Why can't quantum crypto be broken this way

In summary, quantum cryptography depends upon the notion that a sender transmits photons of known polarity, then the receiver choses random polarizations to filter the incoming transmission through. As each photon is either accepted, therefore telling the receiver that he correctly guess the sent polarity, or rejected, the receiver takes note. At the end of the first stage, the receiver tells the sender which photons he received and, with both of them knowing the polarity of those photons, they have successfully communicated n bits of information, encoded as the polarities of the photons that were received.
  • #1
foodini
5
0
Quantum cryptography depends upon the notion that a sender transmits photons of known polarity, then the receiver choses random polarizations to filter the incoming transmission through. As each photon is either accepted, therefore telling the receiver that he correctly guess the sent polarity, or rejected, the receiver takes note. At the end of the first stage, the receiver tells the sender which photons he received and, with both of them knowing the polarity of those photons, they have successfully communicated n bits of information, encoded as the polarities...

Here's my problem: the whole thing depends upon the assumption that a listener who attempts to determine the polarities of photons en route is destroying information - he has to send photons through a polarizer to determine their orientation. He cannot observe the communication and ensure that the intended receiver gets everything he was sent.

What if the listener sends the transmission through a stimulated emmission medium? Stimulated emmission evidently gives you two exit photons - each with the same qualities as the input photon - direction and polarity included. As a listener, I could copy the photons in transit, giving me plenty of spares to determine the exact orientation of the origional, then send off a copy to the intended receiver. Voilla - I snoop on the backchannel where the receiver tells the sender what he received and I know exactly what their shared secret is.

The only problem I see with this is if a pair of (stimulated) emmitted photons are either entangled or their polarity is not related to the stimulating photon's polarity, which is contrary to what I've been able to discern. Where am I (or the QC guys) wrong on this?

This is right at the bleeding edge of my understanding of quantum. Please keep the replies at the appropriate level of pedantics. Thanks...

rOn
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
foodini said:
What if the listener sends the transmission through a stimulated emmission medium? Stimulated emmission evidently gives you two exit photons - each with the same qualities as the input photon - direction and polarity included. As a listener, I could copy the photons in transit, giving me plenty of spares to determine the exact orientation of the origional, then send off a copy to the intended receiver.

Well, first of all, how would you know you have determined the exact polarization ?

marlon

I wrote a text on this in my journal. I suggest you check it out.

ps : it is not polarity but polarization...

When eavesdropping, you have a 50/50 % chance to chose the right direction out of two possibilities (this is maximal chaos , right !).
 
  • #3
https://www.physicsforums.com/journal.php?s=&journalid=13790&action=view

Read the faster then light communication entry

marlon
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #4
marlon said:
Well, first of all, how would you know you have determined the exact polarization ?

If a QC communication uses 4 different porarization directions (0, pi/4, pi/2, 3pi/4) and you make 4 copies of the photon, you can check each of these. Whichever one passes tells you what the original was.

marlon said:
ps : it is not polarity but polarization...

Doh. Just got too much into the details and blew the english...

marlon said:
When eavesdropping, you have a 50/50 % chance to chose the right direction out of two possibilities (this is maximal chaos , right !).

Usually, 4 directions are used - it makes it easier to detect if you have an eavesdropper, among other things.

I'll look at the doc you linked in your second post and see if it's helpful to me... thanks...
 
  • #5
marlon said:
I'LL MAKE YOU AN OFFER YOU CAN'T REFUSE :

CONFUTATIS MALEDICTIS
FLAMMIS ACRIBUS ADDICTIS
VOCA ME CUM BENEDICTIS

That would be the Mozart Requiem. God I'm such a geek - not only do I recognize the blasted thing but I can (very roughly) translate it.

*sigh* back to work.
 
  • #6
foodini said:
If a QC communication uses 4 different porarization directions (0, pi/4, pi/2, 3pi/4) and you make 4 copies of the photon, you can check each of these. Whichever one passes tells you what the original was.

No, there are indeed 4 possible polarizations. However, when measuring such polarizations you need to make a choice. Either you measure the horizontal and vertical polarizations or either you measure the diagonal polarizations. However, once you made your choice (50/50 % chance of being correct) you can either be right or wrong. I mean, the photon that you measure will be polarized according to ONE of the TWO possible sets of polarization. You cannot measure both sets at the same time. If you are wrong, you disturbe the message because the polarization will have jumped from one direction of set 1 to another direction of set 2. Eg : from vertiacl to diagonal...


marlon

ps : it is not only the Mozart reqium although this text is also sung there. It is just an extract of the reqium-mass which has a fixed content and structure. Though i must say that some composers have changed the words. You ain't no geek, you just have lot of culture :approve:
 
  • #7
marlon said:
No, there are indeed 4 possible polarizations. However, when measuring such polarizations you need to make a choice. Either you measure the horizontal and vertical polarizations or either you measure the diagonal polarizations. However, once you made your choice (50/50 % chance of being correct) you can either be right or wrong. I mean, the photon that you measure will be polarized according to ONE of the TWO possible sets of polarization. You cannot measure both sets at the same time. If you are wrong, you disturbe the message because the polarization will have jumped from one direction of set 1 to another direction of set 2. Eg : from vertiacl to diagonal...

Okay, it sounds like we're moving in the right direction. It is true, then, that one can make however many identical copies of the photon they like, but something between that action and passing them through different polarizing filters is my problem? I suspect that separating them into different streams for testing would cause an issue...
 
  • #8
foodini said:
Okay, it sounds like we're moving in the right direction. It is true, then, that one can make however many identical copies of the photon they like, but something between that action and passing them through different polarizing filters is my problem? I suspect that separating them into different streams for testing would cause an issue...


Cloning ?

You cannot make many copies of one atom. This is forbidden by QM because the actual copying itself would alter the state of the atom that you are copying. So you can forget about making many copies. Here is your biggest problem.

regards
marlon

In other words : when trying to copy, you can ensure yourself from the fact that the copied atoms are exact duplicates of one and other
 
  • #9
marlon said:
Cloning ?

You cannot make many copies of one atom.

AGH! No! Stimulated emission of photons - as in the effect used to generate a coherent laser beam.
 
  • #10
foodini said:
AGH! No! Stimulated emission of photons - as in the effect used to generate a coherent laser beam.

Indeed, in stimulated emission the photons are exact copies of one and other. The first photon triggers the emission of a second photon with the same properties as the first photon. However this laserbeam is not the same as a bunch of photons of which you can "take one photon at the time"

marlon

And remember you choice of polarization is also a very big problem. Would you trust on a "guessing-mechanism" that has the same reliability as flipping a coin four times in a rowe and guessing the outcome ?
 
  • #11
foodini said:
Okay, it sounds like we're moving in the right direction. It is true, then, that one can make however many identical copies of the photon they like, but something between that action and passing them through different polarizing filters is my problem? I suspect that separating them into different streams for testing would cause an issue...

Actually, I don't believe it is true that you can clone a photon with 100% accuracy. Unfortunately, I don't recall the exact details but IIRC the stimulated emission process has some probability of producing a clone, and another smaller probability of not producing a clone.

[add]
I found some links on the topic
http://www.duke.edu/~mag18/cloning/Resource%20Links.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #12
pervect said:
Actually, I don't believe it is true that you can clone a photon with 100% accuracy.

That is correct

marlon
 

Related to Why can't quantum crypto be broken this way

1. Why is quantum cryptography considered unbreakable?

Quantum cryptography is considered unbreakable because it utilizes the principles of quantum mechanics, specifically the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which states that it is impossible to measure the exact state of a quantum system without disturbing it. This makes it impossible for an eavesdropper to intercept and decode the information being transmitted without being detected.

2. Can quantum cryptography be broken using supercomputers?

No, quantum cryptography cannot be broken using supercomputers. Supercomputers are limited by classical computing principles and are unable to perform the complex calculations required to break the encryption of quantum cryptography.

3. Is quantum cryptography vulnerable to attacks from new technologies?

No, quantum cryptography is not vulnerable to attacks from new technologies. The security of quantum cryptography is based on the fundamental properties of quantum mechanics, which are not affected by advancements in technology.

4. Can quantum cryptography be broken by finding flaws in the system?

No, quantum cryptography cannot be broken by finding flaws in the system. The security of quantum cryptography is based on the laws of quantum mechanics, which are well-tested and understood. Any flaws in the system would have already been identified and corrected.

5. Are there any potential weaknesses in quantum cryptography?

While quantum cryptography is considered unbreakable, there are potential weaknesses in the implementation of the system. These include technical errors, human error, and vulnerabilities in the hardware or software used for quantum communication. However, these weaknesses can be mitigated through proper protocols and rigorous testing and verification processes.

Similar threads

  • Quantum Physics
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
40
Views
4K
  • Quantum Interpretations and Foundations
2
Replies
52
Views
2K
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
4
Views
835
Replies
41
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
13
Views
6K
Replies
24
Views
4K
Replies
5
Views
2K
Back
Top