Whether setting up a additional circuit with separate grounding and an

[jagjeetsharma]

I am facing electric surge problem for last few years at my home. The surge mostly damages electronic gadgets. Both Honeywell and Belkin brand protectors have failed so far. The surge passes through these protectors and blows everything connected to them.

Now, I have been told that issue is because of faulty wiring, which cannot be replaced overnight. So, I have been advised to setup an additional circuit for electronic devices exclusively. As per them, I should have a separate grounding and a Residual Current Circuit Breaker as part of the new circuit shown in the diagram.

I request all of you to please comment whether recommended circuit will be able to give desired surge protection to the connected devices.

 

[Baluncore]

Welcome to PF.

I am facing electric surge problem for last few years at my home. The surge mostly damages electronic gadgets.

What is the nationality of the energy provider ?

What is the origin of the "surge", is it from lightning strikes, transmission line faults, or from an industrial user ?

 

[DaveE]

Do your neighbors also have this problem?

 

[Lnewqban]

..Now, I have been told that issue is because of faulty wiring, which cannot be replaced overnight. So, I have been advised to setup an additional circuit for electronic devices exclusively.

Welcome!
What if the faulty connection is located upstream the energy meter or MCB?
A professional electrician should be able to verify whether or not that is the case.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I am not a EE, but it seems to me that you don't want to start making changes before you know what has gone wrong.

 

[Tom.G]

Your proposed solution could help if the problem is at or after the MCB.

Some years ago, a friend had a similiar but not as serious problem.
Every time the refrigerator started the reading lamp at his chair would brighten.

After some tracing, we found the voltage surge still showed up at the input to the circuit breaker panel.
Thus showing the problem to be before the breakers, somewhere between breakers and the transformer on the power pole.

In your case it could still be around the breakers, such as a bad Ground/Common connection.

In any case, this is not a situation for an average do-it-yourself project.
Get someone with the needed equipment and knowledge to track it down. (Less likely to burn down your house or end up in a cemetery.)

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. Please let us know what fix works for you, we like to learn too!

 

[Vanadium 50]

One thing strikes me as likely to be unhelpful: the idea of multiple grounds.

If the two grounds are at the sane potential, how does that help?

If they are at different potentials, a current will flow, and the electrons will pick the path, not a person. How does that help?

 

[DaveE]

One thing strikes me as likely to be unhelpful: the idea of multiple grounds.

If the two grounds are at the sane potential, how does that help?

If they are at different potentials, a current will flow, and the electrons will pick the path, not a person. How does that help?

If the grounds are at different potentials, then you have a significant problem that usually isn't properly addressed by adding more grounds. That may just cover up the underlying problem. Such as excessive ground currents from faulty equipment (or maybe wiring insulation failures), or grounds that aren't patent or connected to the wrong thing.

Don't just do something, think first.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

Do your neighbors also have this problem?

No.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

I am not a EE, but it seems to me that you don't want to start making changes before you know what has gone wrong.

Civil repairing/renovation job to my house is pending and therefore, replacement of suspected faulty home wiring is likely to take place afterwards. Meanwhile, I need to protect my electronic gadgets from random surges. So, I have been advised to setup an additional circuit to power them. But I want to make sure that suggested circuit will actually serve the intended purpose. I mean if any protective device, say RCCB gets tripped often then it would not make sense. Once home wiring for existing circuits would be replaced, suggested circuit would be removed.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

What is the nationality of the energy provider ?

India

 

[jagjeetsharma]

What is the origin of the "surge", is it from lightning strikes, transmission line faults, or from an industrial user ?

Home wiring fault (as per service provider's engineers, after checking distribution lines and other electricity connections in the area).

 

[Baluncore]

It is hard to make surges in home wiring. They usually arrive from outside.

Do you have three-phase equipment on the premises, or only one single phase?

Do you have any motors with capacitors for power factor correction, maybe they are over corrected?

 

[jagjeetsharma]

What if the faulty connection is located upstream the energy meter or MCB?

Service provider's engineers have checked distribution lines and other electricity connections in the area, and told me that random surges are occurring due to faulty wiring at my home itself, i.e., after metering panel and MCB.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

I am facing electric surge problem for last few years at my home. The surge mostly damages electronic gadgets. Both Honeywell and Belkin brand protectors have failed so far. The surge passes through these protectors and blows everything connected to them.

Now, I have been told that issue is because of faulty wiring, which cannot be replaced overnight. So, I have been advised to setup an additional circuit for electronic devices exclusively. As per them, I should have a separate grounding and a Residual Current Circuit Breaker as part of the new circuit shown in the diagram.

I request all of you to please comment whether recommended circuit will be able to give desired surge protection to the connected devices.View attachment 352453

Relevant details are as follows:

• Electricity connection type: Single phase residential connection.

• Electricity supply as per service provider: 230 Volt 50 Hz Alternating Current.

• Phase to Neutral voltage ≈ 240 to 250 Volt.

• Neutral to Earth voltage ≈ 1 to 2 Volt (An unusually large variation was observed few days back: 48 Volt in the evening, then 32 Volt next morning, around 15-16 Volt few hours later, then 1 to 2 Volt as usual).

 

[jagjeetsharma]

Your proposed solution could help if the problem is at or after the MCB.

If you have knowledge of and access to any simulation software, that can unearth possible vulnerabilities in the suggested circuit, please check and rate advantages and disadvantages of this circuit.

 

[Baluncore]

Faulty single phase wiring cannot "blow things up", as there is no source of higher voltages within the building.

If the ground to neutral voltage is high, then you have lost the connection in the meter box between ground and neutral, or you have bad connections in the neutral wires. That will not produce a surge.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

In any case, this is not a situation for an average do-it-yourself project.

I fully agree with you. My purpose is to assure that this circuit would work, before it gets implemented.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

One thing strikes me as likely to be unhelpful: the idea of multiple grounds.

I know nothing about advantages and disadvantages of having multiple grounds.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

If the grounds are at different potentials, then you have a significant problem that usually isn't properly addressed by adding more grounds. That may just cover up the underlying problem. Such as excessive ground currents from faulty equipment (or maybe wiring insulation failures), or grounds that aren't patent or connected to the wrong thing.

Don't just do something, think first.

I know nothing about advantages and disadvantages of having multiple grounds. In case, the disadvantages outweigh advantages, then is it okay to reuse existing ground?

 

[jagjeetsharma]

It is hard to make surges in home wiring. They usually arrive from outside.

After checking distribution lines, and other electric connections in the area, the engineers from service provider have rules out possibility of an external source of surge.

 

[Baluncore]

After checking distribution lines, and other electric connections in the area, the engineers from service provider have rules out possibility of an external source of surge.

I do not believe them.

 

[jagjeetsharma]

Do you have three-phase equipment on the premises, or only one single phase?

Single phase

 

[jagjeetsharma]

Do you have any motors with capacitors for power factor correction, maybe they are over corrected?

No

 

[Baluncore]

Then where does the energy come from, that causes a voltage surge on your property?

 

[Vanadium 50]

If you want to "protect your gadgets", unplug them. Don't plug them back in until the problem is resolved.

While I am skeptical of some of what they have said, this requires professionals. That also excludes some guys on the internet who are truing to help, but can't even take a look around, much less measure anything.

 

[DaveE]

My purpose is to assure that this circuit would work, before it gets implemented.

I know nothing about advantages and disadvantages of having multiple grounds.

Hire an electrician. You aren't qualified to do this yourself.

 

[Baluncore]

My guess is that, the neutral between the power pole and your meter box, is intermittent open-circuit. When open circuit, the neutral current is returning through the earth-stake on the meter box, through local plumbing and neighbours earth-stakes.

An open neutral is a dangerous situation and needs to be fixed by the supply authority.

The surges are from ground currents in the Earth, due to switching, lightning, or magnetic storms.

Installing a new circuit will NOT fix the surge problem.

 

[berkeman]

Thread closed for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

In any case, this is not a situation for an average do-it-yourself project.
Get someone with the needed equipment and knowledge to track it down. (Less likely to burn down your house or end up in a cemetery.)

Home wiring fault (as per service provider's engineers, after checking distribution lines and other electricity connections in the area).

While I am skeptical of some of what they have said, this requires professionals. That also excludes some guys on the internet who are truing to help, but can't even take a look around, much less measure anything.

Hire an electrician. You aren't qualified to do this yourself.

Thread will remain closed. @jagjeetsharma -- hire a professional electrician to help you sort this out. We do not discuss dangerous activities here at PF.