third word. But should I devote the time to do so? Would that be efficient?

The mods are the ones donating their time to keep the wagon train moving on a site that people rely on for accurate information. So yes, it is far more appropriate for you to devote the time to proving what you say than it is for Evo or any of the others to slacken the standards of an effective approach to moderating.

It certainly would be a more efficient use of your time than cranking out reams of "you fail to see the violence inherent in the system!"

There are just some practical policies that have to be in place to effectively run a forum site like this. One of them is putting the squeeze on newbies who come in swinging improbable-looking claims around without proven support. Deal with it.

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[Evo]

EsoEng has a 3 day 'time out" due to further issues. He's welcome to post scientifically sound health information when he returns.