What Idea Shapes Your Political Philosophy?

[Anttech]

<--- what's happened to me?

 

[Smasherman]

I detest the liberal political philosophy nicely expressed by this platitude.
QUOTE=Smasherman] Ultimately, the enlightenment of humanity. Specifically:
socialism, veganism, and (real) education.

.[/QUOTE]

What I am saying here is that the enlightenment of humanity has highest priority; Socialism, veganism, and (real) education are secondary, meaning that they can be discarded if found incorrect.

Socialism because it seems to offer the best solution to the world's economic problems.

Veganism because of the benefits for both an individual and society.

(real) Education because it is what appears to allow an individual to find the path of enlightenment.


I assert that the enlightenment of humanity is the ultimate goal that must be achieved. The other things I mentioned are only the best-looking means to that end, as I see it.

 

[Gokul43201]

I assert that the enlightenment of humanity is the ultimate goal that must be achieved.

You haven't defined this "enlightenment"...would you, please ?

 

[Smasherman]

You haven't defined this "enlightenment"...would you, please ?

It's not a very solid goal. It's irrationally based, as are all things. This is not philosophy, and nor do I wish to fully explain my belief. Let it be said that "enlightenment" is the state where one is not "forced" to think certain thoughts by another. This is essentially the opposite of dogma.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are you referring to the driving license?

Yes; in this day and age, the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, depends on one's ability to function within society. It may be a minor point in practice, but in principle I see driving as a right that is surrendered only when the public's safety is at stake. [rant]But beyond that, I see the [motorycycle] helmet and seatbelt laws for adults as violations of this principle as well. The intent of these laws make perfectly good sense, and I always wear my seatbelt when driving cars and a helmet when riding bikes, but personal rights of choice should not generally be surrendered in the interest of health insurance premiums.[/rant]

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Just an observation, nothing more, would it matter if we seem to observe that the American constitution was based on autochthonic legislation?

Absolutely! At one point I remember seeing a list of documents and philosophies from which the authors of the Constitution borrowed ideas and principles... it seems to me that it was quite long. And of course the Constitutional debates are famous for their deep philosophical content.

 

[GENIERE]

...But in practice rights are not assumed to exist. I see this as one of the great failings of Constitutional law.

I tend to agree with your comments in this post but I'm confused by "failings of Constitutional law". Is there an alternative you're considering or just musing.

 

[GENIERE]

Just an observation, nothing more, would it matter if we seem to observe that the American constitution was based on autochthonic legislation

I ran across this a few years ago. IMO the US constitution was not based on it but it was highly influential.

I wonder how well it served the several nations?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I tend to agree with your comments in this post but I'm confused by "failings of Constitutional law". Is there an alternative you're considering or just musing.

I believe that the spirit if not the letter of the constitution has been violated by the aforementioned loopholes. The States have become dependant on the Fed for money, which results in expanded and unintended federal powers. Now, since the Federal Government is funded by taxes, it seems to me that the Federal tax rate is the problem. We give the Feds money who then give it back to the State, and in doing so we surrender the State's autonomy, and in some cases, personal liberties. One example of this was the 55 MPH Federal speed limit which was enforced with the threat of withholding Fed funds. It seems to me that this situation needs to be corrected. The fed has far too much influence.

 

[GENIERE]

I believe that the spirit if not the letter of the constitution has been violated by the aforementioned loopholes. The States have become dependant on the Fed for money, which results in expanded and unintended federal powers. Now, since the Federal Government is funded by taxes, it seems to me that the Federal tax rate is the problem. We give the Feds money who then give it back to the State, and in doing so we surrender the State's autonomy, and in some cases, personal liberties. One example of this was the 55 MPH Federal speed limit which was enforced with the threat of withholding Fed funds. It seems to me that this situation needs to be corrected. The fed has far too much influence.

Amen brother!

 

[GENIERE]

.

What I am saying here is that the enlightenment … [/QUOTE]

Had I realized you were a youngster, I would have been less gruff in my comment.

In my youth, I was an “enlightened” ultra liberal and voted for JFK and LBJ. I can’t describe the elation I felt when LBJ won all but 6 or 7 states in the ’64 election.

The “enlightenment of humanity” is a phrase that will have as many meanings as there are human inhabitants of this planet. It cannot be defined, as you have discovered, so one cannot plan a course to achieve it. Platitudinal and negative phrases dominate liberal writing and are difficult to criticize. The phrase “Bush is an idiot” is an opinion, I cannot disprove an opinion but I can opine that the writer lacks intelligence. I cannot be against the concept of everyone receiving a “real education”, I might favor the concept if I knew what it was.

As far as Socialism, you will be hard pressed to find a viable socialist economy. I suggest you review the stagnant economies of Germany and France v. the economy of India. You may find that India began to prosper when the government removed the shackles of a planned economy, as did the UK under Mrs. Thatcher. The once touted French health care system proved itself unable to tend to the needs of 14000 of its citizens who died during a recent heat wave. Compare the results of President Clinton’s economic policies to those of President Carter. Compare the position of the USA to that of the EU re: a democratic Muslim nation (Turkey) being permitted to join the EU. I submit the EU is more racist than the US; that they simply have not faced the problem before (ignoring the ever prevalent anti-Semitism). Marx’s scapegoat (leftist writers always need a scapegoat) was Judaism. He equated Judaism with capitalism, not the religion. The modern scapegoats are, the corporation, oil, capitalism, individuality, the wealthy, Christianity, Judaism, Islam and the most evil of all nations, the USA.

 

[Smurf]

Ha! The deaths of the heat wave was because of France's heathcare system was socialist. Funny.

 

[vanesch]

Compare the position of the USA to that of the EU re: a democratic Muslim nation (Turkey) being permitted to join the EU.

? What democratic Muslim nation has recently joined the USA ?

(nah, don't say "Iraq" )

 

[Anttech]

You may find that India began to prosper when the government removed the shackles of a planned economy, as did the UK under Mrs. Thatcher.

So you are saying the economy is good in the UK? All Thatcher did was move the UK out of an industry based economy to a service based economy. The UK still has many “socialistic” ideals in place. For example the NHS, the BBC.

Compare the position of the USA to that of the EU re: a democratic Muslim nation (Turkey) being permitted to join the EU. I submit the EU is more racist than the US; that they simply have not faced the problem before (ignoring the ever prevalent anti-Semitism)

Opinion!

May I point you to your country History.. Racist indeed!

Points you obviously don’t understand, or care to understand:

a) Turkey is occupying a EU state.
b) In most Countries in the EU and the Commission it is Ilegal to deny the Young Turks Holocaust, which turkey does.
c) There economy is poor, and is no where near inline enough with the rest of Europe’s.
d) Most Europeans (Original EU states) believe the EU is already too big now, and needs some reforming.
e) Turkey have not been refused entry, the EU are talking about how to do it and when.
f) Turkey is Geographically not in Europe, so if we allow them in, should we also allow in Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Kurdistan, Iraq….
g) The Turkish people don’t want to be in Europe, they want to have the economical benefits but don’t really want to be part of Brussels

The once touted French health care system proved itself unable to tend to the needs of 14000 of its citizens who died during a recent heat wave.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/799444.stm

France leads the world in health care, says the World Health Organisation in a major report, which rates the UK 18th and the US 37th - despite being the country which spends the most per head.
The rating is based on a comprehensive assessment of medical treatment, including factors such as availability of medical insurance and pharmacies.

 

[Anttech]

Germany and France v. the economy of India

GDP
US $40,100
France $ 27,600
Germany $ 27,600
India $3,100

Population below poverty line:
US 12%
France 6.5%
Germany NA
India 25%

prospering?

Lets add the US for a laugh... Hmm why is thre GDP so high yet there is such poverty? (Figures taken from CIA fact book)

 

[Mercator]

What I am saying here is that the enlightenment …
Had I realized you were a youngster, I would have been less gruff in my comment.
In my youth, I was an “enlightened” ultra liberal and voted for JFK and LBJ. I can’t describe the elation I felt when LBJ won all but 6 or 7 states in the ’64 election.
The “enlightenment of humanity” is a phrase that will have as many meanings as there are human inhabitants of this planet. It cannot be defined, as you have discovered, so one cannot plan a course to achieve it. Platitudinal and negative phrases dominate liberal writing and are difficult to criticize. The phrase “Bush is an idiot” is an opinion, I cannot disprove an opinion but I can opine that the writer lacks intelligence. I cannot be against the concept of everyone receiving a “real education”, I might favor the concept if I knew what it was.
As far as Socialism, you will be hard pressed to find a viable socialist economy. I suggest you review the stagnant economies of Germany and France v. the economy of India. You may find that India began to prosper when the government removed the shackles of a planned economy, as did the UK under Mrs. Thatcher. The once touted French health care system proved itself unable to tend to the needs of 14000 of its citizens who died during a recent heat wave. Compare the results of President Clinton’s economic policies to those of President Carter. Compare the position of the USA to that of the EU re: a democratic Muslim nation (Turkey) being permitted to join the EU. I submit the EU is more racist than the US; that they simply have not faced the problem before (ignoring the ever prevalent anti-Semitism). Marx’s scapegoat (leftist writers always need a scapegoat) was Judaism. He equated Judaism with capitalism, not the religion. The modern scapegoats are, the corporation, oil, capitalism, individuality, the wealthy, Christianity, Judaism, Islam and the most evil of all nations, the USA.

Geniere, Geniere. Yes, I'm sure any German would sofort for the Indian style of living... Gutter health care and one meal a day if you're lucky. The country is a total mess with here and there an island of relative prosperity. A life is worth nothing. In chemical factories workers do their job without protective clothing, loading dangerous chemicals with buckets in drums, with naked hand and feet! The GDP growth is 7% per year. Which means that a few of the upper kastes get 7 % richer. Give it another fifty years and the Indian economy might surpass ... the Spanish for example.

Oh, and can you link to that racism meter? You know, when children have a problem, they always point at others first?

 

[kat]

An individuals equal right to liberty and the existence of universal moral truths.

 

[kat]

I believe that the spirit if not the letter of the constitution has been violated by the aforementioned loopholes. The States have become dependant on the Fed for money, which results in expanded and unintended federal powers. Now, since the Federal Government is funded by taxes, it seems to me that the Federal tax rate is the problem. We give the Feds money who then give it back to the State, and in doing so we surrender the State's autonomy, and in some cases, personal liberties. One example of this was the 55 MPH Federal speed limit which was enforced with the threat of withholding Fed funds. It seems to me that this situation needs to be corrected. The fed has far too much influence.

...never thought you and I would agree so strongly on any single ideal...wow, spoken like a true conservative

 

[Zlex]

One Skin; One Driver.

 

[Lisa!]

Right now world peace, but as soon as I grow up enough, I would realize I must be loyal to "what's best for me". (right now I think "world peace is the best for all included me")

? What democratic Muslim nation has recently joined the USA ?
(nah, don't say "Iraq" )

Do we have any democratic Muslim nation other than Iraq and perhaps Afghanistan?

 

[Skyhunter]

We are one.

 

[Lisa!]

Who are you?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...never thought you and I would agree so strongly on any single ideal...wow, spoken like a true conservative

I volunteered for the Reagan campaign. Given the same circumstances I probably wouldn't now, that is my views have changed, but GHWB and son and the influx of the extreme right is what made a Democrat out of me.

 

[Smurf]

Do we have any democratic Muslim nation other than Iraq and perhaps Afghanistan?

Isn't the US still supporting that dictatoship in Burma?. I'm fairly sure there's a sizable muslim minority there.

edit: oh, democratic. never mind.

 

[russ_watters]

Lets add the US for a laugh... Hmm why is thre GDP so high yet there is such poverty? (Figures taken from CIA fact book)

Two reasons: first, the difference between capitalism and socialism means countries like France have a much higher unemployment rate, but much lower poverty. It's a tradeoff.

Second, the poverty line in the US is pretty strict. Comparing one country to another is difficult without comparing where the line is.

 

[Anttech]

Second, the poverty line in the US is pretty strict.

As it is in the EU... Show me evidence that its any difference, I doubt it is.

I aggree with your first point, but France isn't pure socialism, just more than the states is.. France has a large private sector just like in US, and there are many skilled Jobs just like in the States (perhaps there will be more if your Companies keep looking at that bottom line and move more and more Jobs to India)

 

[Astronuc]

Now, since the Federal Government is funded by taxes, it seems to me that the Federal tax rate is the problem.

State and local governemnts are funded by taxes too. Some states like Texas and Alaska have benefitted very well from oil revenue. That works well, but not for most states.

We give the Feds money who then give it back to the State, and in doing so we surrender the State's autonomy, and in some cases, personal liberties.

That's not such a bad thing necessarily, except when the state becomes dependent. However, there are significant disadvantages with respect to funding the inherent Federal and State bureaucracies. There are similar situations also in private industry as well - intermdiaries who do nothing but project administration, and who collect generous fees or salaries (overhead), but add not value to the final product/project.

One example of this was the 55 MPH Federal speed limit which was enforced with the threat of withholding Fed funds.

That's not so bad - everyone across the country participates, and it did save money and help reduce the trade imbalance. And it did tend to save lives - fewer people died in high speed automobile accidents.

It seems to me that this situation needs to be corrected. The fed has far too much influence.

That has been partially corrected. The Federal government has been spending less on some states (e.g. NY) and more on private industry - look at the war in Iraq - Halliburton, Titan, CACI, . . . .

Oh, and the taxes in NY state went up to offset the reduction in Federal revenue. The people of NY actually have received less from the Fed government than they have cumulatively contributed in taxes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

That's not so bad - everyone across the country participates, and it did save money and help reduce the trade imbalance. And it did tend to save lives - fewer people died in high speed automobile accidents.

I agreed with the reasoning but not the method of implementation. There are many good ideas that would undermine Constitutional rights. For example, in the interest of public safety, wouldn't it make sense to allow random searches? In this light we not in danger of hitting the slippery slope, rather we have already slid to the bottom of the hill and now stare into the abyss.

 

[loseyourname]

Personally, I think we'd be better off, and it seems that I'm agreeing with Ivan here, if the federal government was financed entirely by the taxing of interstate commerce and we paid all of our personal taxes to the states themselves. This would work fine if we limited the federal government to the domains alloted to it when the nation first began - basically, national defense, negotiation with foreign entities, and regulation of interstate and international commerce. The states themselves could carry out other functions, including those currently carried out by the fed, with far less bureaucracy.

Of course, we would run into one glaringly obvious problem - the disparity in quality of life from state to state would widen. For instance, poor states like Mississippi and Arkansas would have very little money to spend relative to wealthy states like California and Wyoming (I know we don't typically think of Wyoming, but in terms of state revenue per resident, it is very high on the list). This could perhaps be rectified by some voluntary level of revenue sharing like what we see in Major League Baseball - or simply as seen on the international stage in the form of wealthier countries giving aid to poorer countries.

 

[Smurf]

Wouldn't interstate tax still be 'tariffs'. Doesn't that go against your capitalist "free market" stuff.

 

[Skyhunter]

Who are you?

You misunderstood, I wasn't answering your question. That is the idea I am most loyal to.
WE ARE ONE

 

[loseyourname]

Wouldn't interstate tax still be 'tariffs'. Doesn't that go against your capitalist "free market" stuff.

And? I'm a pragmatist, smurf. There is absolutely no chance of completely abolishing the federal government, which is the only thing we could do if they had no source of funding whatsoever. I suppose they could try to raise money through some means other than taxation, but they would be the first government that I've ever known of to do so.

 

[GENIERE]

As it is in the EU... Show me evidence that its any difference, I doubt it is.
I aggree with your first point, but France isn't pure socialism, just more than the states is.. France has a large private sector just like in US, and there are many skilled Jobs just like in the States (perhaps there will be more if your Companies keep looking at that bottom line and move more and more Jobs to India)

Outsourcing is indeed a problem for the US. IMO it eventually will prove to be beneficial. What the US needs most is wealthy trading partners having citizens enjoying comparative wages. Given time, a global free market will create wealth for all the citizens of the world to enjoy
In a world market, to my knowledge, a nation has two means to acquire capital, selling goods and services, and attracting investment capital from other governments and foreign private investors. In the US, we have a large trade deficit that is negated by an even larger inflow of investment capital i.e., our debt is financed externally. The US has been the economic engine of the entire world for more than 60 years while steadily increasing its national debt. I suspect the US can only sustain the world’s economy for another decade or so. Europe is not pulling its weight, which leaves only China and India to spur future growth.
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/05/1252&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
Lisbon Agenda:
The EU invests about a third less in research than the US, and the EU/US innovation gap has not narrowed in recent years. Meanwhile, emerging countries like China and India are fast becoming world-class centres of research and innovation. To address this challenge, the Commission has tabled an integrated innovation/research action plan, which calls for a major upgrade of the conditions for research and innovation in Europe. It launches ambitious initiatives to promote innovation and research, such as redeployment of state aid, improved efficiency of intellectual property protection, mobilisation of additional funds for research, creation of innovation poles, and improving university-industry partnerships…
I opine the plan will be a failure, that innovation will not occur in a society made complacent by the false guarantee of government provided largess.

 

[GENIERE]

? What democratic Muslim nation has recently joined the USA ?
(nah, don't say "Iraq" )

None that I know of but for Turkey I would be willing to trade San Fransisco, Berkely, Los Angeles, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia Eagles, Dallas Cowboys, Washington Redskins, Google Corp, Carter, Clinton(s) and Quebec. If Carter and Clinton are deal killers, I'll substitute three kilos of lard.

 

[Mercator]

The ability to love.