Which calculator? Hp 50G vs Ti89 Titanium

[sixfor]

hp 50g

 

[surveyor]

Is TI-89 calculator legible for college exams?

 

[jtbell]

legible

I assume you mean "legal" (permitted, allowed). The answer to this question varies for different colleges, and even for different courses in the same college. It should be specified in the course's syllabus.

 

[Shajnush Amir]

This is exactly what I've seen. TI provides tons of input, including free hardware to the writers and to the book publishers, and gets their calculators' keysequences published DIRECTLY in the book. Some publishers even offer purchase of the calculators at a discount courtesy of TI.

I personally think it sucks. One, I have to buy my son what I would consider to be a HORRIBLE calculator, the prices of which are elevated because of the in-built demand, and the education suffers because not only is the text written such that the TI calculators are required to follow the flow, but far too much dependency is placed onto the calculator.

If the publishers were to write books that did NOT assume a particular calculator paradigm, or, for that matter, NO calculator paradigm, the students would, IMHO, fare much better than they do now.

(and I'm not being an old curmudgeon. I've had a HP-41CV since 11th grade.)

The fact that I had to learn how to use it, rather than being told "press Solve, then 0, then 100, then .1, then ")" then "ANS", actually helped me to understand what was going on BETTER.

Exactly, i am in year 12 now. I got hold of a HP 50g after reading this forum. At first I had some problems but I held on to it, I used to keep a Casio 991 ES with me for emergency. My friends teased me for getting a HP. I printed the advanced manual for quick reference. Now after about a year of use I a can do anyhing with it and to my delight my HP 50g outruns all TIs in my class. And RPN is just beautiful...

 

[Shajnush Amir]

I'm about to buy a new calculator for my son...mainly for his high school math...

I used to own a HP-41CV when I was a EE student about 20 years ago. It never disappointed me and helped me to survive those years.

As many others pointed out, those who use RPN never want to switch back to non-RPN calculators. I'm one of those, thus I personally prefer HP-50G...

The only other consideration...I found out that TI-89 is very popular for high school students and got a bigger user support groups than HP.

It is a hard decision to make...any suggestions?

I am in year 12 now. I got a HP 50g last year even though my class preferred TI. At first it was a bit difficult to cope with it and kept a Casio 991ES for emergency use. Than I printed the Advanced manual. and after a year of use I am quite proficient with my HP and I love RPN and it outruns TI.. If your son is willing to do a bit of work on the calculator other than studies it won't be a problem. Moreover, in the long run it helped me a lot... While going through the Advanced manual I came across some interesting topics and the exercises in the manual also helped a lot.

 

[Shajnush Amir]

TI users just don't get it. It's like when you learned cursive in 3rd grade. Yes, there was a learning curve, but once you learned it there was no effort in "translating" from printed letters. Afterwards you wondered why anybody would ever print. RPN is like that. Once you learn it, it's natural, much faster and easier. I can't even work a TI anymore - and wouldn't want to.

Last year I worked with our school's calculator math team that took dead last the year before with TI's. We pitched those in the trash and bought HP 35S calculators. The kids loved them - they hated the TI's. At the end of the semester they won 1st place and every one of them attributed it to the ease of the HP.

I, myself competed twice at the TX UIL state level with an HP 32e. I started out with a TI and man am I glad my math teacher showed me the HP way. I'm now an engineer and I use several HP's daily. I use a 35S on my desk. I use an HP emulator for windows and one on my Blackberry from Lygea. All I can say is give RPN a try - you'll love it or I'll gladly buy your HP from you.

I hope I had a HP loving teacher...

 

[lunabirhd]

I love my 89

 

[lunabirhd]

I have a problem. I hope one of you can help me with this. my TI-86 answers every problem with an E answer. example: 3*3=9E0 How do I make it stop doing this? This has always been a great calc till it started doing this. you can reply to my email lunabirhd@yahoo.com

 

[sixfor]

and i love my 50g

 

[lunabirhd]

Is TI-89 calculator legible for college exams?

i was never allowed

 

[lunabirhd]

Thanks if you were going to give me an answer but as soon as I posted...I figured it out.:-) Thanks anyways!

 

[AudreeArringt]

Hello FrogPad,

Thank you very much, your link RPN TI89 software. Now, I am inclined to give IT a try. But when I read elsewhere, there are several changes between the TI89 and TI89-Titanium and some software to run again planning titanium. Does anyone know if the RPN-(latest software update 2000) is compatible with the TI89-Titanium? Thank you very much... :) :)

 

[ToddA]

I had that keytime problem and it is fixable. Keytime defaults to some number around 1300. You need to decrease it. 400 is good. In RPN mode enter 400, then enter ->KEYTIME. In algebraic mode enter ->KEYTIME(400).

You can set that keytime value as a startup default by creating a program as follows, between the quotes - "<< 400 ->KEYTIME >>". Store it in the home directory as a file named STARTUP. Reboot cause STARTUP to be executed (also good for setting you own default system flags).

HP support should have answered this quickly.

Hey thanks, saw your suggestion and tried it! Typing works much better now! I'm just getting into programming my new 50g, my 48G+ of 13 years did not mix will with coffee, that was one very nice device! Keying in the keytime command on the stack did not work, (I must have missed something) but I did find it in the Catalogue, very slick!

 

[N6VC]

HP.

I have never owned or tried a TI.

I am a bit of a different user. I write custom RPN programs to determine all kinds of trig based lengths for framing wooden structures.

RPN and the stack have provided a good living for me and my family...being a techno-framer keeps me a cut above the rest.

HP just needs to offer a job-site friendly armored case, or ruggedized version...that would be a 10 out of 10 for sure.

Here is a link to an environmental case to use with the HP50
http://pssllc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=11

 

[N6VC]

Hello there Peoples :-)

JUST my 2-3 cents. My daughter went into Algebra 2 this year. All the kids in class has either a TI-83, TI-83+, 1 had a TI-89 and one even had a TI-NSpire. I have ALWAYS been a fan of HP, my first being a HP-21 and my father's being an HP-25C. I eventually replaced that HP-21 with my still working and useful HP-41CV with the math/stat pack.

Since its for my daughter it JUST had to be an HP. I got her an HP-50G open box, but new, complete with everything off ebay for $76.00, pretty good pricing. Here is what I found out the hard way. The school is TOTAL geared for the TI calcs. While the HP MAY do all that and more than any of the TIs it does not do it natively. Her teacher even tried to help her, to no avail, on how to make it do what the TI did automatically. I am sure that it can,the HP-that is, but my 10th grade daughter is not into programing her HP-50g nor does she really have time to learn, and me being a Civil Engineer makes programing very time consuming for me.

So for this year she demanded another calculator because with the summer homework pack she could not get her calc to do what she wanted, and she did try. We went to a local chain office supply store that had all the calcs the cheapest in the area. I tried to talk her into the TI-NSpire or the TI-89 and she was having NONE of that. She made me get her a TI-84+ silver edition ( includes downloads and SAT and ACT downloads and greater memory) she is now whizzing through her math homework where she was totally stymied with the much more powerful HP-50G. So if your looking at this from a kids point of view you have to consider that. In a world where a LOT of schools are geared for the TI, having an HP can cause pain. Now if somebody were to make a program to make your HP work JUST Like a TI-84s or 89s menus that would be really useful.

The end result is while the they are both great calcs., my preference being the HP-50G, it proved to a large hurtle for my daughter to climb and I ended up buy a new TI-84 silver edition for MORE money that the much better HP-50G. Totally ironic uh? I had to get her another less powerful calculator so she could function in class. Maybe in college it may be more useful but I am going to guess in 2 years MOST likely either of these calcs. will be totally outdated though I hope not. Once again JUST my 2-3 cents worth. Hope this helps somebody.

My oldest son needed a calculator for college. Unfortunately (or fortunately in this case), all the schools specified the same TI calculator. We couldn't find one anywhere, locally. The only calculator available was a HP48S at more than double the price of the TI. He had to have a calculator so we bit the bullet. This was the happiest accident we have made with the boy's education. William ran into the same problem with the instructors being unable to assist in learning to use the HP, but William put in the time and learned how to use it. The next two boys got HP's, too. 48GX's which they still use. William is a Civil Engineer with a PE, Allen is a Mechanical Engineer, and Joseph is a Software Engineer. Joseph started a HP special interest group in high school and the participants were a close nit group that excelled in math.
I have a HP50g with the computer cable. I don't program anything on the calculator, I do it all on the computer using the cable to load programs, modify the structure and do backups. I put all the data (including manuals) on the 2 GB SD card.

 

[Sankaku]

I love my HP50g and miss RPN whenever I have to use another calculator. Just to repeat what others have said, though - the HP has a much steeper learning curve than the TI. You have to be motivated to learn it properly.

It pays off in the long run, but for kids who just want the answer in the book, the TI is going to be much easier.

I wondered if anyone knew the story with the HP-40gs? It seems to be 90% of the 50g (for much cheaper) but doesn't have RPN. Aaack! It looks like they wanted a calculator for schools (no IR, no SD) to compete with TI, but it has a CAS built-in.

http://www.educalc.net/1826083.page
http://www.rpncalculator.com/p142302-a-comparative-guide-to-hp-graphing.cfm

 

[kbey]

then enter ->KEYTIME.

Many thanks for this hint, but I did not succeed. Something stupid, I suppose. But the calculator responds with SYNTAX ERROR. Can you make it for a non-sophisticated user?
Regards.

 

[kbey]

then enter ->KEYTIME

10 minutes later: The command is at the end of the CAT. I found it finally. Again many thanks for the hint. This was a very annoying feature.
Regards.

 

[foxfyr]

Pardon me for sounding like a curmudgeon, but it seems that 99% of this thread is "arithmetic vs RPN", which quite frankly is like listening to a Windows vs Mac debate from 20 years ago.

RPN offers distinct practical advantage in that it derives and displays intermediate values that can be stored and popped off the stack at will.- This is like listening to kids debate whether vanilla or chocolate ice cream is better, so just use the one you like. For those arithmetic users, as many say, RPN is more natural ONCE you become used to it. But if you don't want to mess with it, that's fine too.

Ultimately, that is not a reason to buy or not to buy a calculator.

I am familiar with the HP units going back to the HP41 series, but the product descriptions for both the TI89 (which seems to be more popular in the classroom) and the HP are woefully lacking in technical details and long on flowery rhetoric sure to impress moms who buy these things for their kids rather than an actual presentation of their functional capabilities/features.


It sure would be nice to see a larger focus on the capabilities of each calculator and a practical comparison of both with regards to both numerical and symbolic solutions, as well as a review of what functions are built in (and what downloadable solutions/programs are available) for applied problem solving in areas such as physics and engineering mechanics, thermo, etc., as after reading through this entire thread, I still have no better idea regarding this than at the beginning.

 

[Sankaku]

Well, here is a quick comparison:

http://www.technoplaza.net/calculators/49vs89.php

Remember when reading that the 50g is faster than the 49g and fixed a few of its other problems, but they are pretty much the same otherwise. The newer TI's are somewhat improved as well.

Long story short: Both are good.
TI = easier to use and more 'community' support.
HP = somewhat more powerful for certain applications and big geek-cred for RPN

Seriously, though, if you like RPN, go for the HP, it will feel more 'right.' If you don't want RPN and don't have time for the learning curve, buy the TI.

This will give you an idea of what people do with them:
http://www.hpcalc.org/
http://www.ticalc.org/

And just so Casio doesn't feel left out, there is the ClassPad 330:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_ClassPad_300
http://www.classpad.org/overview.html

Currently the HP is less expensive than the TI and Casio ($115 vs $145 USD). However, if you want pure power, just by a netbook ($275) and load it up with Maxima, SciLab/Octave, LaTeX, and R:
http://maxima.sourceforge.net/
http://www.scilab.org/
http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/
http://www.r-project.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_(software )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scilab
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Octave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language )

If you have an old curmudgeon's vision, the screen might be easier to read as well :-)

 

[Engineerarch]

I'm sorry George but lacking parenthesis around the 2, that expression reads "Negative 2 to the power of 4", and that's following the order of operation. NS Bomb is correct. But this is a matter of unclear expressions, not calculator function. I also find RPN far better than algebraic. For those of us hooked on it, it simply feels more logical and intuitive.

 

[jtbell]

A friendly tip: check the date on a post you're thinking of replying to.

George and nsbomb wrote the posts that I think you're replying to, more than four years ago.

 

[Engineerarch]

Hi JT, thanks for the advice, sorry about that! I rarely use forums but I'm comparison shopping for a calculator for my son who is a freshman in high school.

I'll get the hang of it someday

 

[Ele38]

Interesting discussion :)
My opinion is that HP is better. I used a TI89 for a physics project and it was good, but the 50g is more powerful, I think!
As I said this is an interesting discussion, but also weird. High school students with these powerful calculators?
I'm a student, in the last year of High School, I study Electronics&Telecommunications.
In my classes (in the whole Italy maybe), we are not allowed to use calculators in math hours, neither a scientific calculator, nor a basic 4-operators one. In Electronics class we are only allowed to use a basic scientific calculator, non-graphic.
If student used to rely on a calculator to solve derivatives or integral, they don't know how to solve them without!

 

[lurflurf]

^So what, if they don't know how to solve them without. I do not know how to pound in nails without a hammer. There is nothing wrong with being accustomed to using appropriate tools, nor is it worth while to spend time preparing to be without tools one is unlikely to be without.

Italy huh, I met this italian once, He said in Italy college students take three times as many major courses as in America and they already know what the Americans are learning from scuola materna.

 

[billthepe]

Hey guys, I'm an actuary student and this semester my important math courses are Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra I besides financial math II. I also have calculus 3-4, Linear algebra II, Prob. I-II, and statistics I-II in my future.

Anyway I'm getting a calculator and I can't decide between the Hp50G and the Ti89. I like the infrared and sd flash ports on the hp but I've seen many claim that the 89 is easier to use. Another thing I've noticed is there are more programs available for the 89.

I'm sure most of you know exactly what to look for in a calc. Pleas help me out here, thanks.

Hi. I'm a Professional Engineer...not an actuary. However I 'grew up' during the early programmable calculator days. When the HP-41 came out I immediately bought one. On the contrary, my employer supplied a TI SR-52 (I believe it was called). I used both for complex calculations and wrote rather lengthy programs for both.

First, the HP IS easier to do math and/or complex calculations. I have a lot of problems using the (what I would term) antiquated method of entry/function/entry = technique of calculating anything.

Second, the HP was far superior in ease of entry for programming, the number of keystrokes (which are executed automatically when running the program) it took to enter the 'same' program for each and last but not least the speed with which the program was run.

I freely admit that the new HPs (I have progressed thru the HP-48sx, the HP-48g, the HP-49+ AND the HP-50g...all of which I own) are NOT as easy to program, etc. as the HP-41 is...at least for me. I have reverted to an HP-41cx (the last and 'best' of the line) which I paid MORE for on ebay than ANY of the newer HPs can be bought for NEW! In fact, they go for more USED than a new TI-89! I think this supports the strengths of the original HP-41 programmable calculator.

My recommendation: give the 41cx a look as well as the two which are the subject of this thread. Unfortunately I personnally can't recommend a direct answer to your question but I hope this might help in your decision.

 

[billthepe]

Hi again.

After reading more of the threads, my reference to the 'TI SR-52' was in error. The SR-52 was an earlier (the first non-programmable) RPN calculator made by HP which my first employer (a consulting engineering company) made available...they were pricey...we only had 1 to share. I believe the programmable TI the IDNR bought was the TI-59 but that was along time ago. My prior 'evaluation' and comments are basically unaffected by my mistaken reference to TI. I apologize for the error.

 

[hisxmark]

I had a Ti89 Titanium. It works well. I bought an HP50G, (I like RPN!) intending to give the TI89 to my niece. I haven't had the HP a week and the ON button has quit working. I can turn the calculator on by removing and inserting the battery, but ... HP doesn't seem to provide support for this calculator.

HP has lost a customer.

 

[Sankaku]

I haven't had the HP a week and the ON button has quit working.

That is really frustrating. I am surprised that HP isn't helping at all as they say they have a 1 year warranty.

As much as I like my HP50g (and RPN), I have to admit that these days I just use a computer for anything complicated. Free software like wxMaxima almost renders any programmable calculator obsolete. Even for portability, my netbook is only roughly twice the size of the 50g and has a colour screen, browser, etc...

 

[chanwoo1964]

I know this is an old message but I have any problem getting -16 on my HP 50g
Set it up in the equation writer. Its much easier and you don't make simple errors.
Chan

 

[medwatt]

Today I decided to upgrade my calculator. I have used a Casio fx-115 and thought it to be great. After all I can do the complex calculations either in Mathematica or Matlab so what-the-hell. For some reason I got offered 2 of the discussed calculators here at the same time at almost a quarter of their listed prices. To cut a long story short I ended up buying the HP 50g and to say I bought myself a new toy is an understatement. I downloaded the manual and realized that there was another mode of calculation called the RPM. After doing just one complex example I realized how fats it was. It seems to coincide exactly with the way I look at arithmetic and calculations.
I'm still learning how to make good use of it and I'm loving every second even though I can still use Matlab or Mathematica !

 

[CalcNerd]

I have both and I like both. There are many that say that RPN by itself makes the Hp better! However, I feel a bit different. Admittedly, I do prefer RPN, but it is an acquired taste that comes naturally to some (and to those that it does, they seem to become extremely biased). Depending upon the type of math you do, RPN can save you some to a LOT of keystrokes. It should always save you some...

However, the Hp 50G is an inferior calculator to the Ti-89 in algebraic mode. It still has some math functions that aren't ported well from RPN to algebraic mode. Two obvious areas are units conversions (more like the Ti-89 ie awkward) and vector and matrix functions. In RPN mode these features are well implemented (after you configure calculator to behave like the older Hp 48G), not so much in algebraic mode. Hence if you do NOT know RPN or don't feel like its worth learning, you will be better served by a Ti-89.

The Ti-89 has a very good CAS that outputs answers more in line with textbooks. It also has some high end software that is included or can be downloaded that used to be sold retail for big bucks (ironically these used to be commercial software for the Hp 48G series, the preceding calculator to the HP 50G). 9 out of 10 high end graphing calculator users should just buy the Ti-89. It's drawbacks are Trig functions not directly on keyboard, hard to read LCD (because it is high contrast ratio, fonts were made small to use more of the screen). Units conversions poorly implemented in comparison to earlier Ti-86.

Both Hp and Ti now sell newer calculators than either of these. Ti sells a Ti nspire and Hp sells the Hp Prime. Both offer color screens and CAS too. I still prefer my older Hp 50G or Ti-89 to either of these.

The new Hp Prime is very nice to use for most calculating. Color touch screen, nice keyboard, FAST. It is an algebraic calculator with an RPN option. The RPN mode is more comparable to an Hp 32sii with solver than the Hp 50G for features and options.

The Ti nspire is ok. It boots up (10 seconds or so, annoying for a calculator). Keyboard is crowded (there are several flavors, mine is color with CAS, best keyboard at the time of this response). In short, it is a toy.. errr tool for math, not necessarily that good for learning anything else. It feels like a class room dedicated math tool for learning math and seems awkward (for me anyways) to use for general number crunching. If you have a high end math class, this may be an excellent tool.

If I were going back to school and taking math intensive subjects (but not math specific) ie engineering or physics, I might get a decent pocket calculator and use free or low cost software or apps for my high end needs. But all of the above are not big $$$ in comparison to other college expenses. Pick one and learn it well.

 

[Ashim]

To my experience you should go with TI-89.

 

[odobo]

u can't go wrong with the 89

You can go wrong with the 89. If he is going to be doing complex calculations, then the TI89, is slow, cumbersome, and inefficient.

 

[cdp1210]

Wow, this thread is classic...-2^4=16 lmfao... using a CAS calculator and not understanding 101 math is just wrong. Then argue it...? The classic forum fooI. I know this is an old thread but I wanted to add my experience since this can be see by others with the same question or someone looking for a cas calculator.
I have had an 89 for a few years and really don't have any complaints. You can't go wrong with an 89. Writing your own programs is easy and TI even has lessons and activities on writing programs for advanced calculations using the lagrange multipliers, vector calculus and more.
I did however recently purchase the Nspire Cx Cas and it is in my opinion better. The 89 was better than the Nspire for some time, but recently the Nspire surpassed it with more features faster cpu and more memory. The color screen is very nice and in 3d graphing could be a huge help if your taking cal3/multivariable calculus. I took cal 3 with the 89 and when viewing surfaces in 3d it took forever to load and wasn't very easy to see the surface clearly depending on what it was.
I never used a 50g but i do hear good things, I am under the impression that it has an enormous amount of built in functions for math and science, you could create the functions yourself in the 89 or download apps with them, but I think the 50g comes with more as a standard feature. If you're on a budget 50g is cheaper and seems like the best bang for your buck now days. I would pick Nspire over a 50g or 89 but if you decide to go with the 89 I can assure you that you will love it. The 89 is easy to use, it's design and function really makes sense, you can jump around the screen quickly to copy, paste, select... In some ways it is better than the Nspire but overall I think the Nspire has surpassed it now.