What caused the teenager to die while charging her phone in the bath?

[dlgoff]

My vintage 1945 bathroom vanity fixture, upgraded in about 1992.
I'm pretty sure I would not have done that, had I known it wouldn't work.

Just think of it as having made it possible for two people to be protected at the same time.

 

[OmCheeto]

Also, I've been mowing my neighbors lawn for the last 2 years, and they don't have a GFCI outlet on the outside of their house. Those have been required since 1973. They just moved in a few years ago, so there seems to be some loophole about GFCI rules. Not sure if they are renting or own the house.

They bought the house. The guy claims they have GFCI in the kitchen and bathroom, but when I queried him about the outside outlet, he said; "Grandfathered".

Rules may be different for each state.

ps. He refused to let me install my spare GFCI receptacle I've had sitting in a box for 10 years, even though I told him I was once an electrician.
[super-duper off topic]Since I'm recently retired, I've been weeding their lawn for two years now. I think I'm starting to give them the creeps.
pps. Their lawn is almost weed free now. Whoop Whoop![/super-duper off topic]

 

[berkeman]

ps. He refused to let me install my spare GFCI receptacle I've had sitting in a box for 10 years, even though I told him I was once an electrician.

I hope you use an in-line GFCI adapter when mowing their lawn...

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/59/5922f896-c7a6-446e-a76d-e4a676ff2346_1000.jpg

 

[OmCheeto]

I hope you use an in-line GFCI adapter when mowing their lawn...

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/1000/59/5922f896-c7a6-446e-a76d-e4a676ff2346_1000.jpg

Nyet. I'm old, somewhat understand the evolution of electrical stuff, and have been prepared for death, for decades.

ps. Took 220 volts across the chest once, just moments before the captain walked by. He was an electrical safety FREAK!, apparently.
Long story, and off-topic to the fourth power.
pps. God bless Admiral Oliver!

 

[jim hardy]

ps. Took 220 volts across the chest once, ...
Long story, and off-topic to the fourth power.

Hands were dry, no doubt ? When they're wet with seawater you can't hold on to a 12 volt battery.

Off Topic to 5th- Another Boring Anecdote
(that i may have told before)

I once got a wet left hand into an outboard motor sparkplug while wet right hand was on the carburetor mixture adjust.
Counted seven pulses going between my hands as the motor coasted to a stop.

Said to myself "Whew that was close."

Had a brand new pacemaker that was due its 30 day checkup the following day. It was one of those computerized ones that "knows if you've been bad or good"...
So I asked Doc "Any funny readings yesterday about 1PM ?"
He said "Nothing recorded, why do you ask? Have some angina pains then?"

So i told him the story and finished up with "... so these things must be tougher than they want us to think."

He just winced and said "Well, let's not tell Guidant about it."

old jim

 

[OCR]

He trusts red lights to stop people.

Ugh !...

I look both ways before driving through an intersection.

Excellent !... [COLOR=#black]..[/COLOR]

 

[OCR]

I once got a wet left hand into an outboard motor sparkplug while wet right hand was on the carburetor mixture adjust.

old jim

How did the mixture adjustment... turn out ? [COLOR=#black]..[/COLOR] My God, you could actually count... ? !

Counted seven pulses going between my hands as the motor coasted to a stop.

I would have just made a big long shriek... and probably flung the mixture screw away in the process... I really, really HATE spark plug shocks... !

Lol... yup.

He just winced...

I've provoked that look, on occasion, too...

 

[OmCheeto]

...
Funny thing is, I never replaced the wiring to two outlets, which are in my kitchen.
About a month ago, whilst doing some "load testing", I discovered that my refrigerator has a ground fault when I open the freezer door.
...

Update:
I pulled the freezer light bulb out yesterday, and then* plugged the fridge into a GFCI outlet. With the door open, it did not trip the circuit. Then I reinstalled the light bulb. Opening and closing the door 100 times does not trip the circuit.

I guess it's not broken after all.

*In hindsight, I probably should have done this in a different order.

 

[jim hardy]

I guess it's not broken after all.

Is it on a GFCI all the time?

If you can catch it in a defrost cycle check it then.
I had a faulted defrost heater that tripped the GFCI once a day. Took a while to figure that one out.
Locate the defrost timer, they usually have provision for manual advance.

 

[rootone]

My washing machine was being a pain yesterday.
It insisted the door was not closed when clearly it was.
I swore at it, then kicked it, then it stopped behaving like that.

 

[Tom.G]

My washing machine was being a pain yesterday.
It insisted the door was not closed when clearly it was.
I swore at it, then kicked it, then it stopped behaving like that.

Yeah, used to fix vacuum tube TVs that way...especially in the local bar it would get you a couple free drinks!

 

[OmCheeto]

Is it on a GFCI all the time?

Nope. Only briefly for load testing, during the great "Ideas for refrigerator door design" thread.

If you can catch it in a defrost cycle check it then.
I had a faulted defrost heater that tripped the GFCI once a day. Took a while to figure that one out.
Locate the defrost timer, they usually have provision for manual advance.

Very low probability, IMHO.
Based on:

1. It only happened when I opened the freezer door, and not the refrigerator door.
2. The defrost cycle only happens every, (pfoogle, pfoogle, pfoogle) 61.5 hours.​

ps. It's still plugged into the GFCI, and every time I walk by it, I open the freezer door. Nada.
pps. I also did the old; "Lets grab hold of the metal parts of the stove and the refrigerator at the same time with the freezer door open, and see if Om dies" experiment. No luck. Not even a tingle.

 

[OmCheeto]

To me, electrical safety is ingrained, and should be shared extensively.
But, we really do need to stay on topic.

The latest:

KCBD
July 14, 2017(two days ago!)

The report from the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Lovington Police Department says she plugged her cell phone into an extension cord, which was plugged into a non-GFCI, non-grounded bathroom wall outlet.

The report goes on to say the phone was never immersed in water.

Officials say Coe took precautions to keep the connection of the cords dry, it is believed she was not aware of a significant area of fraying to the extension cord. Evidence shows she touched the frayed extension cord while she was in the bathtub, which had water in it.​

Lessons:

1. Even if you have 100 year old, two conductor wiring, a GFCI outlet will protect you.
2. Send all worn out extension cords to OmCheeto. He knows how to repair and/or recycle them.
3. A ground wire would not have saved her life, IMHO.
4. Electrical "stuff" now spans about 100 years. The old metal cased stuff protected you by having a "ground wire". Most new stuff is not made of metal, and the ground wire is probably kept around for nostalgic peeps, like me.​

 

[OmCheeto]

Hands were dry, no doubt ?

Check! (Probably why I'm still alive.)

When they're wet with seawater...

Ummmm... On a submarine, seawater inside, means you've got a problem.ps. [off topic to the 8th power: One day, I made seawater coffee on my aircraft carrier... Yuck.]

 

[Guineafowl]

To me, electrical safety is ingrained, and should be shared extensively.
But, we really do need to stay on topic.

The latest:

KCBD
July 14, 2017(two days ago!)

The report from the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Lovington Police Department says she plugged her cell phone into an extension cord, which was plugged into a non-GFCI, non-grounded bathroom wall outlet.

The report goes on to say the phone was never immersed in water.

Officials say Coe took precautions to keep the connection of the cords dry, it is believed she was not aware of a significant area of fraying to the extension cord. Evidence shows she touched the frayed extension cord while she was in the bathtub, which had water in it.​

Lessons:

1. Even if you have 100 year old, two conductor wiring, a GFCI outlet will protect you.
2. Send all worn out extension cords to OmCheeto. He knows how to repair and/or recycle them.
3. A ground wire would not have saved her life, IMHO.
4. Electrical "stuff" now spans about 100 years. The old metal cased stuff protected you by having a "ground wire". Most new stuff is not made of metal, and the ground wire is probably kept around for nostalgic peeps, like me.​

Well, that's a complete turnaround of the story. In the UK, you cannot have a socket in the bathroom - I always wondered at this regulation, and compared it to the EU and US where you can, but perhaps it's for the best. I know an extension cord can defeat the rule, but the absence of sockets in bathrooms perhaps subconsciously affects our attitude to electricity in the bathroom.

Regarding your lessons:
1. I agree.
2. Common sense dictates you check mains cords for damage now and again. Hardly anyone does. You are relying on a sliver ot two of PVC to protect your life in many cases - I think modern life is SO carefully engineered to be super-safe that people have lost their danger perception.
3. I agree.
4. I think there's still enough metal cased stuff to justify a ground/earth wire. It's also useful for RF shields and the like...

 

[CWatters]

Actually I believe you _can_ have a socket in the bathroom in the UK as long as it's in the correct "zone" and complies with the socket manufacturers instructions (which may preclude installation in a humid area). I wouldn't recommend it though.

Edit: See this thread...
http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=34751

 

[sophiecentaur]

. In the UK, you cannot have a socket in the bathroom

True. But the silly thing is that everyone has electrical devices with mains leads draped all over the kitchen and there are plastic / pot sinks with taps that can spray all over a work top with (even) a toaster on it. Toasters have NAKED resistance wire down amongst the bread slices. I don't often stand naked in my kitchen but nakedness only adds to the perceived risk in a bathroom.
PS electric razor sockets are permitted but they have an isolating transformer.

 

[Guineafowl]

Actually I believe you _can_ have a socket in the bathroom in the UK as long as it's in the correct "zone" and complies with the socket manufacturers instructions (which may preclude installation in a humid area). I wouldn't recommend it though.

Edit: See this thread...
http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=34751

I'm sure that's right.

However, I have never seen a socket in any bathroom, other than an isolated 'shaver socket'. I've also never met anyone who has a shaver they need to plug into one of these things.

The question to our friends across the pond is: what do you need a socket in the bathroom for?

 

[Guineafowl]

True. But the silly thing is that everyone has electrical devices with mains leads draped all over the kitchen and there are plastic / pot sinks with taps that can spray all over a work top with (even) a toaster on it. Toasters have NAKED resistance wire down amongst the bread slices. I don't often stand naked in my kitchen but nakedness only adds to the perceived risk in a bathroom.
PS electric razor sockets are permitted but they have an isolating transformer.

As I mention above, you certainly need sockets in a kitchen, so (I think) there are rules about distance from sink etc.

But why do you need a socket in the bathroom?

 

[jim hardy]

But why do you need a socket in the bathroom?

Interesting.
US NEC requires a 20 amp outlet in the bathroom presumably for those 1875 watt "Raging Inferno" handheld hair dryers.

 

[Guineafowl]

Interesting.
US NEC requires a 20 amp outlet in the bathroom presumably for those 1875 watt "Raging Inferno" handheld hair dryers.

;) people with long hair in the UK dry their hair in the bedroom.

I dry my short hair with a towel.

NEXT!

 

[sophiecentaur]

But why do you need a socket in the bathroom?

There are many appliances that could be useful in a bathroom. Hair dryer, TV, HiFi and even a handy floor standing electric heater. We are aware of the possible dangers so we accept that only specially installed versions are suitable. I am sure there are parts of the world where people just do what they want and have appropriate accident figures to show for it.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I've also never met anyone who has a shaver they need to plug into one of these things.

Not for about 30 years! But the electric toothbrush charger has the right plug of it.

 

[Guineafowl]

There are many appliances that could be useful in a bathroom. Hair dryer, TV, HiFi and even a handy floor standing electric heater. We are aware of the possible dangers so we accept that only specially installed versions are suitable. I am sure there are parts of the world where people just do what they want and have appropriate accident figures to show for it.

Hmmm. I suppose we could go on all year about this, but:

Hair dryer - bedroom?
TV - Americans watch TV in the bath? You're meant to be washing yourself.
HiFi - iPod? Battery radio?
Electric heater - you can have one here, but it's normally installed as a fixed outlet away from the bath/basin. Also (I live in a cold Scottish house) if you need an electric bathroom heater, upgrade your heating system. Power cuts are common up here in the winter.

;)

 

[Guineafowl]

Not for about 30 years! But the electric toothbrush charger has the right plug of it.

I have an electric toothbrush, and the stupid charger plug doesn't fit into these sockets when I stay in a hotel. Seriously, who uses these things?

 

[CWatters]

Sockets are rare in UK bathrooms but some houses have a socket for a washing machine in the bathroom. In my part of the UK there is a trend towards building more three storey houses in order to cram more into a given area of land. This makes it more annoying to have to carry washing up an down stairs so it makes more sense for the washing machine to go in the bathroom on the middle floor rather than in the kitchen on the ground floor.

 

[sophiecentaur]

if you need an electric bathroom heater, upgrade your heating system.

Central heating is not always a Green Solution. If you visit a room twice a day then why keep it heated to a (wet naked body) temperature all day? As a Scotsperson you will be aware of the importance of domestic economy. (As a mere Englishperson - I had to learn this myself, without cultural help and to be 'careful' with my money )
Lifestyles vary and watching the TV from the bath is quite an attractive idea. I know that many people have a TV on in the background almost 24/7 so why have it different in the bathroom? Personally, I tend to have a radio on for most of the time and I have a 9V lead, feeding my transistor radio in the bathroom. I would use batteries but a DRB receiver eats them up too fast. I cannot reach it from the bath so I reckon I am safe.

 

[Guineafowl]

Central heating is not always a Green Solution. If you visit a room twice a day then why keep it heated to a (wet naked body) temperature all day? As a Scotsperson you will be aware of the importance of domestic economy. (As a mere Englishperson - I had to learn this myself, without cultural help and to be 'careful' with my money )
Lifestyles vary and watching the TV from the bath is quite an attractive idea. I know that many people have a TV on in the background almost 24/7 so why have it different in the bathroom? Personally, I tend to have a radio on for most of the time and I have a 9V lead, feeding my transistor radio in the bathroom. I would use batteries but a DRB receiver eats them up too fast. I cannot reach it from the bath so I reckon I am safe.

Getting a little off topic (!), but to heat a 'wet' room only when you're in there, then let it get quite cold the rest of the time is inviting damp problems. In Scotland, we know about damp, but also about cold - it is better, IMHO, to heat the house evenly at a low level that is comfortable, than to have the heating off and on in a binary fashion.

"Lifestyles vary" - indeed. I suppose it comes down to whether you regard bathing (etc) as a leisure activity or just a necessity. I find it a damned nuisance, a chore, and envy the dog - he just gets up, tiddles in the bushes and is ready for the day. For me, the lowest possible dwell time in the bathroom is best, and having entertainment devices in there would only increase that. Each to their own, though!

 

[sophiecentaur]

For me, the lowest possible dwell time in the bathroom is best,

No scented candles and whale songs for you then?
An extractor fan with hygrostat is a cheaper solution than heat.

 

[anorlunda]

Today's news contains photos of the frayed extension cord that electrocuted the girl.

Let's examine the safety engineering lessons to be learned from this thread. The safety engineer does:

1. Start with physics and ohm's law.
2. Add biology (lethality of shocks)
3. Add non-standard failure modes (a frayed cord). Hundreds of failure mode scenarios are possible.
4. Add human behavior. If there is no socket in the bathroom (a) Users will dry their hair and charge their phones in other rooms, enhancing safety. OR (b) Users will run extension cords from other rooms (as this girl did), decreasing safety.

It is easy to see how different jurisdictions might produce safety codes where one makes a bathroom socket mandatory and another jurisdiction forbids them. Both conclusions might be right and proper if they correctly forecast the behavior of local people. But it bewilders outsiders who can't understand why they are so different; especially if the outsiders are interested only in step 1 of the process (the physics.)

Now let's examine the dynamics of international public forums like PF. That is a separate subject that interests me.

1. The thread started with posters curious about the safety implications of a set of facts reported in the press. That set of facts turned out to be false. The discussion has meandered and drifted far far away from the original question. Sometimes, the mentors cut us off for doing that, sometimes not.
2. Any person jumping in now, is not likely to read the entire history of this thread. The longer the thread (# of posts) the more difficult it becomes to stay on-topic. I am fond of what @Dale once said that the best answer is often given in post #2 and threads go downhill from there.
3. This is a casual conversation. We all offer opinions without a rigorous and comprehensive agreement about what subject we are commenting on. If this were a formal international conference, much boring groundwork would be necessary to make sure that all participants are on the same page regarding the topic before anyone offers opinions about anything.
4. We all bring our local experiences, local customs and local assumptions to the table. But we have only vague or zero knowledge about the localities of other participants in the conversation.
5. We know absolutely nothing about this thread's lurkers, now or in the future. We don't know how many. We don't know their backgrounds. It is hard to remember that they even exist.
6. Despite all those handicaps, we enjoy doing it and we usually manage to learn something from it beyond post #2. Long live PF.

 

[Guineafowl]

A nice round-up of the thread, @anorlunda . We have indeed drifted off-topic a little! Just one more thing...

Add human behavior. If there is no socket in the bathroom (a) Users will dry their hair and charge their phones in other rooms, enhancing safety. OR (b) Users will run extension cords from other rooms (as this girl did), decreasing safety.

Most people would champion their country's way of doing things, I admit. What you grow up with becomes 'what is right'. The lack of sockets in UK bathrooms can be defeated by an extension cord, yes, but I think that same lack reinforces the idea that mains power in a watery room can be dangerous. So we are discouraged from using an extension cord by that mental conditioning.

Mention using an electric heater on a cord into a bathroom and most here would give a little intake of breath (you know, the 'experts' propping up the bar). You may have rigged it fairly safely but there's always that little mental flag. If it's OK to use mains in the bathroom then why do you never see a socket in there?

On the other hand, I suppose it might be nice to have a radio in there. The morning bathroom routine is so boring...

 

[sophiecentaur]

The morning bathroom routine is so boring...

The BBC Radio 4 'Today' prog lifts the gloom. But they seldom mention matters a long way from London (except to knock the SNP or Mr Trump).

 

[anorlunda]

but I think that same lack reinforces the idea that mains power in a watery room can be dangerous.

True, but stretch your imagination further. Not everyone lives in a house. Not everyone has walled-off areas that you could call rooms.

I have those differences fresh in mind because I just finished 12 years living on a small boat, and I have moved from there to an RV (you might call it a caravan) that has some house-like features but not all.

People who read this post on PF can be very diverse culturally.

 

[russ_watters]

Today's news contains photos of the frayed extension cord that electrocuted the girl.

Let's examine the safety engineering lessons to be learned from this thread...

Great wrap-up.

Now let's examine the dynamics of international public forums like PF. That is a separate subject that interests me.

1. The thread started with posters curious about the safety implications of a set of facts reported in the press. That set of facts turned out to be false. The discussion has meandered and drifted far far away from the original question. Sometimes, the mentors cut us off for doing that, sometimes not.
2. Any person jumping in now, is not likely to read the entire history of this thread. The longer the thread (# of posts) the more difficult it becomes to stay on-topic. I am fond of what @Dale once said that the best answer is often given in post #2 and threads go downhill from there.
3. This is a casual conversation. We all offer opinions without a rigorous and comprehensive agreement about what subject we are commenting on. If this were a formal international conference, much boring groundwork would be necessary to make sure that all participants are on the same page regarding the topic before anyone offers opinions about anything.
4. We all bring our local experiences, local customs and local assumptions to the table. But we have only vague or zero knowledge about the localities of other participants in the conversation.
5. We know absolutely nothing about this thread's lurkers, now or in the future. We don't know how many. We don't know their backgrounds. It is hard to remember that they even exist.
6. Despite all those handicaps, we enjoy doing it and we usually manage to learn something from it beyond post #2. Long live PF.

Great extension. And as a moderator, I will acknowledge a) not having checked-in on the thread for a few days and b) that I probably wouldn't have tried to steer the thread back on topic or lock it if I had. As you correctly pointed out in post #2, we didn't have enough information, and that's a recipe for a meandering thread. But at the same time, much of the speculation/discussion was valuable and it kept the thread in view until the media hype died-down and the much simpler truth came out.

Long live PF!

 

[Victor Ray Rutledge]

Being a resident of Texas, I can verify the following. First, not all bathroom outlets have GFCI, in spite of regulations to the contrary. Secondly, she may have submerged both her hand, and the phone, since electrical safety has never been a major priority in this area. Beyond that, she could have had a 'generic' phone charger, of almost any manufacture, but her parents would have denied that, for reasons of liability. Finally, exactly what occurred, and why, will never be known, as there is a suit for wrongful death in the works, and the story will conform to whatever the lawyer suggests. It's probably tragic, but the truth will remain hidden.