What Sci-Fi Got Wrong: Alcohol in Space

[Hornbein]

As for The Alien changing mass, that tradition goes back to King Kong.

 

[Filip Larsen]

So how many human crewmembers does the Enterprise really need with nearly god-like AI? Just maybe one or two disposable ones for landing parties?

The loss of crew is their own fault! One would think the computer or some of the highly intelligent crew onboard would have picked up on the correlation between uniform color (when that color is red) and fatality rate in landing parties, but noooo.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No? You don't think that there are traditions we have today that are 400 years old and have spread throughout civilization?

Smoking a fine cigar.
Japanese tea ceremony.
Extending a hand in greeting (to show that it holds no weapon).
Making bread in a kiln.
Practicing archery.
"Good-bye" (God Be With Ye).
"Jesus Christ!"
etc.

I don't think it is an accident that a fine tradition like pouring brandy shows up in futuristic shows. I think it's thought through quite carefully as a timeless symbol of long friendships or new friendships, camaraderie, taking time for the good things in life - not to mention a reverence for timeless traditions.

I think the fact that you are dumping poison in your body will kill it. Drinking will eventually go the way of smoking, as it should!

 

[DaveC426913]

I think the fact that you are dumping poison in your body will kill it.

But we've done that for all the recorded history. Why have we not stopped, and what would change in the future to stop it?

Drinking will eventually go the way of smoking, as it should!

We figured out that smoking causes death by cancer only in the last 50 years. And in surprisingly small amounts - unlike alcohol, which, in moderation, is considered healthy.

 

[italicus]

Let me throw my coin here.

Did anybody notice that , at least in old movies like Star Trek, the astronauts always stand still ? This is wrong, one can stand still in a spaceship only when it is accelerated...continuously accelerated...! No gravity is supposed therein.
An artificial gravity can be created by rotation with a given angular velocity. This is done in Interstellar.
But one as to be careful: moving into a rotating reference frame , like the Endurance, gives problems with the Coriolis force, which can displace you aside, it depends on vec\omega and vec\v.
There is a good lesson by Walter Lewin on the Tube.

 

[DaveC426913]

Let me throw my coin here.

Did anybody notice that , at least in old movies like Star Trek, the astronauts always stand still ? This is wrong, one can stand still in a spaceship only when it is accelerated...continuously accelerated...! No gravity is supposed therein.
An artificial gravity can be created by rotation with a given angular velocity. This is done in Interstellar.
But one as to be careful: moving into a rotating reference frame , like the Endurance, gives problems with the Coriolis force, which can displace you aside, it depends on vec\omega and vec\v.
There is a good lesson by Walter Lewin on the Tube.

??

The Star Trek universe has ships that generate their own gravity using technobabble.

 

[italicus]

The Star Trek universe has ships that generate their own gravity using technobabble

What ‘s a technobabble? Too many years have passed!

 

[DaveC426913]

What ‘s a technobabble? Too many years have passed!

Actually, I don't think they ever get into the tech of it. They're just talk about the "gravity generators". They are linked with the "inertial dampers" that stops everyone from being wall-jam.

Can anybody list a specific film or show that shows people acting as if there's gravity, even though there shouldn't be any? I was thinking of Space:1999, but I think they actually float when they are in the Eagles in space.

 

[russ_watters]

The other thing is if she went to Vega and back at the speed of light it would take 50 years, I take it a worm hold just cuts that down to practically zero?
If that is the case why does 18 hours equate to an instant?
Should it not be the other way round at least to some extent?
Using the 1-v2c2 I can put Ellie to near to C I get 18 hours = 25 days

Wormhole rules:

• Wormholes take as long to traverse as is necessary to prove how dangerous they are.
• Wormholes are violent; they will shake the ship to slightly less than the shields/dampers can withstand.
• Shaking/turbulence is always horizontal, never vertical, and certainly never producing negative g's.

 

[russ_watters]

So how many human crewmembers does the Enterprise really need with nearly god-like AI? Just maybe one or two disposable ones for landing parties?

I mean at what point do they stop inviting junior crew on away missions and issuing them red shirts?

 

[DaveC426913]

Why didn’t Ellies kit record anything? Why ok before and after but static for 18 hours during the trip?

(It never occurred until now to me that my assumption wasn't the assumption every one else made:)

It was deliberately jammed by the Vegans.

I think the monologue by ersatz Dad avatar said something about humans "aren't ready yet", that they had to be led there one small step at a time, or some such. So, they've essentially made Ellie a modern prophet.

 

[russ_watters]

What ‘s a technobabble? Too many years have passed!

Technical-sounding gibberish.

Actually, I don't think they ever get into the tech of it. They're just talk about the "gravity generators".

According to the technical manual, they provide a controlled stream of gravitons similar to the functioning of the tractor beam. Power from the electro plasma system (EPS) is channeled into a hollow chamber of anicium titanide 454. Suspended in the center of the cylinder, in pressurized chylon gas, is a superconducting stator of thoronium arkenide. The stator rotates at 125,000 rpm, generating the graviton field.

 

[DaveC426913]

Technical-sounding gibberish.

According to the technical manual, they provide a controlled stream of gravitons similar to the functioning of the tractor beam. Power from the electro plasma system (EPS) is channeled into a hollow chamber of anicium titanide 454. Suspended in the center of the cylinder, in pressurized chylon gas, is a superconducting stator of thoronium arkenide. The stator rotates at 125,000 rpm, generating the graviton field.

I wonder if they ever explain how it manages to be perpendicular to the decks at every point in the ship - as if the emitter is near infinity.

 

[russ_watters]

I wonder if they ever explain how it manages to be perpendicular to the decks at every point in the ship - as if the emitter is near infinity.

Were you not listening? It's a controlled stream of gravitons!

 

[pinball1970]

(It never occurred until now to me that my assumption wasn't the assumption every one else made:)

It was deliberately jammed by the Vegans.

I think the monologue by ersatz Dad avatar said something about humans "aren't ready yet", that they had to be led there one small step at a time, or some such. So, they've essentially made Ellie a modern prophet.

That rings a small bell. I think that has been asked and answered before on pf.
Makes sense too thanks.

 

[Vanadium 50]

What ‘s a technobabble?

Treknobabble!

The in-series explanation of why gravity is vertical is "gravity plates". These are apparently self contained with no central control, for plot reasons. "Captain - the creature is isolated to Deck 7" "Set the gravity plates to 1000 g's and send Ensign Timmy down with a mop."

 

[phinds]

"Set the gravity plates to 1000 g's and send Ensign Timmy down with a mop."

But issue him a red shirt first, just in case.

 

[BWV]

Got to cut people in the pre-CGI era some slack, no excuse now though

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Got to cut people in the pre-CGI era some slack, no excuse now though

There is no excuse, is there, apart from science and storytelling don't always play nicely. Exhibit A, Brad Pitt's abominable Ad Astra. I am conflicted vis a vis a recommendation, because it's so lame, but there is the scene with the monkey, and that's hilariously dumb, so what you gunna do?

The in-series explanation of why gravity is vertical is "gravity plates".

I'm using gravity plates in my latest novel, @Vanadium 50, and I thought about this issue for a bit, but it's too complicated to describe anything but 'flat' gravity. Besides, we don't really know how they might work, so I figure it is fair to adopt a degree of narrative license with them.

 

[DaveC426913]

There is no excuse, is there, apart from science and storytelling don't always play nicely. Exhibit A, Brad Pitt's abominable Ad Astra. I am conflicted vis a vis a recommendation, because it's so lame, but there is the scene with the monkey, and that's hilariously dumb, so what you gunna do?

It is a rare film that drives me to anger. Ad Astra was such a film.

It was the whole gravity-pulsey widget that was activated for no apparent reason and could destroy the world - but could not be shut off by anyone except our hero with his mad social skillz (oh but first we'll grind to a STOP in space for a Wellness check before continuing on our way with our infinite fuel supply) that was the entire premise for the plot.

Was this written by a grade school kid with delusions of grandeur?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

But we've done that for all the recorded history. Why have we not stopped, and what would change in the future to stop it?We figured out that smoking causes death by cancer only in the last 50 years. And in surprisingly small amounts - unlike alcohol, which, in moderation, is considered healthy.

We've done it for recorded history? We also did blood letting and human sacrifices for most of recorded history. And for an alcoholic, there is no such a thing as moderation.

If you call brain damage healthy, okay.

This episode of Star Trek was about a race that didn't give up the booze. It was the only accurate future account I've ever seen.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Was this written by a grade school kid with delusions of grandeur?

Written by James Gray (who also directed, that's a probity violation right there) and Ethan Gross (who wrote Fringe episodes, which is a parallel in vibe and thematic scientific accuracy), but I note that there did not seem to be a science advisor assigned. Had one been, it's unlikely they could have saved the film from terminal stupidity, because it needed a narrative transplant and that hardly ever happens.

 

[russ_watters]

Got to cut people in the pre-CGI era some slack, no excuse now though

The main remaining issue I see is the need for actors combined with the inability to fake gravity or lack thereof. That makes zero-g scenes really difficult to get convincing (higher positive g's are easier). Only a handful of movies have actually been filmed in zero-g.

 

[DaveC426913]

...there did not seem to be a science advisor assigned. Had one been, it's unlikely they could have saved the film from terminal stupidity, because it needed a narrative transplant and that hardly ever happens.

Agree. The very premise of the story was broken. To fix that, you'd write a different story.
Which would have been a blessing.

 

[DaveC426913]

The main remaining issue I see is the need for actors combined with the inability to fake gravity or lack thereof. That makes zero-g scenes really difficult to get convincing.

Oh phsaw.

Everybody knows that anyone floating in zero-G alllwaaaaaaays mooooooovesssss reaaaaaaalllllll sllllooooooowwwwww.

 

[russ_watters]

Oh phsaw.

Everybody knows that anyone floating in zero-G alllwaaaaaaays mooooooovesssss reaaaaaaalllllll sllllooooooowwwwww.

And oddly stiff.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

The main remaining issue I see is the need for actors combined with the inability to fake gravity or lack thereof.

That's being sorted...kind of!

https://www.space.com/russian-film-crew-soyuz-docks-at-space-station

 

[Filip Larsen]

Only a handful of movies have actually been filmed in zero-g.

The Apollo 13 movie was a real beauty in that and many other regards (and sorry for being completely off-topic here with a story that for once was done right).

 

[italicus]

And what about Star Wars? All people breathing the same air on all celestial bodies, without breathing apparatus.
gravity always the same, as on Earth, in fact they walk the same way. The Eagle (was this the name of the spacecraft ?) often jumping into hyperspace .
Anything else?

 

[Rive]

And what about Star Wars?

The general category of 'sci-fi' had to be extended with 'space opera' because of that, you know

And within that genre (opera) it is common to finish any important dialogues and sing some duets while dying from a sword though the heart.
Some troubles with the air and celestial bodies... Trivial

 

[italicus]

The name of the spacecraft driven by Ian Solo was Millennium Falcon (1977, first movie)

 

[PeroK]

It is a rare film that drives me to anger. Ad Astra was such a film.

Anyone who went to see that film can hardly complain. It had stinker written all over it.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Anyone who went to see that film can hardly complain. It had stinker written all over it.

That's a bit harsh. Until you've seen it, you just don't know. Your mileage will vary, as the old saying goes. I thought it was a stinker, but the trailer looked good and reviews are so unreliable, so I can complain, I refute your claim

 

[PeroK]

Until you've seen it, you just don't know.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/movie-classics-that-totally-escape-me.976678/#post-6226561

I didn't have to see it. I knew!

 

[Melbourne Guy]

I didn't have to see it. I knew!

I wish I had your extrasensory powers of perception, @PeroK, it would have saved me many hours watching crappy movies

Ironically, one of the trailers during Ad Astra was that Will Smith movie where his younger clone is sent to kill him. It was silly, but much more fun than Ad Astra. It was also full of stuff that sci-fi will likely get wrong, like clones essentially 'being' the original person, but at least it was not taking itself seriously like Brad Pitt apparently was.