Where to Find a 24-Hour Wall Clock for Easy Timekeeping Across Timezones

[DaveC426913]

Wouldn't it always be opposite there? (AM here PM there ..)? or same I believe (PM here PM there)

At 7PM in Toronto it's 11AM in NZ.
But at 11AM in Toronto it's 3AM in NZ.

So no.

 

[Sorry!]

Couldn't you just favorite that website or something and whenever you would like to know the time just hop on and check?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=22

Or maybe even you could just change your computer time zone to be the time zone you would like to know... that way it is always showing.

 

[DaveC426913]

Couldn't you just favorite that website or something and whenever you would like to know the time just hop on and check?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=22

Or maybe even you could just change your computer time zone to be the time zone you would like to know... that way it is always showing.

Not all of us spend our waking lives at the computer.

 

[Sorry!]

Not all of us spend our waking lives at the computer.

ok?
I'm sure you're not planning on walking around with a wall clock or two watches or something.

 

[DaveC426913]

ok?
I'm sure you're not planning on walking around with a wall clock or two watches or something.

It will hang on the wall. In my house. Where it can be seen from yards away. Say, from the couch where the phone is.


If I didn't know you were yankin' my chain, I'd say you're a bit sheltered...

 

[Moonbear]

OK, if this were for me, I'd have no problem with mil time.

Thing about a wife is that one can't "do her an unsolicited favour" and then turn around and tell her she needs to be trained to use the thing.

By definition, it has to make her life easier, not harder.

No good deed goes unpunished. Have you shown her the pictures of the clocks and asked if that really would work for her? I agree with Borek that it would be harder to break the habit of reading a clock based on the usual positions of the numbers/hands than to learn to convert from 24 hour time to 12 hour time. But, since it's your wife who needs to use it, you might want to check before buying one.

You could get two cheap clocks. Get one with 12 hour time and one with 24 hour time. Use the one with 12 hour time to tell her what the clock time is, and then paste a new face of one half white and one half black on the 24 hour clock for day and night to use as the AM/PM clock, mounted just below it or next to it. Or, you could get a 24 hour clock for yourself, and just stick a post-it note in the middle of the other clock whenever it switches from AM to PM or vice versa.

 

[rootX]

At 7PM in Toronto it's 11AM in NZ.
But at 11AM in Toronto it's 3AM in NZ.

So no.

Sun here, moon there works for both cases :D

 

[mynameinc]

As long as I can have two of them within two weeks, for about $20 apiece...

Unfortunately, Google Sketchup does not work with Linux. I was going to incorporate a fourth (or third) hand, to point one way for AM and another for PM, using a system of gears, or a dial that was labeled AM and PM. You can probably find one anyway, but it will probably be mildly expensive.

 

[DaveC426913]

Sun here, moon there works for both cases :D

My wife has just woken up and made her coffee; it is still dark out (5AM). The special clock displays 11 o'clock.

Is it almost lunchtime in NZ or almost bedtime?

 

[cristo]

My wife has just woken up and made her coffee; it is still dark out (5AM). The special clock displays 11 o'clock.

Is it almost lunchtime in NZ or almost bedtime?

Almost bedtime, since there's no way NZ is only 5 hours ahead of you!

 

[rootX]

My wife has just woken up and made her coffee; it is still dark out (5AM). The special clock displays 11 o'clock.

Is it almost lunchtime in NZ or almost bedtime?

Yes there are some slight differences. But, it wouldn't be hard at all after 1-2 days. It would be easier to tell the time without even giving a thought. I believe this idea of clock is bit lame, and it is not impressive enough. A gift card and letting her decide what she wants would be better

 

[DaveC426913]

Almost bedtime, since there's no way NZ is only 5 hours ahead of you!

As someone who spent several years doing usability R&D, I am used to managers and execs thinking that anyone (i.e. themselves) are so easily able to accomplish some task. They think this because they assume ideal conditions for themslves and for the task (as you and many others are doing).

It is not until I show them videotaped sesssions of real users trying to accomplish real tasks in real environments that they realize just how fractured a real person's life is, and how much attention anyone task can be afforded. More importantly, how thoughtless some tasks need to be made in order for the task to actually help them, rather than tie up brain cycles better spent on other things.




Open and close buttons on elevators are the same size and look very similar. If I showed you both buttons and asked you to open the doors, you would easily identify the right button and press it. Easy-peasy.

But in real-life, you're not expecting to have to act, you're busy reading your paper, and suddenly an old lady gets her arm caught in the door.

You should not have to think about which button to press. You should not have to read the symbol on the button. Even if only for a second, this can require the full faculties of your brain (i.e. your visual acuity, pattern recognition (to tell the difference between two very similar buttons), and then your language intrepretion to determine what symbol results in the preferred action.)

No. It should be automatic. It should require no brain cycles to interpret.

How?

One example: The OPEN button should be MUCH larger than the close button, like the size of your palm. Almost zero brain cycles to turn need into action. (Not to mention that a bigger button utilizes large muscle groups and no coordination, rather than fine motor control and delicate finger-pointing aim.)

 

[DaveC426913]

But, it wouldn't be hard at all after 1-2 days. It would be easier to tell the time without even giving a thought.

Again, you are making assumptions about usage. And your assumptions presume a more ideal situation (i.e learnability through repetition) than reality.

What if she only gets or makes phone call once a week? Too rare to get used to anything.

 

[MotoH]

Revolutionary idea:

Buy regular 12-hour clock.
If it is AM where you are, it is PM where new zealand is.

or do the 24 hour clock, make each half have 1-12 on it, and have one side red for AM, black for PM.

 

[berkeman]

One example: The OPEN button should be MUCH larger than the close button, like the size of your palm. Almost zero brain cycles to turn need into action. (Not to mention that a bigger button utilizes large muscle groups and no coordination, rather than fine motor control and delicate finger-pointing aim.)

Great points, Dave. Great idea about the ergos of the elevator buttons as well. Those two freaking buttons have frustrated me lots of times.

As a supporting point -- In EMS, we deal with folks and equipment in very stressful situations. So yeah, we look to make the equipment and supplies as easy to use as possible. If something doesn't work easily and intuitively when you need iit, you spend time later to fis it so that it's easy to use it no matter how crazy the situation is. Even as simple a concept as how to close and position zippers on equipment bags (both zippers come together mid-seam). Or the convenience tabs on velcro straps holding your O2 tank in its jump bag...

 

[Borek]

As someone who spent several years doing usability R&D

That makes me even more surprised that you think 24h face will be easy to use when it works against life time reflexes.

Could be you know something about your wife I don't know

 

[DaveC426913]

Revolutionary idea:

Buy regular 12-hour clock.
If it is AM where you are, it is PM where new zealand is.

Yessir. That's certainly revolutionary. It hasn't been thought of since https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2520215&postcount=36"...

or do the 24 hour clock, make each half have 1-12 on it, and have one side red for AM, black for PM.

Yes.

That makes me even more surprised that you think 24h face will be easy to use when it works against life time reflexes.

Yes, that is the problem as defined : i.e. that intuitively knowing what time it is in a different part of the world is not a normal circumstance.

I can't do anything about having the problem, all I can do is find the best solution. Right?

I am certainly open to more intuitive solutions. Got any?

 

[rootX]

One example: The OPEN button should be MUCH larger than the close button, like the size of your palm. Almost zero brain cycles to turn need into action. (Not to mention that a bigger button utilizes large muscle groups and no coordination, rather than fine motor control and delicate finger-pointing aim.)

It should be opposite :). I would love where there is no open button at all. The elevator should be able to detect if some object is at its door hence not close the door. With big open button, I would never be able to reach my destination floor.

 

[rootX]

Again, you are making assumptions about usage. And your assumptions presume a more ideal situation (i.e learnability through repetition) than reality.

What if she only gets or makes phone call once a week? Too rare to get used to anything.

If it is used too often, you agree that any thing will work. If it is too rare, why wouldn't the person go to the computer and just find the time.

 

[berkeman]

I went to google images to see if I could find a pic of the wall map clock (that scrolls light/dark across a world map). The 2nd image in the first page is what I was thinking about, but boy, some of those other "world clocks" will make your head spin!

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=world+clock&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g3g-m2

.

 

[Moonbear]

It should be opposite :). I would love where there is no open button at all. The elevator should be able to detect if some object is at its door hence not close the door. With big open button, I would never be able to reach my destination floor.

They do that already, in two ways. If someone is already trying to get into the door, there is a sensor that stops it from closing and squashing the person. If they haven't gotten their hand into the door yet, if they just smack the up or down button before the doors finish closing, or even as they JUST close, most elevators will open the doors again. This actually gets very annoying at work on the elevator near the cafeteria at lunch time, because people will decide to wait for the next "less crowded" elevator, but keep pressing the button before the crowded elevator leaves, so the door keeps opening again.

 

[Moonbear]

No. It should be automatic. It should require no brain cycles to interpret.

I think that's the point people are trying to make though. Completely changing a clock face from what you are used to reading requires a lot of thought to interpret. Do you really LOOK at numbers on a clock? I have watches that don't even have numbers. I don't read the numbers, I just know intuitively where the hands point. If suddenly a hand pointing in the same place means a completely different time, you're very likely to misread it, or need more time to read it.

Digital clocks avoid that problem, but an analog does not.

 

[Borek]

Do you really LOOK at numbers on a clock? I have watches that don't even have numbers. I don't read the numbers, I just know intuitively where the hands point.

I have found it goes even further than that for me. When I want to estimate how much time I have left I prefer to look at standard face clock, not at digital one. Digital one requires subtraction, face with hands gives instant intuitive answer

 

[DaveC426913]

I think that's the point people are trying to make though. Completely changing a clock face from what you are used to reading requires a lot of thought to interpret.

The trouble is: it is unavoidable. The task at-hand is not simply a matter of "what time is it right now?", which is what most people are comparing it to when proposing their flawed solutions.

Digital clocks avoid that problem, but an analog does not.

Actually, this is true. I had not thought of it that way.

 

[rolerbe]

Open and close buttons on elevators are the same size and look very similar. If I showed you both buttons and asked you to open the doors, you would easily identify the right button and press it. Easy-peasy.

But in real-life, you're not expecting to have to act, you're busy reading your paper, and suddenly an old lady gets her arm caught in the door.

Hear, Hear! I NEVER get them right. Can't tell you how many times I have either closed an elevator door on someone when trying to 'help', or just could not choose in the required time. As far a elevators are concerned I don't even try any more.

 

[rolerbe]

If one were to design a completely new analog clock to avoid misinterpretation due to conflict with the existing 12 hour pattern, how about a linear (rectangular) display of numbers that are rotating orthogonal to the display directions. Also forget AM/PM and go with Day/Night. Day would be black numbers on white (daytime) background, night would be white numbers on black background. Horizontal red line across the middle of the rectangle = "now". Numbers move up. (should probably draw a picture).

This could be fairly easily constructed as a paper (e.g. tyvek) loop on rollers top and bottom. Then just a standard clock drive (i.e. correct gearing) to get it to run at the right speed.

I think that would be instantly intuitive.

I might add that to my construction project list just for the heck of it.

 

[rootX]

This actually gets very annoying at work on the elevator near the cafeteria at lunch time, because people will decide to wait for the next "less crowded" elevator, but keep pressing the button before the crowded elevator leaves, so the door keeps opening again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js7Nz6n6h6Y

 

[DaveC426913]

If one were to design a completely new analog clock to avoid misinterpretation due to conflict with the existing 12 hour pattern, how about a linear (rectangular) display of numbers...

It was Moonie who pointed out that digital clocks defeat the visual pneumonic of hand-angle = time. Once you break that, your brain is forced to actually read the time.

So, back to your idea: is it any better than simply using a standard digital clock? OK, well, I like the black/white aspect - that's very intuitive.

 

[berkeman]

It was Moonie who pointed out that digital clocks defeat the visual pneumonic of hand-angle = time. Once you break that, your brain is forced to actually read the time.

So, back to your idea: is it any better than simply using a standard digital clock? OK, well, I like the black/white aspect - that's very intuitive.

Oh, so now you're showimg favoritism for Moonie over me, eh. Well, this isn't the first time that this has happened. Hah. Like I care...

 

[berkeman]

Oops, forgot this

 

[sobrique]

Signing up, because I've been looking for a 'proper' 24 hour clock, as I fundamentally think it's just more natural - as you say, working across timezones, having a 'it's 5 hours later' on a 24 hour dial, is considerably more intuitive.
On my phone, I've got this app loaded:
http://terratime.net/clock.html

It does a 24 hour clock, with markings for daylight times, moonrise and moon set (and will let you do things like invert the clock, with either noon or midnight on top, and mark time in 'standard' or '24 hour' notation, depending on preference).
I'd love to find a wall clock that did essentially that.

However the best wall clock I've found - with this notion in mind - is from Seldec Maritime:
http://www.seldecpublishing.co.uk/clocks/
Specifically, the: "DAY & NIGHT 24 HOUR CLOCK".
The problem I have with military time, is I am still firmly fixed that noon is 'on top', because that's when the sun is highest in the sky. And most military clocks are thus 'upside down' to my way of thinking.

Yes Watches are also similarly - 24 hour, analogue and show times of sunlight, making it very clear with timezone offsets where 'in the day' they are. But they're a bit pricey, and not available as a 'wall clock'.

Edit: And somewhat foolishly, have now realized that '10' is last year, not this year, meaning this discussion is about a whole year out of date.
My apologies for the threat necromancy.