Answer my questions, please, the other intelligent individual is really having fun with this discussion. This member told me that, just recentlyheman said:
(no wink to heman)marlon said:
heman said:
). Yeah, this is like "a student taking it back at the teacher"-thing...Well, you guessed right buddy, run away, but do realize : marlon said:Ohh c'mon, a great communicator is able to make his/here point crystal clear, in just a few lines. Do not write long answers because i do not read them anyway, unless they are about science or a homework problem. Just give me a short list of differences or reasons with the main justifications as to why you list these reasons.
marlon
ps / YES and i DO think you are trying to get out because, let's face it, you are waaaaaaaaayyy over your head here. You are fighting with your supreme idol (i am referring to myself here
i will make you an offer you cannot refuse :
"whenever i feel your heat or whenever i spot you around the corner, i will not hesitate, ; cause nomatter what, you will not get into my way ; ... ;i assure you brotha : When you least expect it : YOU ARE GOING DOWN"
outsider said:
I used to get grouchy a lot too, but it just leads to stomach upset and high blood pressure. It's also a nasty side-effect of graduate school. )heman said:
How does this manifest itself, according to you ? Give me examples, please. try to be more specific. You are just writing down a general property here that is not even well defined. You see my point ?
Coordination of what. Link me to some posts that illustrate this, after you have defined coordination properly.
What is egoistuic to you ? What prejudice have i been guided with and in what post ? I am talking about posts to you, ok ? Let's keep it personal
Same remarks as above
Where have i done that ? Be sure not to mix asking for verification with complicating things.
How do you judge 'patience' upon reading text-extracts ?
ok, i give you that
What on Earth is that ?
Aren't you mixing 'warm' language with 'erotic' language.
Doesn't that contradict with me being, err 'penetrative'
Yes, i know
How can this be, since i let myself be guided by prejuidice
what is that ? Really ? Tell me, how do you quote ?
I'd like to see this thread turn away from trying to name names (as others have also attempted to steer the thread away from that) and more toward identifying what makes someone a good communicator so that those who wish to become good communicators can learn to do so. This is what marlon is trying to push for, and I agree it's more constructive than just naming people you like for one reason or another without good supporting reasons for why you think they are good communicators. Afterall, there are a number of people here who are excellent communicators, a lot who are good communicators, some who communicate well enough to get their message across even if it could be made clearer, and some who just confuse the heck out of all of us. It's not going to do any good to try to list our entire membership into those various categories.loseyourname said:
Moonbear said:
There are two primary qualities I see here in those who I consider good communicators (which may or may not be the same people heman considers good communicators). One is simply the use of good grammar, spelling and word-usage. I especially appreciate this from those who did not grow up speaking English, and for whom I know it takes more effort to select words properly (though whether I appreciate it or not is less relevant than that it is effectively used). It just makes a post more readable.
The second, and more important, is to clearly state a point and be able to back it up and support that point. Especially in the science topics (less so in GD where it's pretty laid back and chit-chatty), you should be able to clearly identify the primary point and supporting evidence, the secondary point and supporting evidence, the tertiary point and supporting evidence, etc., and all of those points should revolve around some sort of "thesis" or overall statement of purpose.
I really don't agree that approachability is that important, especially in the context of a forum like this (it might be an issue if you are seeking information in person and being intimidated prevents you from asking your questions, however that's more of a problem for the person asking the question than for the one who is expected to answer). Afterall, questions posted here should not be directed to anyone person, so it's really not relevant if you feel one is or is not approachable. If they do respond to your question, the important thing is whether or not they have effectively answered your question or otherwise provided information that helps to clarify the question. For example, marlon might be grouchy (sorry to keep picking on you marlon), but that doesn't make his answers any less correct or less informative or less understandable. Even in this thread, he's actually trying to be helpful to heman by asking him to explain his reasoning and back up his statements. In essence, he's challenging heman to improve his communication, both by leading him through the questions he should ask himself, as well as by asking him to identify what it is that makes someone a good communicator so he can learn how to do that too.
On the other hand, in this particular post, I may be demonstrating poor communication skills by making far too many points all at once. It gets overly long and people's attention drifts. (I'll just claim I'm doing it on purpose to make my point.
I'll just make one last point regarding approachability/likeability vs. content. It worries me to see people confusing the two, because this is how we wind up with people in political office who have won elections only because people like them or find them overall appearing more approachable and mistake that for good communication over and above the content of their speeches. Though, this works both ways. For those who have good points to make, and have the ability to articulate them, the manner in which they are delivered does affect how well they are received by your audience. So, while content trumps style, style is not entirely unimportant, especially when your audience is not a technically oriented audience; but style doesn't have to be synonymous with being likeable or approachable.
I hear you ! I hear you fine...Moonbear said:
or is it Auuoich ??Yes, and i know his will thank me for that. He already wants to go into science discussions with me
My friend Jozef R. will be happyMoonbear said:
Fried Egg said:
I wonder why you did not attribute this quality to marlon as well? This is precisely what he's doing in this thread is to continually ask you for clarification of your definitions in order to proceed with the discussion. So, yes, before one can answer a question, one must understand the question, so this is a reasonable skill and is demonstrated by many here.heman said:
I don't understand this term at all in the context of communication. You're going to have to clarify what you mean by coordination.
All three of these are unrelated to communication skills. These are simply personal traits and are also somewhat relative, and can be colored by your own prejudices about someone's personality. This traits may make someone a better or worse listener or advisor, but they have no influence on communication.
This can work both ways. While it would be poor communication if someone took something simple and made it so complicated as to be incomprehensible, if someone has oversimplified a concept, it would be good communication for someone to expand up on it and point out the complexities that have been overlooked.
Again, these are all personality traits, and are totally unrelated to communication. Indeed, sometimes patience can interfere with communication when a more direct point that cuts to the chase is appropriate.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Perhaps you mean a more conversational tone? That can be a good communication skill in terms of keeping the audience's attention, but that's usually more important in oral communication rather than written communication. In written communication, more formality can be expected.
This is another one you'll have to clarify, because it seems like a rather subjective statement. Perhaps you just have a greater interest in the topics I discuss than those marlon discusses, thus you find them more stimulating.
The entire post is about what's effective, so this really doesn't mean anything other than to demonstrate you've formed a conclusion in advance of evaluating the evidence.
These may be part of the message, but they are not part of what defines how they are communicated to you.
Yes, something well communicated presents a clear argument, however, I'm not sure that's how you intended this descriptor to be used here. Argumentative alone isn't particularly meaningful, it's all about whether you make that argument well or poorly.
Ahh, sadly, with the MTV generation, this is more important than it should be. It seems in order to get through to people nowadays, one must do a song and dance routine and provide entertainment or else short attention spans drift elsewhere. Though, what is considered entertaining depends upon one's audience. I would prepare a very different presenation to a group of high school students than I would to a group of professional scientists. It's sometimes difficult to respond in a way that appeases everyone around here since we have such a range of ages and backgrounds among the membership. So, this too is probably very subjective.
There should be no winners and losers. Everyone will be a winner if they learn what it is that makes someone a good communicator and takes away that message to develop their own skills in communication.
While I may be flattered by your support, I'm afraid I still don't know what coordination has to do with anything, and surely luck is not a skill. Luck does not make one a good communicator, and I'm certainly not a lucky person anyway, so if it is important, I'm afraid I'd fail on that point.
I hope you don't feel it is not constructive to address marlon's arguments here. It would not be a waste of your time to heed his suggestions and give serious thought to what he is asking you.
Stimulating language that gets me warm? That clinches it. I vote for Moonbear, too.
Well, there you go, I gave another prime example of poor communication (my own).loseyourname said:
This reminds me of the comparison that was done by some news show. They had two models/actresses teach elementary students for a day as substitute teachers and then asked the students which one was the better teacher (they both taught similar lesson plans and acted very warm and friendly). The catch was that they dressed one up very attractively, put nice make-up on her, attractive clothing, she wore her hair down and long, and she just generally looked very pretty, young and fresh; the other one they dressed very unattractively, used make-up to make her appear to have bags under her eyes, put her hair up into an unattractive bun, dressed her in ugly, ill-fitting clothing, and generally made her look unattractive, old and tired. Over and again, the "attractive" teacher was rated as the better teacher. I've seen this happen in college courses too when it comes time for teaching evaluations. All the students loved the two most attractive (and youngest) professors in the general biology course I TA'd (I sat through all their lectures and know the old professor who wore sweatpants and looked a lot like Papa Smurf actually gave the most informative and well-organized lectures), one was a fairly voluptuous female professor, and the other a physically fit male professor (and of course their "approval ratings" differed among the male and female students). I keep in touch with the male professor, and he's noted that ever since he started going gray, his teaching evaluations have gotten worse.BobG said:Stimulating language that gets me warm? That clinches it. I vote for Moonbear, too.
(Fortunately, I don't take this discussion too seriously or I couldn't have said that)
heman said:Who do you think has got the best communication skills on PF!
These are the names which come to my mind,
Tom Mattson
Clausius
Astronuc
Moonbear
ZapperZ
I sincerely like Moonbear for her approachibility and the genre in which she gets her point right through and Astronuc for being unique and ready for everything!
And when it comes to being funny,nobody beats Danger!
What do you think??
), I am very satisfied of you heman thinking I deserve to be in your list. And I feel so because I was not aware I am understable when I talk/write in english. I thought many of yours didn't understand the 70% of sentences I write here, but this have lived me up. ) to be understable by others, and 2) saying right things from the technical point of view to be seen by others as someone who seems to know something about what he is talking about. For me it is too much easier to talk about engineering, physics or dating in spanish, but doing so in english is much difficult. Is that just due to physical appearance or non-verbal communication.Moonbear said:This reminds me of the comparison that was done by some news show. They had two models/actresses teach elementary students for a day as substitute teachers and then asked the students which one was the better teacher (they both taught similar lesson plans and acted very warm and friendly). The catch was that they dressed one up very attractively, put nice make-up on her, attractive clothing, she wore her hair down and long, and she just generally looked very pretty, young and fresh; the other one they dressed very unattractively, used make-up to make her appear to have bags under her eyes, put her hair up into an unattractive bun, dressed her in ugly, ill-fitting clothing, and generally made her look unattractive, old and tired. Over and again, the "attractive" teacher was rated as the better teacher. I've seen this happen in college courses too when it comes time for teaching evaluations. All the students loved the two most attractive (and youngest) professors in the general biology course I TA'd (I sat through all their lectures and know the old professor who wore sweatpants and looked a lot like Papa Smurf actually gave the most informative and well-organized lectures), one was a fairly voluptuous female professor, and the other a physically fit male professor (and of course their "approval ratings" differed among the male and female students). I keep in touch with the male professor, and he's noted that ever since he started going gray, his teaching evaluations have gotten worse.
So, the only conclusion I can draw from this is that I'm more attractive than marlon!
Moonbear said:This reminds me of the comparison that was done by some news show. They had two models/actresses teach elementary students for a day as substitute teachers and then asked the students which one was the better teacher (they both taught similar lesson plans and acted very warm and friendly). The catch was that they dressed one up very attractively, put nice make-up on her, attractive clothing, she wore her hair down and long, and she just generally looked very pretty, young and fresh; the other one they dressed very unattractively, used make-up to make her appear to have bags under her eyes, put her hair up into an unattractive bun, dressed her in ugly, ill-fitting clothing, and generally made her look unattractive, old and tired. Over and again, the "attractive" teacher was rated as the better teacher. I've seen this happen in college courses too when it comes time for teaching evaluations. All the students loved the two most attractive (and youngest) professors in the general biology course I TA'd (I sat through all their lectures and know the old professor who wore sweatpants and looked a lot like Papa Smurf actually gave the most informative and well-organized lectures), one was a fairly voluptuous female professor, and the other a physically fit male professor (and of course their "approval ratings" differed among the male and female students). I keep in touch with the male professor, and he's noted that ever since he started going gray, his teaching evaluations have gotten worse.
So, the only conclusion I can draw from this is that I'm more attractive than marlon!
I am sorry if i am hurting you)I find his face to very expressive and a kind of confident look.I think when it comes to expressing emotions like anger,appreciation,attraction,aggression i find Marlon to be far ahead of most Pf members.He behaves very very naturally and intellectually.Its very obvious that you seem to be thinking like that because you are gorgeous,but believe me i formed a very nice image of you in my mind much before seeing your pic.The day i saw yours pic,i tried to know more details about you and obviously browsed through the site of yours university.When i told you this,you must have thought like i am an lusty(?) guy or rather formed bad impression about me but i was/am honest.Clausius2 said:Heman,
Although I have been mentioned here only ONE time along these thirteen pages (have you realized the great amount of traitors over here??
Writting here for a foreigner joins two main challenges: 1) writting with the correct gramatic (mine's one is dramatic more than gramatic
By the way, I am not going to give off any list, we know there are many people over here, each one in his specialized field of knowledge (and others without any field) who are very good communicators, some times to have a fun time with them, some times to learn from them.
)heman said:I guess you must be having lots of girl friends because you too deserve to be on a top of tower from where an beautiful girl must take you away.(
)If you weren't on a tower, I'd mention about you in my list.Clausius2 said:Very blushed (
Actually I have an acceptable number of female friends, and some of them are very very pretty, but the main thing I do when I am with them is talking about her/my problems. I think I am a good listener. No more. But I have decided to wait on my tower, although sometimes I go for a walk over there...
Lisa! said:If you weren't on a tower, I'd mention about you in my list.
I hope so. But well I'm not sure about the future.Clausius2 said:I could sleep without being in your list, madamoiselle.
) Can I explain to you later?Lisa! said:Sorry I have to sleep now. :zzz: :zzz:(only for 2 hours
... Those heart eyes scare me... What 'jobs' are you thinking of?Clausius2 said:
Smurf said:
Smurf said:
Tell us, please... Lisa! said:
Why do you think I'm on a tower?Clausius2 said: