Vegetarian or Not? Poll & Forum Discussion

[VeeEight]

You don't seem to be a cruel person

I am sometimes cruel. I can also be a downright thief and liar.

 

[Danger]

I am sometimes cruel. I can also be a downright thief and liar.

Same here, but taking it out on a human, who should know better, is not the same as torturing an animal. Remember that you are dealing with an ex-professional writer here, and several other people who are a lot brighter than me. No matter how much you deny it, I can tell by the phraseology, punctuation and spacing of your post that you feel bad about it. Just remember that sometimes it's good to feel bad. It makes you think twice before repeating the mistake.

 

[VeeEight]

I can tell by the phraseology, punctuation and spacing of your post that you feel bad about it.

Am I that transparent?! No wonder I suck at poker.

 

[Danger]

Am I that transparent?! No wonder I suck at poker.

 

[Jamma]

I was brought up a vegetarian, and had remained one my whole life (I am 22), up to about a year ago, when I started eating fish.

I was not the annoying sort of vegetarian who would demand that I couldn't eat from a plate which had had meat on it etc. (I do know people like that). The reason I started eating fish is that I started realising that it wasn't the actual killing of the animal that I disliked, my main issues were with the environmental aspects (although I also dislike the cruelty). Fish are already in the sea, unlike the millions of cows etc. which do more damage to the environment than cars do.

People say that this is dumb, because fish stocks are low and I am actually causing more damage to the environment, but for me it's just like any other product in the world that is in low supply, when fish stocks get so low that it is too expensive, I will just turn to vegetarianism again.

I wonder if it will ever be possible to grow giant cubes of mindless meat, without the same amount of pollution? This I would be in favour with!

 

[Danger]

I wonder if it will ever be possible to grow giant cubes of mindless meat, without the same amount of pollution? This I would be in favour with!

That would be super-cool, and could solve a couple of different issues at the same time. If you manage to genetically engineer a Black Angus/cactus hybrid, you could grow steaks out in the desert which is otherwise wasted space. Me likes.

 

[Evo]

That would be super-cool, and could solve a couple of different issues at the same time. If you manage to genetically engineer a Black Angus/cactus hybrid, you could grow steaks out in the desert which is otherwise wasted space. Me likes.

I saw this in a tv documentary. Here's a news report about it.

Scientists grow pork meat in a laboratory

SCIENTISTS have grown meat in the laboratory for the first time. Experts in Holland used cells from a live pig to replicate growth in a petri dish.

The advent of so-called “in-vitro” or cultured meat could reduce the billions of tons of greenhouse gases emitted each year by farm animals — if people are willing to eat it.

So far the scientists have not tasted it, but they believe the breakthrough could lead to sausages and other processed products being made from laboratory meat in as little as five years’ time.

They initially extracted cells from the muscle of a live pig. Called myoblasts, these cells are programmed to grow into muscle and repair damage in animals.

The cells were then incubated in a solution containing nutrients to encourage them to multiply indefinitely. This nutritious “broth” is derived from the blood products of animal foetuses, although the intention is to come up with a synthetic solution.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article6936352.ece

More here. http://www.physorg.com/news178869104.html

 

[DanP]

Meat ~250-300g / day. Turkey / chicken breast preferred. Milk, 1.5% fat 1-2 L / day. Eggs when I feel so. I fill the rest with vegetables soups, spinach, broccoli ,carrots, oatmeal, black bread and whatever else. Kefir / yogurt / cheese sometimes bu then I cut the milk.

I eat pasta too sometimes. Ill never give it up :P Italian recipes are too cool. Carbonara is my favorite. I love chocolate. French deserts. I indulge in them seldom.

I like to eat. In this period , I prolly average a figure close to 3500 kcal / day. It would be a nightmare to try to get them from a vegetarian diet.

I use various supplements too. I like my urine to be expensive :P

 

[VeeEight]

I like my urine to be expensive :P

Maybe you should change your name to RichP

 

[DanP]

Maybe you should change your name to RichP

Cmmon, Some Omega 3, a multivitamin, Mg, and whey protein for the times I don't get enough from food ... I keep it low :P

 

[Jamma]

I saw this in a tv documentary. Here's a news report about it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article6936352.ece

More here. http://www.physorg.com/news178869104.html

Thanks for this, very cool.

I'm not trying to be preachy here, I'm not like that, but I just randomly read this in a book I have, "The Oxbridge Questions- Do You Think You're Clever?", and I find it pretty staggering:

"It takes on average nearly 5,000 litres of water to produce just one quarter-pound beef burger - 1,000 times as much as for the same weight of wheat. So if you were to eat just two burgers a week for a year, it would take half a million litres of water."

 

[Evo]

Thanks for this, very cool.

I'm not trying to be preachy here, I'm not like that, but I just randomly read this in a book I have, "The Oxbridge Questions- Do You Think You're Clever?", and I find it pretty staggering:

"It takes on average nearly 5,000 litres of water to produce just one quarter-pound beef burger - 1,000 times as much as for the same weight of wheat. So if you were to eat just two burgers a week for a year, it would take half a million litres of water."

Are you talking about live cattle? You realize that they urinate and respirate and give most of that water back, right?

 

[wolram]

I'm not sure it is meat we get in England, ever since the local butcher shops closed down we buy this pink stuff from supermarkets, it is tasteless and needs tenderising with a big hammer before it is edible.

 

[Monique]

Are you talking about live cattle? You realize that they urinate and respirate and give most of that water back, right?

He's talking about drinking water, which is a limited commodity in certain regions. I read a story in the paper the other day about Coca Cola planting a factory on some Indian farmland, they took so much ground water from the region that none was left for the farmers and the people living there. The whole region is nothing but wasteland now. To top it off, the waste water that the factor dumped was contaminated with heavy metals.

 

[sshzp4]

Gave up meat+fish for some weird reason when I was like 3. I simply refused. Obstinacy prevailed over parental tactics. Probably had something to do with all the animal/fable based cartoons+Discovery. Now I don't eat meat cause I have no taste for it.

I used to want to be a zoologist. :/

Anyone else here a fan of Ramen+Pizza? :)

 

[Proton Soup]

i'm an omnivore. and i think veganism is pretty stupid. at the very least, everyone should eat some fish/seafood and dairy products. a great deal of the benefits from vegetarian-type diets come from the potassium in fruits and veggies. but without animal products, you're going to come up deficient in essential w-3 fatty acids (no, ALA is not sufficient), B12, and likely some minerals.

 

[rolerbe]

I'm a level 5 vegan, I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

 

[rolerbe]

NB: never eat a vegan 'dessert' (trust me on this).

 

[DanP]

Anyone else here a fan of Ramen+Pizza? :)

Are there vegetarian pizza's ? Most pizza's I ate where oozing fats of animal origins.

 

[Danger]

Are there vegetarian pizza's ? Most pizza's I ate where oozing fats of animal origins.

Vegetarian, yes; vegan, no. In order to be acceptable to a vegan, it would no longer be a pizza regardless of what one advertises it as.

 

[Evo]

He's talking about drinking water, which is a limited commodity in certain regions. I read a story in the paper the other day about Coca Cola planting a factory on some Indian farmland, they took so much ground water from the region that none was left for the farmers and the people living there. The whole region is nothing but wasteland now. To top it off, the waste water that the factor dumped was contaminated with heavy metals.

I know there are areas not fit for raising cattle. However, cattle are often raised on land that is not suitable for growing crops.

My question to the poster is what his specific post was about.

 

[Loren Booda]

My girlfriend tells me that Paul McCartney won't eat anything with a face.

 

[Proton Soup]

I know there are areas not fit for raising cattle. However, cattle are often raised on land that is not suitable for growing crops.

My question to the poster is what his specific post was about.

i think it's coming from stuff like this: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/657S

 

[Danger]

My girlfriend tells me that Paul McCartney won't eat anything with a face.

That's a pretty arbitrary classification. Does a squid have a face? Sure, it has eyes and a mouth and something that intakes water for respiration... but I can't imagine it being chosen as "Miss Mollusk of the Month" for Playboy.

 

[Jamma]

I know there are areas not fit for raising cattle. However, cattle are often raised on land that is not suitable for growing crops.

My question to the poster is what his specific post was about.

The quote I used was as I read it, with no preceding information. However, I believe that it is talking about the amount of freshwater required to be physically given to the cow to give you the meat. The fact that it respires it etc. is irrelevant, the point is about how much water it takes to bring up a cow which could be used elsewhere, obviously the water will be returned to the environment eventually.

I'm not sure on this, but as I said, I wasn't trying to make a point as such, I was just amazed at the statistic.

 

[DanP]

The quote I used was as I read it, with no preceding information. However, I believe that it is talking about the amount of freshwater required to be physically given to the cow to give you the meat.

Yes, but I don't see this as an issue. I am not going to give up meat just because all life requires water. It;s just yet another meaningless statistic.

 

[alt]

There are so many claims that scientists become vegetarian, so I was wondering who on these forums are vegetarian or similar. Therefore, I made a poll...

You forgot 'Breatharian'. Seriously, there are people out there who claim to be nourished only by whatever they breathe in.

 

[Jamma]

Yes, but I don't see this as an issue. I am not going to give up meat just because all life requires water. It;s just yet another meaningless statistic.

As I said, I wasn't really trying to make a point, although many people believe that we are in for a major water crisis if beef consumption continues to rise, so it's not quite meaningless.

 

[DanP]

As I said, I wasn't really trying to make a point, although many people believe that we are in for a major water crisis if beef consumption continues to rise, so it's not quite meaningless.

I won't even stop to read this twice unless 'some ppl', whoever they are, will present extensive compelling evidence.

 

[Evo]

Thanks for this, very cool.

I'm not trying to be preachy here, I'm not like that, but I just randomly read this in a book I have, "The Oxbridge Questions- Do You Think You're Clever?", and I find it pretty staggering:

"It takes on average nearly 5,000 litres of water to produce just one quarter-pound beef burger - 1,000 times as much as for the same weight of wheat. So if you were to eat just two burgers a week for a year, it would take half a million litres of water."

I thought that the figures sounded way too high, so I did some research.

A mature 1,000 pound non-dairy cow drinks ~ 12.5 gallons of water a day, and I'm using the mature cow figures, not the amount of water or mother's milk it drank before maturity.

Table 2. Water requirements of growing and finishing beef cattle (gallons per head per day)

(I multiplied the days of each month by the average daily consumption for that month).

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/livestoc/as954w.htm

My cow is a 2 year old 1,000 pound cow. Cows are ususally slaughtered around 20 months, but I let mine drink for another 4 months.

Beef normally is processed at approximately 20 months of age

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ0856.html

So my 24 month old would have consumed 9,148 gallons of water during it's life. (remember we are making it drink adult quantities of water since birth)

The net retail processed weight of meat from a 1,000 lb cow is 430 pounds,

http://www.ok.gov/~okag/food/fs-cowweight.pdf page 2

So over its lifetime that's 21.3 gallons of water per edible pound. Our quarter pound hamburger would have used 5.3 gallons of water over it's lifetime to get to your table.

If it really takes 5,000 litres of water to produce a quarter pound of wheat, we need to stop growing wheat.

(Someone check my math, I just now poured my first cup of coffee, and I rounded numbers)

 

[Monique]

I think that keeping the cages clean requires a significant amount of water.

 

[Evo]

I think that keeping the cages clean requires a significant amount of water.

Most beef cattle live out in the open. Dairy cows are brought into be put into milking machines.

 

[Monique]

Most beef cattle live out in the open. Dairy cows are brought into be put into milking machines.

Are you sure? In the Netherlands the meat cows are all kept indoors, only (some of) the milk cows are free to graze in the grass. You can expect a meat cow to have 2,5 m² of living space.

A particular race is popular that carries a mutation in the myostatin gene, causing muscle overgrowth. The calf is so big when it is about to be born that in most cases it won't fit through the birth canal, so a C-section needs to be performed. Adult cows will need to go through multiple C-sections throughout their lives. The race is called "fat-butt cow", unfortunately I don't know the proper English name. *edit* http://www.cattlenetwork.net/Breeds/belgian_blue.htm" is the proper name* I've never seen one walking about in the field.

 

[Danger]

You forgot 'Breatharian'. Seriously, there are people out there who claim to be nourished only by whatever they breathe in.

They never make it past one very brief generation, though. Their population isn't likely to grow.

 

[Evo]

Are you sure? In the Netherlands the meat cows are all kept indoors, only (some of) the milk cows are free to graze in the grass. You can expect a meat cow to have 2,5 m² of living space.

Beef cattle live out on a ranch, when they are rounded up, they are put in an open outdoor pen called a corral. Only mama cows and their babies get to go inside.

You can see the cattle pens behind the guy when he's standing. My neighbors at my old house down the street from here raise long horns, only the horses get barns, the cattle remain outside.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJ7NEjng78