What impact will a possible war with North Korea have on American troops?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the potential impact of a war outbreak on American troops and the concerns of someone in the reserves. It also mentions the military capabilities of North Korea and the possibility of an attack on a US warship. The conversation then delves into possible solutions and strategies for dealing with North Korea, including outsourcing the job to China and waiting for the regime to fall apart. The conversation also touches on North Korea's nuclear and ballistic missile programs and the political motives behind reports on their military capabilities. Finally, there is a debate about the likelihood of a war with North Korea and the potential outcome.
  • #1
Pattonias
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I'm wondering what kind of impact an outbreak of war will have on the American troops. Being in the reserves right now, I'm becoming nervous.

I honestly don't see how it can be avoided now. The North Koreans have begun to gird themselves, and the South Koreans and the US can't ignore or backdown from a deliberate attack on a warship.
 
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  • #2
Unlikely:

The army doesn't do jungles. Been there, didn't like it - not doing it again.

Reruns are never popular.

We are a little bit over committed at the moment. Even leaving out the military logistics you are going to be scraping the barrel for entertainers. Fighting a jungle war in SE Asia is bad enough - but imagine if the USNO concert is by David Hasselhof.

N Korea's major resource is Kimchi. "No blood for pickled Cabbage" looks silly on a protest banner.

Obvious place to outsource the job to is China. Seem to be having difficulty persuading China that invading 3rd world countries for their natural resources is part of being a free capitalist democracy.

So what can you do?
Admittedly sanctions are tricky when they having nothing anyone else wants (especially Kimchi) and nobody else has anything they can afford.
Best solution is probably the Cuba/East Germany model. Wait for dictator to die, regime falls apart then the population can move into the neighboring country and become petty criminals/hookers.

Remember this is a last gasp attempt by the N Korean government to get public opinion on it's side. The Americans invade and it's a "rally around the beloved leader to repel the foreign invaders".

It's like if you wanted to boost recruitment for any terrorist group the best way to do it would be to invade another country with no involvement and kill a bunch of civilians, then a large number of people switch from "those al Queda nutters are giving islam a bad name" to "they are our only hope to stop the evil Americans killing us all"
 
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  • #3
From Wiki

According to the U.S. Department of State, North Korea has the fifth-largest army in the world, at an estimated 1.21 million armed personnel, with about 20% of men aged 17–54 in the regular armed forces.[64]

North Korea has the highest percentage of military personnel per capita of any nation in the world, with approximately 1 enlisted soldier for every 25 citizens.[65] Military strategy is designed for insertion of agents and sabotage behind enemy lines in wartime,[64] with much of the KPA's forces deployed along the heavily fortified Korean Demilitarized Zone. The Korean People's Army operates a very large amount of equipment, including 4,060 tanks, 2,500 APCs, 17,900 artillery pieces (incl. mortars), 11,000 air defence guns in the Ground force; at least 915 vessels in the Navy and 1,748 aircraft in the Air Force,[66] as well as some 10,000 MANPADS and anti-tank guided missiles.[67] The equipment is a mixture of World War II vintage vehicles and small arms, widely proliferated Cold War technology, and more modern Soviet weapons. According to official North Korean media, planned military expenditures for 2009 are 15.8% of GDP.[68]

North Korea has nuclear and ballistic missile weapons programs and has been subject to United Nations Security Council resolutions 1695 of July 2006, 1718 of October 2006, and 1874 of June 2009, for carrying out both missile and nuclear tests. North Korea probably has fissile material for up to 9 nuclear weapons,[69] and has the capability to deploy nuclear warheads on intermediate-range ballistic missiles.[70]
 
  • #4
North Korea has nuclear and ballistic missile weapons programs and has been subject to United Nations Security Council resolutions 1695 of July 2006, 1718 of October 2006, and 1874 of June 2009, for carrying out both missile and nuclear tests. North Korea probably has fissile material for up to 9 nuclear weapons,[69] and has the capability to deploy nuclear warheads on intermediate-range ballistic missiles.[70]
It tested one underground device that was a partial fizzle, it's a long way from an Ivy mike type test to something that can be used on an ICBM.
As we have seen UN reports on 'rouge states' military capability can owe more to political expediency than technical accuracy.
 
  • #5
mgb_phys said:
It tested one underground device that was a partial fizzle, it's a long way from an Ivy mike type test to something that can be used on an ICBM.
As we have seen UN reports on 'rouge states' military capability can owe more to political expediency than technical accuracy.

I don't think they would care about an ICBM at this point. All they have to do it drop one over Seoul which is close to border, or drop one close to US/Korean navy ships.
 
  • #6
mgb_phys said:
It tested one underground device that was a partial fizzle, it's a long way from an Ivy mike type test to something that can be used on an ICBM.
As we have seen UN reports on 'rouge states' military capability can owe more to political expediency than technical accuracy.

I highly doubt it matters to South Korea that NK doesn't have ICBMs :smile:. I honestly hate when people use that logic.

I would say a war with NK is highly unlikely however if it DOES occur and America got involved I feel safe in saying that it doesn't matter if NK had the world's largest army, they would still get stomped. They may over spend on their military and they might have a crap-load of people in the military but it's still peanuts compared to what a developed nation spends on its military.
 
  • #7
zomgwtf said:
I would say a war with NK is highly unlikely however if it DOES occur and America got involved I feel safe in saying that it doesn't matter if NK had the world's largest army, they would still get stomped. They may over spend on their military and they might have a crap-load of people in the military but it's still peanuts compared to what a developed nation spends on its military.

I recall another war in recent history that the US entered into with that philosophy...
 
  • #8
cristo said:
I recall another war in recent history that the US entered into with that philosophy...

Which?
 
  • #9
I seriously doubt that North Korea would have the military support of China to fight on their side this time. I think the Chinese would allow the regime to fall and then insist the the US stop interfering.

The US's ability to fight conventional wars has never been in doubt. It's the unconventional that gives us problems. Without China fighting for them they would lose badly. Especially if they decide to use nuclear arms.

Thats not to say it would be an easy win, the fighting will be terrible. They just don't have the resources to win.
 
  • #10
On the political / grand strategic level, I agree with mgb_phys, there is little to prove and little to gain with another war. We should not seek it and inter-state conflicts With China's help it should be possible to prevent it. However there is an ally at gunpoint. South Korea, and it's not looking good.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/south-korea/T8USE217FVKC3EKML

On the strategical level, things are not looking good for N-Korea. They appear to be rather vulnerable for a Warden III[/url] type of air strategy.
 
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  • #11
That is just it, the war would be against the regime. Their would be no other benefits. It would be in China's interest if they fought on the side of the South Koreans, if they want North Korea to remain Communist.
 
  • #12
So my question is who would be in the axis of evil and who would be the axis of good this time around?
 
  • #13
magpies said:
So my question is who would be in the axis of evil and who would be the axis of good this time around?

Why do you continue to post at these forums. :smile:.
 
  • #14
magpies said:
So my question is who would be in the axis of evil and who would be the axis of good this time around?

It would be more like the ocean of good and the islands of evil. (From our perspective)
I think the only country that doesn't roll their eyes when talking to North Korea is Iran.
 
  • #15
Ya but the russians back iran/north korea to an point. Also I suspect china would side with north korea also. So if south korea and north korea go at it you could have russia and china supporting. And the US is likely to just sit it out so this could be leading to a big power play by china possibly? I'm sure china would love to get there hands on korea.
 
  • #16
got to wonder just how much food NK has stored up, and just how long they could sustain a war.
 
  • #17
magpies said:
Ya but the russians back iran/north korea to an point. Also I suspect china would side with north korea also. So if south korea and north korea go at it you could have russia and china supporting. And the US is likely to just sit it out so this could be leading to a big power play by china possibly? I'm sure china would love to get there hands on korea.

Thats just it, I think that the Chinese are just as likely to take over in North Korea as they don't want them slinging nukes on their doorstep anymore than they want them slaughtering the South Koreans.
 
  • #18
What makes you think china cares about the south koreans so much?
 
  • #19
The new emerging lead super-power can't be seen condoning the slaughter of a peaceful people in such a public way. They would also risk open war with the United States and her allies. You would actually see a possible WW3 if China sided with a near lunatic in a war. Their best options are to either stay neutral or to aid in a regime change. If they want North Korea to reamain communist, they need to make the regime change.
 
  • #20
Ok your right so how about the iran aspect? They might try something funny during this you think?
 
  • #21
I think Iran could only help by eithr providing aid, such as food and medical supplies; or they could help militarily by declaring war and openly attacking us in the middle east. I seriously doubt they would make the second move, but they will probably render aid through non-military means.
 
  • #22
Pattonias said:
The new emerging lead super-power can't be seen condoning the slaughter of a peaceful people in such a public way. They would also risk open war with the United States and her allies. You would actually see a possible WW3 if China sided with a near lunatic in a war. Their best options are to either stay neutral or to aid in a regime change. If they want North Korea to reamain communist, they need to make the regime change.

The thing is though that, I believe, most Koreans want a reunification. I think that South Korea with American backing would be the best bet at making this happening, they would be able to provide the most support to North Korea in order to rebuild it. This however wouldn't be in the best interests of China because then it would have a pretty important border with a really free democratic country. On the other hand, if China assisted in removing the current regime and putting in place a new one they would have to deal with A LOT of refugees.
 
  • #23
zomgwtf said:
The thing is though that, I believe, most Koreans want a reunification. I think that South Korea with American backing would be the best bet at making this happening, they would be able to provide the most support to North Korea in order to rebuild it. This however wouldn't be in the best interests of China because then it would have a pretty important border with a really free democratic country. On the other hand, if China assisted in removing the current regime and putting in place a new one they would have to deal with A LOT of refugees.

That is where they have the advantage of being communist. They can say "if you cross this line, we will shoot"; unlike the US and the Mexican border. If they put in a puppet government, they can force the people to stay. If the people are treated better than they are now, they will have no reason to flee their country regardless.
 
  • #24
China's prosperity is tied to US trade and US-financed manufacturing. Would they risk that to support NK in a war against the South?

The US has risks in this situation, too, because we participated in trade agreements that let US manufacturers ship manufacturing jobs overseas to countries where wages are low and workers' rights are non-existent. How soon could we recover the manufacturing capacity that we had 20-25 years ago?
 
  • #25
Now that I think about it I bet obama finds a way to screw this up if anything. Not that bush wouldn't have done worse.
 
  • #26
It is a powder-keg and no one seems to be panicking just yet.
 
  • #27
I think that South Korea has had its fill with North Korea playing the War Threat card. They appear to be seriously PO'd this time.
 
  • #28
Imagine if the Iranian military purposely sank a US warship in the Persian Gulf, and killed nearly fifty of our servicemen. Would we be as patient?
 
  • #29
Probably the US is pretty tolerant when it comes to these things... Don't get me wrong we would hit them back but not full out war.
 
  • #30
Pattonias said:
Imagine if the Iranian military purposely sank a US warship in the Persian Gulf, and killed nearly fifty of our servicemen. Would we be as patient?

Difference being of course: America can easily go to war with Iran and be victorious, can South Korea do the same? Without endangering it's own citizens? (Iran IS on the otherside of the world from America you know)
 
  • #31
I don't think the US can go to war with iran and be victorious right now...
 
  • #32
Pattonias said:
Imagine if the Iranian military purposely sank a US warship in the Persian Gulf, and killed nearly fifty of our servicemen. Would we be as patient?

magpies said:
Probably the US is pretty tolerant when it comes to these things... Don't get me wrong we would hit them back but not full out war.

Iran prefers to let others do their dirty work by supplying groups like Al Qaeda in Iraq blow up Americans one convoy at a time.

Of course, the US would never do something like that through the CIA.:rolleyes:
 
  • #33
SK would spend a ton of money reintegrating NK, much of that spent on chinese products
 
  • #34
magpies said:
I don't think the US can go to war with iran and be victorious right now...

:smile: That's laughable.
 
  • #35
ya pretty much :)
 

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