What's the Cost of Removing Secret Jesus Bible Codes from US Military Weapons?

[BobG]

Er, I'm not from the Middle East by any stretch, but rather American from generations of the same. I wasn't rightly ranting either though, just listing off some previously referenced facts drakin seems intent on ignoring.

It seems you missed my post shortly before yours where I mentioned that I'm an American. I'm not reacting out of fear either, I'm just not hip to the clash of civilizations mentality some are so fond of. Also, for the sake of possibly saving you a bit of typing in the future, I'm a man.

It finally dawned on me how Ivan was reading your name. Ky-leb, kyle-b, eb kyl, ebeneezer kylandermander, meh, what's the difference?

And don't feel bad. Personally, I have to go through life with half the people I meet saying my name backwards.

 

[dotman]

my whole point was that it's not that big of a deal. I feel like I can almost gurantee that Iraqi's are not afraid of Americans because they are christian on a crusade, let alone even think that is what America is doing.

It is a big deal, but not the way you're looking at it. The problem is not the Iraqis. The problem is the terrorist organizations. They are looking at America in the middle east as a holy war, and they are recruiting on this basis. This just gives them another piece of ammunition to win over one more mind and turn one more young person into a suicide bomber. When they are meeting with these youths, and they show them a captured American firearm with an inscription on it, and tell them what it means, well, that right there is solid evidence that a holy war is already underway, and the only thing they can do is fight back for their faith. They are able to show concrete evidence.

By putting these inscriptions on the rifles you are giving them another way to help recruit people to their cause, and for what? We gain nothing for the risk. It's ridiculously stupid, and has certainly put American lives in jeopardy.

And don't feel bad. Personally, I have to go through life with half the people I meet saying my name backwards.

How do you say 'G' backwards?

 

[zomgwtf]

It is a big deal, but not the way you're looking at it. The problem is not the Iraqis. The problem is the terrorist organizations. They are looking at America in the middle east as a holy war, and they are recruiting on this basis. This just gives them another piece of ammunition to win over one more mind and turn one more young person into a suicide bomber. When they are meeting with these youths, and they show them a captured American firearm with an inscription on it, and tell them what it means, well, that right there is solid evidence that a holy war is already underway, and the only thing they can do is fight back for their faith. They are able to show concrete evidence.

By putting these inscriptions on the rifles you are giving them another way to help recruit people to their cause, and for what? We gain nothing for the risk. It's ridiculously stupid, and has certainly put American lives in jeopardy.
How do you say 'G' backwards?

No. Iraq wasn't a major sponsor of terrorism and was definitely not a major sponsor of terrorism against U.S.A., if at all. Hussein had sponsored terrorist that were fighting against the governments of neighboring states i.e. Iran, Palestine... turkey. These groups were busy mostly fighting against their own government to be too bothered with launching attacks against America or any other developed nation for that matter.

A way I think that terrorism HAS made America look bad however is the Palestine-Israel fighting going on, which Hussein had a hand in as far as I know.

Also as far as I know the only other times that terrorism has been used against America from Iraq was during Bush Sr..

In short, the 'terrorist'(they are probably best called rebel) groups in Iraq probably don't care at all that the guns being used against them have inscriptions on them. They care that AMERICANS have invaded their country.
------------------

The youth are just from the general population. Do you think that the terrorist organization have breeding factories and indoctrinate these poor children from birth? Obviously not, maybe they do indoctrinate hate into them at a young age and bring them up with that but so what? An inscription on a gun will not change this, and the terrorist organizations do NOT need these inscriptions to show that America is a very christian state. IDC what people say about America's constituition or founding principals, it means NOTHING when you look at the reality of the situation in America.

So to conclude, it does NOT matter if there are inscriptions on the American sights, it will not increase or decrease recruitment to 'terrorist' organizations within any country. If these countries DO want to use religion they will use what their OWN religion says first, and foremost, and they can just use the well known fact that America is a christian state. So this means that the inscriptions on the guns are a rather small problem. Saying that they will cause more recruitment or feed the fire is just being pessimistic, it's not the inscriptions fault.

However I will agree that they should be removed it just seems rediculous that a weapon will have religious inscriptions on them.

 

[Phrak]

I'm pretty sure he knows what he is talking about, the markings on the sights being unconstitutional for the same reason posting the Ten Commandments on a courthouse is. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that he is an atheist?

That's the bit about "prohibiting the free exercise" of relgion.

And that's part about not "respecting an establishment of religion".

It goes both ways, "building a wall of separation between church and State" as Jefferson put it.

I have no idea how you come up with this rhetoric. Try supporting with some grounds in early American legal history. The Constitution is a short document. Read it and you won't find what you seem to believe it contains, that is only vaporware of modern oral tradition.

 

[Evo]

I have no idea how you come up with this rhetoric. Try supporting with some grounds in early American legal history. The Constitution is a short document. Read it and you won't find what you seem to believe it contains, that is only vaporware of modern oral tradition.

Honestly Phrak, what people thought over 200 years ago is neither here nor there.

We have to deal with the here and now. And religious references do not belong on military equipment, that goes for any references that push any agenda or belief. They should not be there.

 

[Nebula815]

Honestly Phrak, what people thought over 200 years ago is neither here nor there.

Just playing some devil's advocate here, but in Roe v Wade history played an important role in the decision (if I remember right).

We have to deal with the here and now. And religious references do not belong on military equipment, that goes for any references that push any agenda or belief. They should not be there.

I agree.

 

[kyleb]

I have no idea how you come up with this rhetoric. Try supporting with some grounds in early American legal history. The Constitution is a short document. Read it and you won't find what you seem to believe it contains, that is only vaporware of modern oral tradition.

I've read our Constitution numerous times, along with our Bill of Rights, which I know contains the statement "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". I also know that Establishment Clause has been cited as the basis for disallowing the promotion of of establishments of religion on government property, such as in http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=03-1693". That's not rhetoric, it's facts. If you know of some early American legal history or other facts to support your claim then I'd be interested in seeing them, but at this point I get the impression that all you've got is handwaving.

 

[zomgwtf]

Honestly Phrak, what people thought over 200 years ago is neither here nor there.

We have to deal with the here and now. And religious references do not belong on military equipment, that goes for any references that push any agenda or belief. They should not be there.

I agree. I think that the 'pushed agenda or belief' however is more-so on the personel of the American military than on the enemy.

I disagree however with anyone claiming it's dangerous for Americans and makes it look like a holy war etc.

 

[Cyrus]

I've read our Constitution numerous times, along with our Bill of Rights, which I know contains the statement "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". I also know that Establishment Clause has been cited as the basis for disallowing the promotion of of establishments of religion on government property, such as in http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=03-1693". That's not rhetoric, it's facts. If you know of some early American legal history or other facts to support your claim then I'd be interested in seeing them, but at this point I get the impression that all you've got is handwaving.

Wax on, wax off. Cyrus 01:20:10

 

[OmCheeto]

OmCheeto's references provide the perfect example - what does 2P3:16 mean, anyway? Does the P stand for Paul, Peter, or something else, such as Phillistines (seems a lot of the books were written by Paul with the title relating where Paul was when he wrote it). It takes some specialized knowledge or research to figure out where to go to get the "secret" revealed by the code. I think it's too obscure to be any kind of issue.

Finally...

2nd Peter 3:16 says that if you disagree with me, then you are an idiot.

Quranic verse 33:7 references Jesus. ie, he is a prophet of Islam. Hence, claiming that putting Quranic verses on the scopes would make a difference to Muslims makes no sense.

John 11:35. Well, it's the only one I can quote without screwing it up: ἐδάκρυσεν ὁ ἰησοῦς

 

[OmCheeto]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-rifles/story?id=9618791"
After ABC News Report, Trijicon Announces Plan to Remove Bible Codes from Gun Sights Provided to U.S. Military

Perhaps we can codify phrases by our founders, and send them into Trijicon.

BF:26 could be Benjamin Franklin's: Beer is proof that god loves us.

TJ:39 could be Thomas Jefferson's: Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.

I do so love secret messages.

 

[OmCheeto]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/21/AR2010012102637.html?hpid=sec-nation"
The statement does not provide an estimate on the removal costs. A company spokesman did not return a telephone call.

I'd say, along with the $5 twitter for Haiti, we all send a $1 twitter to our kids overseas.

They can use it to buy some bubblegum, and put an abc glob over the demon inspired secret codes.

Cuz you know that J$&%# smoochin' company is going to J@* us out of a whole M#$#(&#^! inspired load of bucks to dremmel those micro sized stainless steel 5 characters * 600,000 = about 12 million bucks!

Ok... I'm done proselytizing. Whatever that means.