- #211
Saint
- 437
- 0
boring,God is not to be debated
musky_ox said:Anyways, there are 2 options: creation, or luck. The way i see it, by taking down 1 theory, you are proving the other. We can point out many holes and inconsistancies in the random chance theory. Evolutionists cannot provide explanations for everything with their theory, it is full of holes.
Saint said:boring,God is not to be debated
YZer said:So what evidence would convince god believers that god does not exist?
Of course god cannot be disproved, because it's not a scientific question; however, an accumulation of facts could lead to many contradictions.
So what's the nail in the coffin?
Of course religious people will/could always spin the facts.
TENYEARS said:These acts have consequnces. If you knew some of the future you would curl into a little ball and crawl into a dark corner trying to hide from yourself. Be mindful dam you. Wake up now, your feet are on fire.
For example, I believe that I am the one and only god and that everyone should bow down to me. Hail Smurf! Hail Smurf!Tigron-X said:Everyone believes in "God"; we just all understand it differently and all while not understanding God at the same time.
Smurf said:For example, I believe that I am the one and only god and that everyone should bow down to me. Hail Smurf! Hail Smurf!
Cut that out! Are you guys trying to get me PO'ed?? Here I am looking forward to a nice quiet Sunday off (do you remember honor the sabbath?), and you're cracking wise about who is god.amwbonfire said:*Hails*
What if multiple people think they're the one and only god? Then you have a problem. I think I'm the only god. Let's fight it out. First one to die, loses.
EDIT: Oh wait, we're both Gods. We can't die. Well at least I'm a god, so I can't die. But you can...
olde drunk said:...now stop talking about what god is or isn't and get the word out that i want you to love all of nature
love&peace,
god
Smurf said:For example, I believe that I am the one and only god and that everyone should bow down to me. Hail Smurf! Hail Smurf!
amwbonfire said:*Hails*
What if multiple people think they're the one and only god? Then you have a problem. I think I'm the only god. Let's fight it out. First one to die, loses.
EDIT: Oh wait, we're both Gods. We can't die. Well at least I'm a god, so I can't die. But you can...
olde drunk said:Cut that out! Are you guys trying to get me PO'ed?? Here I am looking forward to a nice quiet Sunday off (do you remember honor the sabbath?), and you're cracking wise about who is god.
Look, you can mess with your lives as if you were god, but we got to work together on these hurricanes and such. They only happen when your mass subconsiousnesses invite them.
now stop talking about what god is or isn't and get the word out that i want you to love all of nature and preach peace. humans are to far evolved to still mess with violence.
OK< now who's got the comics and my sports section?
love&peace,
god
Gokul43201 said:Aaarghhh ! A nature worshipper ! Heretic ! Pagan ! I shall set my knights upon thee and thine unholy cult !
Gokul43201 said:Aaarghhh ! A nature worshipper ! Heretic ! Pagan ! I shall set my knights upon thee and thine unholy cult !
olde drunk said:Cut that out! Are you guys trying to get me PO'ed?? Here I am looking forward to a nice quiet Sunday off (do you remember honor the sabbath?), and you're cracking wise about who is god.
Look, you can mess with your lives as if you were god, but we got to work together on these hurricanes and such. They only happen when your mass subconsiousnesses invite them.
now stop talking about what god is or isn't and get the word out that i want you to love all of nature and preach peace. humans are to far evolved to still mess with violence.
OK< now who's got the comics and my sports section?
love&peace,
god
Gokul43201 said:I think omnipotence leads to logical contradictions, in the same way that time travel does. That is one of the problems I have with accepting the existence of an omnipotent being.
If someone can lay down the axioms of a system of logic where omnipotence does not result in inconsistencies, that will help open me up to the possibility of the existence of an omnipotent being.
Tigron-X, cut out the holier than thou attitude if you want to contribute to this discussion meaningfully. You've shown that you don't possesses a sense of humor. So, at least stick to the topic of discussion. This is not a forum for you to preach.
Tigron-X said:The first thing I say you guys crack jokes to blow me off, and I'm suppose to find that funny?
Bro, I'm pretty sure you don't know me well enough to judge me and write me off as meaningless, humorless, and someone who thinks he's better than others.
So yeah, let's discuss this openly and not judge each other and respect each others view points.
Tigron-X said:How does omnipotence lead to logical contradiction?
By all means, I apologize for the misunderstanding myself. Glad that didn't have to go any further. Anyhow...Gokul43201 said:Agreed. If you'll forgive my tirade, we can set this aside and get back to the discussion.
Gokul43201 said:One has to first set up an axiomatic framework before addressing this. Answering the following questions (rigorously, leaving no room for doubt) would help set up the required framework.
Define 'omnipotence'. Can an omnipotent being perform tasks (do things) that are in violation of our currently accepted science ? Is there any task that an omnipotent being can't accomplish ? If there is, what defines this set of tasks ?
{Usually the process of setting up these kinds of axioms eventually hinges upon the question : "what is a task ?". And it would seem that the only way to avoid inconsistency is to answer "anything that can be done by the omnipotent being is a task" (as opposed to "anything you can think of"). However, this definition can be applied to you and me as well. Finite sets of tasks are easy to hadle . Certain infinite sets are also fine. However, when you get to the 'set of all sets', you hit the Powerset Paradox. If you don't agree with this paragraph, let's start with answering the questions of the previous one and see where that goes.}
Tigron-X said:How does omnipotence lead to logical contradiction?
holier than thou? Riiiiiiiiiight... Don't worry I'm on topic. It's just most lkely not what you want to hear. Maybe because I explained somethng using a metaphor, and you don't like that...?
The first thing I say you guys crack jokes to blow me off, and I'm suppose to find that funny? lol... and you say I don't have a sense of humor. Anyhow, I throw it back in your face, and you seem to not have liked that too much... yet because of that, I don't have a sense of humor and I have an attitude?
Am I following along your thought process correctly?
Bro, I'm pretty sure you don't know me well enough to judge me and write me off as meaningless, humorless, and someone who thinks he's better than others.
So yeah, let's discuss this openly and not judge each other and respect each others view points.
FaverWillets said:I'd like to jump in with my take on the concept of an omnipotent God as put forth by contemporary fundamentalist Christianity... here, the concept of a God that is ALL KNOWING...He is both the Alpha and the Omega knowing EVERTHING... such silly and useless things as all the hairs on your head, all that kind of nonsense... If we are to take this kind of "understanding" of what God is, then we are smack in the middle of paradoxes... here's a God that cannot be surprised, he knows it all, from beginning to end... he allows babies to be born deformed, or into extreme poverty in places like the Sudan, where reports have surfaced of torture and mutilations of babies and all other age brackets... or babies are born conjoined, twins that failed to separate in utero...severe mental retardation...incomplete physical development...the list goes on... try visiting a pediatrics ward of a teaching hospital... it'll make you think when you see the horrors of an incomplete nature meted out on babies and children...
The idea of this kind of God allowing these things to happen is another confusing aspect of belief... apologists come out of the woodwork to "explain" why God is this or that...there is NO documentation to support their enthusiastic "filling in of the blanks" to explain away the contradictions... back to the Alpha-Omega thingy... IF we were to accept this concept of God, then we would have to accept that this kind of God is a machine, or worse, has nothing to look forward to... He just watches it all unfold, even though he knows the outcomes of literally everything and even though he is all knowing...he just sits on his big holy ass and does nothing...[sounds like the HAL 9000 to me] ... not a very convincing description of an omnipotent Being, is it?
What is God? Whose God do we worship, and why? Are our god(s) more powerful than the Hawaiian gods were, or the native Americans? Why? Because we had a more advanced warfare technology than they did... How does a mightier military become an automatic Manifest Destiny; when God is invoked? When our society vanishes into the annuls of history whose god will be left standing?
Votaire was a very wise and courageous philosopher... he continually reminded us that the Emporer was wearing NO CLOTHES...
We have to define God...until we do, we have no god; we merely have the desire to have a god.
Tigron-X said:That's just the thing though. We can't completely define what we don't understand, let alone to fully conceive such a magnitude of existence. And the desire to have a god could be seen as the desire to understand God. You can define God as Life; "Alpha-Omega" is the samething.
As for "all the hairs on your head", who said that God sits there and counts them all, let alone sits up there in heaven or something? Many things in us and the world around us regulates how many hairs we have and such "nonsense". To say that God counts them would imply that God didn't know something, and that doesn't make sense if you just said that God is all knowing. I know you didn't say count them but that's the only thing I can think of that might have lead you to a paradox.
Why is it that when we say God is everything and then we try to imagine what God does, we separate ourselves from everything?
The way I see it is God created God's own existence and we're parts of that existence living out the whole.
The problem with defining God is that by doing so we would be essentially giving God a purpose, but can we give a purpose to the Being that gave us purpose?
Can purpose define purpose?
Oh yeah... and all the suffering is a result of our ignorance.
FaverWillets said:Today in America the prevailing, dominant "god" is of Christian. Tomorrow, who knows? God is ? Budhhist? Hindu perhaps? Whatever...
It was Jane Goodall who first observed chimpanzees in the wild adopt ritualistic behavior during a very torrid thunderstorm. What IS God? WHO is God, where did God come from if one really did exist? Whose god through all of history is really THE god? All this god talk is making my head explode. I don't see a need for any sort of god... it is a figment of our imaginations. Amen.
Tigron-X said:So you're saying that our understanding of "god" will change, and our understanding today is a figment of our imagination?
I would have to totally agree with you on that.
I decide for myself what's right or wrong. I use a sensible approach to determine whether a given act is right or wrong (good or bad); on the basis of whether is harms or helps and not on the basis of whether it will or won't need a confession to some person sitting in a wooden box.
Gokul43201 said:I was stopped on the road the other day, by three college students who tried to help me ebrace Christianity. After about fifteen minutes of discussion, I realized that these folks are being lied to, and now walk about the streets with their eyes closed to the beauty and accuracy of science. I was too gentle with them.
bd1976 said:p.s Not that I mean to suggest that murder is justifiable :-)
bd1976 said:This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. I'm sorry I realize I did't exactly define what I meant properly.
ok here goes,
assumption: There is no god. We evolved from animals. Evolution was started by a cosmic accident. We are animals. There is no God and no higher purpose to life.
Now most people would accept this. However most people would also say that killing is wrong. However surely if there is no god there is no right and wrong. There is no reason, for example, not to go around killing people. If we are just animals. Without ther concept of god there is nothing in which to anchor morality!