Where Did I Go Wrong with Conserved Quantities in Double Pendulum Lagrangian?

In summary, the conversation discusses a discrepancy in the conserved values obtained when defining angles in the double pendulum problem. The equations and attempts at solutions are provided and it is discovered that varying one of the angles in the second case was the mistake.
  • #1
Physgeek64
247
11

Homework Statement


Hi, I'm doing the double pendulum problem in free space and I've noticed that I get two different conserved values depending on how I define my angles. Obviously, this should not be the case, so I'm wondering where I've gone wrong.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


For simplicity m=1 and r=1 in both cases for both bobs
If I choose to define both angles from the vertical then the Lagrangian is

## L=\dot{\theta}^2 +\dot{\phi}^2 +\dot{\theta}\dot{\phi}\cos{\theta - \phi} ##
for ## \theta \rightarrow \theta + \delta ## and ##\phi \rightarrow \phi + \delta ## ##f_{\theta}=1 ##, ##f_{\phi}=1 ##

Then the conserved angular momentum is

## Q= \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\theta}}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\phi}} ##
## Q= 2\dot{\theta}+\dot{\phi}+(\dot{\theta} +\dot{\phi})\cos{\theta - \phi} ##

If we define the upper angle from the vertical and the second angle as measured from the first then the Lagrangian is

## L=\dot{\theta}^2+\frac{1}{2}(\dot{\theta} +\dot{\alpha})^2+\dot{\theta}(\dot{\theta}+\dot{\alpha})\cos{\alpha} ##

The conserved quantity is then

##Q= 4\dot{\theta}+2\dot{\alpha}+3\dot{\theta}\cos{\alpha} +\dot{\alpha}\cos{\alpha} ##

However if I sub in ## \phi= \theta + \alpha ## into Q it turns out these are not the same. Wondering where I have gone wrong.. Many thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
I have worked out my mistake. ##\alpha## should not be varied in the second case. Thanks :)
 

FAQ: Where Did I Go Wrong with Conserved Quantities in Double Pendulum Lagrangian?

What is a conserved quantity in Lagrangian mechanics?

A conserved quantity in Lagrangian mechanics is a physical quantity that remains constant throughout a system's motion and is independent of time. It is derived from the Lagrangian, which is a function that describes the system's dynamics.

What are some examples of conserved quantities in Lagrangian mechanics?

Some examples of conserved quantities in Lagrangian mechanics include energy, momentum, angular momentum, and linear momentum. These quantities are conserved because the Lagrangian is invariant under certain transformations, such as translations and rotations.

How are conserved quantities related to symmetries in Lagrangian mechanics?

Conserved quantities in Lagrangian mechanics are closely related to symmetries in the system. Symmetries are transformations that leave the Lagrangian unchanged, and they result in a corresponding conserved quantity. For example, the invariance of the Lagrangian under translation in time leads to the conservation of energy.

Can conserved quantities be used to simplify the equations of motion?

Yes, conserved quantities can be used to simplify the equations of motion in Lagrangian mechanics. This is because they provide additional information about the system's behavior, which can be used to reduce the number of equations that need to be solved.

Why are conserved quantities important in physics?

Conserved quantities are important in physics because they represent fundamental properties of a system that remain constant over time. They also provide a powerful tool for analyzing and understanding the dynamics of a system, and are often used to make predictions about its behavior.

Back
Top