What are the physical and emotional challenges of aging?

[Gnosis]

Good news on one front. My older friend/neighbor is back home. He is on a maintenance dose of a clot-buster medicine, but not much else, and he doesn't seem to have lost much (if any) function. We spent almost an hour on the phone this morning and he seems in good spirits. In fact, he wants to get right back out to the garage and resume working on a 33 year old Ford pickup he is restoring, and wanted my advice about how to get wrinkles and creases out of a new molded carpet that he bought for the cab.

That’s great news Turbo.

My neighbor’s sister passed away several months ago at age 42 however, she brought the reaper upon herself as she slept, as she was a chain smoking heroin junkie. Her brother and I forewarned her multiple times that she wouldn’t last all that much longer at her age if she continued in the manner that she had, but as her brother informed me, “Jennifer said she wanted to die because she thinks her life sucks.”

It is somewhat difficult for me to fathom anyone being so unappreciative of their lone opportunity to exist. There are countless matters to ponder, endless paths to explore, and joyful experiences yet awaiting each of us at various bends along destiny’s winding way.

Most of us at some point or another have been heavily burdened by loss and felt as though things just weren’t going to get better, but it seems that when we least expect it, they suddenly do and it makes us grateful that we managed to live through whatever tribulations to arrive at this joyful point where we find ourselves laughing once again and thinking, “It’s sure good to be alive, to witness another sunrise and sunset, to gaze into the depths of the star-filled heavens, and to ponder matters which intrigue us the most.”

My advice: Strive always for the joyful moments that await their moment of passage.

 

[turbo]

Every day brings something new, and it's a shame to fall into self-destruction when there is more life to be experienced.

My wife and I have a small, easily-maintainable home, a great garden-spot (after years of building up the soil) and some very nice neighbors and friends. Some people don't have any of that. After losing some functionality to a medicine-induced brain-stem stroke over a decade ago, I could have gotten down on my life. I've tried to reject the negativism and keep charging (plodding?) ahead. Got to keep on keeping on...

 

[Gnosis]

Every day brings something new, and it's a shame to fall into self-destruction when there is more life to be experienced.

My wife and I have a small, easily-maintainable home, a great garden-spot (after years of building up the soil) and some very nice neighbors and friends. Some people don't have any of that. After losing some functionality to a medicine-induced brain-stem stroke over a decade ago, I could have gotten down on my life. I've tried to reject the negativism and keep charging (plodding?) ahead. Got to keep on keeping on...

Turbo, do you still have the same loss of functionality? Has it improved to some degree?

 

[turbo]

Turbo, do you still have the same loss of functionality? Has it improved to some degree?

No improvement. I have very limited sensation of temperature in my right leg and a constant sensation of burning in that foot, and I have lost almost all joint-position feedback in in my left leg, which makes it very difficult to walk on uneven surfaces, even more so after dark when it's tough to anticipate the effects of changing topography/surfaces. At least I didn't lose critical (to me) sensory inputs like vision, hearing, etc. Those nerve locuses were not far away.

 

[Ouabache]

As I listened to Alphonso D'Abruzzo the other day on radio (who?). You know, the fellow who played
Benjamin (Hawkeye) Pierce on M.A.S.H. I was inspired by his enthusiasm for life and new projects.
As a visiting professor at Stoneybrook University, he is teaching grad courses in science communication
So i was wondering, how old was he during the M.A.S.H. years? (35-45). And how old when he hosted
Scientific American Frontiers, (57-69). How old is Alan today? 76

He is one of the great role models, when I think about growing older.

 

[alt]

THANATOPSIS

http://www.poetry-archive.com/b/thanatopsis.html

Good stuff !

 

[Negatron]

I consider myself more on the activist side of aging.

When I reach the point where age has produced a large impact on my quality of life and there are no prospects for improvement, I would not sit around and wait for the inevitable. I would happily end it with little hesitation.

 

[Office_Shredder]

When I reach the point where age has produced a large impact on my quality of life and there are no prospects for improvement, I would not sit around and wait for the inevitable. I would happily end it with little hesitation.

Easier said than done

 

[Negatron]

For some perhaps. I fear the pain of living and dying but I don't fear death. When the time comes that death becomes the more favorable option I can't imagine what difficulties I could possibly stumble upon. Even at the age of 27 I have no major objections to being dead; At the same time I have no reason for it but should one present itself, cancer for example, I have no doubt that I would take the matter into my own hands.

Perhaps taking one's own life is not a plausible option for many people, especially with modern religious values, but I consider it very privileged and empowering to have the state of mind to give oneself that choice.

I can live my life without concern of being old, as I have the choice not to be. When I realized that I'm readily willing to make that decision I became much more comfortable with getting older, gives me a certain feeling of control of my own fate that I previously believed was out of my hands.

 

[Office_Shredder]

When the time comes that death becomes the more favorable option I can't imagine what difficulties I could possibly stumble upon.

If you think that death is the favorable option then you're going to do it, the question is are you ever going to think that death is the favorable option?

I can live my life without concern of being old, as I have the choice not to be. When I realized that I'm readily willing to make that decision I became much more comfortable with getting older, gives me a certain feeling of control of my own fate that I previously believed was out of my hands.

Most people are concerned about getting old because they want to keep living like they're young. The fact that you plan on killing yourself instead doesn't change the fact that you aren't going to be young anymore, so I don't see how you're more liberated. Just more short lived. You might be the only person who thinks to themselves "Oh man, when I'm sixty I'm going to be OLD, and ALIVE, and there's nothing I can do to stop both of those occurring at the same time. Wait! I have an idea!" The general ordering that people have is dead<old<young. You seem to have taken old<young and concluded that old<dead

There's nothing noble or radical or freeing about what you're saying, it's just kind of dumb because your definition of 'large impact on quality of life' is going to keep shifting until something kills you anyway

 

[Negatron]

I'm not "planning" on killing myself, I might very well find life as an old man satisfactory. I'm only leaving it as an available option that I would readily execute should I find myself in the position of being old and unsatisfied. Although ultimately the whole concept goes beyond growing old and having this be an open possibility at any point in my life when it has become apparent that I have lost all prospects at happiness.

Nothing noble perhaps, but it's very freeing to be able to independently choose to end one's suffering should it eventually present itself.

 

[turbo]

As you get older, personal entanglements grow. The prospect of suicide will have to be accompanied by the realization that your "significant other", close friends, and surviving relatives will be impacted - probably quite negatively.

If you have an untreatable terminal cancer and will live your remaining days in pain, that's something for your loved ones to use to rationalize your death, but being "old and unsatisfied"? They would take little solace in that rationale.

 

[lisab]

As you get older, personal entanglements grow. The prospect of suicide will have to be accompanied by the realization that your "significant other", close friends, and surviving relatives will be impacted - probably quite negatively.

If you have an untreatable terminal cancer and will live your remaining days in pain, that's something for your loved ones to use to rationalize your death, but being "old and unsatisfied"? They would take little solace in that rationale.

IMO: anyone who has kids, and is considering suicide because they feel "old and unsatisfied", is simply unsuited to be a parent.

 

[Negatron]

being "old and unsatisfied"? They would take little solace in that rationale.

Being unsatisfied is a gradient. From what I've seen of people 80+, many of them look forward to death. At some point in one's life the mere goal of not pissing oneself becomes a serious challenge. Any person who takes solace through insisting that the elderly endure a degenerate life against their wishes doesn't deserve anything other than being negatively impacted when that elderly person chooses, with all proper consideration, to end their life.

 

[hypatia]

Some are physical, and some are emotional. Two days ago, my neighbor ~70 years old had a stroke and was rushed to a stroke/coronary center in Bangor. Hopefully, they can do something to relieve the pressure on his brain, and he doesn't lose much functionality. My wife's favorite aunt (~93) is in that same hospital and is not expected to last for more than the next day or so. At least she didn't fall victim to senile dementia like her sister (my mother-in-law), and had a sharp mind and a good memory every time I talked to her. A good long life and a merciful (not drawn-out, painful) death are something we can all aspire to.

Until a year or two ago, I'd breeze right past the obituaries in the morning paper. Now, though, it seems that a couple of times a week people that I know have died, including the parents of friends, and even former class-mates. I'm a couple weeks away from hitting 60, so it's not that surprising that people in their 80s are kicking off, but still jarring to see an obit about somebody that you grew up knowing.

A guy that died recently has a big soft spot in my heart. He was fishing the tailwaters of the local hydro-dam and hooked into a huge salmon, and he told me to grab his landing net and land that monster. My father was horrified - even more so when I made the rookie mistake of grabbing the line when that big fish didn't want to get into the net! It all turned out OK, and that football-shaped land-locked salmon ended up mounted and displayed on the wall of the local variety store that sold fishing licenses in the next town. My father was giving me hell, and Junior patted me on the back and told me that I "did good".

It is not that life is so short, its just that death is so long.

 

[statix1]

it sucks getting older, I am only 28 but i can only feel it

 

[Ouabache]

It is not that life is so short, its just that death is so long.

On the radio show Car Talk (with Tom & Ray Magliozzi); I heard this recently:
In response to a caller riding in the car with the windows rolled up on a beautiful summer day
(she couldn't roll her windows down do to wind buffeting), Rays says
"I'd hate to be sealed up in a box". To which Tommy pipes in
"you're going to be sealed up in a box long enough".
As Ray realizes what Tommy said, he reiterates: " Did you hear my brother,
you're going to be sealed up in a box long enough... No sense rushing things"

 

[Maui]

At around what age do degeneration and suffering begin to impact severely one's daily life(assuming one doesn't have a genetic pre-disposition towards illnesses)? Do you know people who are deep in their 70's or 80's who are active and don't suffer much of the symptons described earlier?

 

[lisab]

At around what age do degeneration and suffering begin to impact severely one's daily life(assuming one doesn't have a genetic pre-disposition towards illnesses)?

It varies widely. But the good news is, you can delay a lot of trouble by taking care of yourself starting at a young age.

 

[Borek]

When my Grandma was well in her seventies, she went to see a doctor. It was obvious to her she must be ill, because everyone at her age has health problems. Doc checked her and asked "so what disease do you want to have?" She took offense and never went to him again.

Sadly, few years later she had a stroke which devastated her mentally in a strange, selective way. Then it was a fast ride down :(

 

[turbo]

My wife's favorite aunt died this morning. A very loving and understanding woman. These things happen, and I'm so glad that she didn't suffer physically or have to undergo degradation in her mental capacities. 93 years old with a relatively sharp decline after a great life... That's OK.

 

[castro94]

i maybe to young to understand this , but i don't think that growing up is that bad, i believe that there is a time for everything, even your body and brain tell you so , i read an article about how a teenagers brain is not good at handling stress , because it has not been developed "enough" , i see this just as nature way to let us learn and enjoy every single step of our life ,
you can't run without learnimg how to walk , when you learn to walk you are happy beacuse it is a lot of places you can go to, and youinow can do as your parents and the people around , but once you learn how to run the joy is differnet , not better , just different , you will never forget how to walk , but now you can do it " faster" , this doesn't mean that runnig is better than walking , it is just different , and its just the way it is supposed to be , nothing more. the same goes with everything else in life. we forget to enjoy all the different experinces life throws at us , we are to eager to get to the next step , and when we are there we just want to go back
dont ask for to much , but make sure to enjoy what you get, that's what i like to live up to

 

[SecularSanity]

I can no longer gain muscle mass by simply drinking a glass of orange juice. I have to work out hard just to avoid the saggy butt syndrome. My teenager can fart muscles, watch one episode of South Park, and know more about physics than me.

THANATOPSIS

http://www.poetry-archive.com/b/thanatopsis.html

Good stuff !

Good stuff, indeed. This was my favorite part.

Yet not to thine eternal resting-place
Shalt thou retire alone, nor couldst thou wish
Couch more magnificent. Thou shalt lie down
With patriarchs of the infant world--with kings,
The powerful of the earth--the wise, the good,
Fair forms, and hoary seers of ages past,
All in one mighty sepulchre.

I used to fear death. I thought I’d somehow be conscious of my unconsciousness, aware of my unawareness, how screwed up is that? My only fear now is the pain associated with dying and my lack of control over future events.

Forgetfulness

The name of the author is the first to go
followed obediently by the title, the plot,
the heartbreaking conclusion, the entire novel
which suddenly becomes one you have never read,
never even heard of,

as if, one by one, the memories you used to harbor
decided to retire to the southern hemisphere of the brain,
to a little fishing village where there are no phones.

Long ago you kissed the names of the nine Muses goodbye
and watched the quadratic equation pack its bag,
and even now as you memorize the order of the planets,

something else is slipping away, a state flower perhaps,
the address of an uncle, the capital of Paraguay.

Whatever it is you are struggling to remember,
it is not poised on the tip of your tongue,
not even lurking in some obscure corner of your spleen.

It has floated away down a dark mythological river
whose name begins with an L as far as you can recall,
well on your own way to oblivion where you will join those
who have even forgotten how to swim and how to ride a bicycle.

No wonder you rise in the middle of the night
to look up the date of a famous battle in a book on war.
No wonder the moon in the window seems to have drifted
out of a love poem that you used to know by heart.

Billy Collins

 

[lisab]

i maybe to young to understand this , but i don't think that growing up is that bad, i believe that there is a time for everything, even your body and brain tell you so , i read an article about how a teenagers brain is not good at handling stress , because it has not been developed "enough" , i see this just as nature way to let us learn and enjoy every single step of our life ,
you can't run without learnimg how to walk , when you learn to walk you are happy beacuse it is a lot of places you can go to, and youinow can do as your parents and the people around , but once you learn how to run the joy is differnet , not better , just different , you will never forget how to walk , but now you can do it " faster" , this doesn't mean that runnig is better than walking , it is just different , and its just the way it is supposed to be , nothing more. the same goes with everything else in life. we forget to enjoy all the different experinces life throws at us , we are to eager to get to the next step , and when we are there we just want to go back
dont ask for to much , but make sure to enjoy what you get, that's what i like to live up to

I think you have a good attitude about life, castro .

 

[castro94]

just something that life itself has teached me :)

nice quote

 

[rhody]

My wife's favorite aunt died this morning. A very loving and understanding woman. These things happen, and I'm so glad that she didn't suffer physically or have to undergo degradation in her mental capacities. 93 years old with a relatively sharp decline after a great life... That's OK.

Sorry to hear about your wife's aunt passing today Turbo, my thoughts are with you and your family.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Sorry to hear about your wife's aunt passing today Turbo, my thoughts are with you and your family.

Rhody...

Thanks. We all have our allotted time, and she had a good life, with some devoted children. I haven't seen her for a few years (perfume problems) but whenever I spoke to her on the phone, she always seemed quick-witted with a decent sense of humor. I couldn't hope for more.

It wasn't until after my wife and I were married that I learned that her aunt had married into the family of a nearby neighbor. Her husband was a WWII vet that managed to survive Anzio. A decade or two back, he arranged to get his kids and their families to Italy for a vacation. Nice old guy. He wanted to tie up some of his loose ends and give the rest of the family a nice experience.

 

[ThomasT]

My right arm often falls asleep while I'm riding my bike, and my left hand cramps. While sleeping my legs cramp. The other day, while riding in the car with my girlfriend, I got a sudden painful twinge in my posterior area. My lower back always hurts. The tendon behind my right knee still hurts, and my right calf hurts. Other than that, I feel really good and am glad to be alive.

I don't think anybody should commit suicide just because they're dissatisfied. I don't think anybody does. People commit suicide because of unbearable, for them, pain, either emotional or physical. Mostly emotional I think. Deeply felt shame, embarrassment/humiliation, remorse can drive people to the depths of despair and to want out of life they're living.

I think that if a person has survived/lived to a ripe old age, then it's not likely that they're going to end their lives by their own hand.

Personally, I have all those "don't keep me alive", "don't do any life-support", if I'm hospitalized with a terminal illness or become a vegetable. I would prefer not to die in prolonged extreme pain, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

So, if it ever becomes inevitable that I'm going to die within a short time, and if, knowing that, I can still get around pretty well, then I might consider ending my life via jumping from a high flying airplane, or riding a huge wave, or base jumping and not pulling the parachute thingy, or some other really cool and exciting way of going that wouldn't hurt anybody else. Drowning, freezing, or being covered by an avalanche would be cool. Self-immolation is a bit scary. Drug overdose is just so mundane and overdone.

Anyway, I probably would never do any of those. Most likely, I'll die in my sleep, hopefully about, at least, 20 years from now (I'm in my 65th year).

 

[jim hardy]

Have you watched "Secondhand Lions" ?

I'm about your age and have given copies to several friends.

It's an "Older Guy" thing. (But Kyra Sedgwick is delightful.)
It speaks to the generation gap.

In a lighter vein,

 

[turbo]

Some posts are a bit morbid here, but let me share a bit of info. My organic-gardening neighbor who got me started growing garlic is 50. I'm just a few days shy of 60. Our neighbor that suffered the blackout recently is 70. Guess who is fit enough and spry enough to do construction/carpentry off ladders and staging? Yep! The 70-year-old.

My younger neighbor and I spent decades working on concrete floors in paper mills and our knees are shot (including multiple surgeries to remove shredded cartilage), plus I have had a stroke and my balance is worth nothing when I get off a flat surface (not to mention ladders!). Still, between us we milled out and stacked enough lumber to more than double the size of the younger neighbor's house, and build that addition, so his daughter and her two girls would have living space of their own. Getting older isn't always equivalent with "decline" - there are gains, too, some small and some pretty significant. Got to re-calibrate expectations and take stuff in stride.

 

[jim hardy]

Yes - life we live forward but understand backward.

 

[nitsuj]

I can no longer gain muscle mass by simply drinking a glass of orange juice. I have to work out hard just to avoid the saggy butt syndrome. My teenager can fart muscles, watch one episode of South Park, and know more about physics than me.

that's funny,

 

[Borek]

that's funny,

It is not.

 

[Andre]

It is not that life is so short, its just that death is so long.

Hypatia! Good to see you. Welcome back.

Anyway, I've been preoccupied with watching my inlaw dad die in slow motion this month. It took about 10 days, after he was discharged from hospital, because the treatment of the illness was even worse to his organs. There were no more options left.

The last two days were really awful. Nobody should have to suffer like that. Really shocking. You'd like to shout to the doc, just to increase the dose of morphine more and more.

But that's illegal, which seems to be more important than useless suffering.

 

[Borek]

Sorry to hear that Andre. My condolences.

I don't know who said that first, but I can only repeat - I am not afraid of being dead, if anything, I am afraid of dying.